The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:12:02

I can vamp through the chords, I can do simple rolls, but there are no breaks being proffered such as in a bluegrass jam. The fiddlers just play the song over and over until they seemingly get tired of it and lift a foot to call the last verse. Would it do any good to learn a break or should I just focus on learning different ways to play the chords? What about fill licks?

Rusty - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:14:51

No breaks in old time music

cottontop - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:32:38

quote:

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Originally posted by Rusty

No breaks in old time music

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I wonder why that is.

Joe

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:38:05

Listen to the Steam Machine videos on YouTube. And Earl with Paul Warren. Emulate them.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:47:40

It’s actually quite fun playing rolling backup behind a fiddle tune. For the first 5 minutes anyway.

Jon Borcherding - Posted - 08/15/2025:  13:49:06

quote:

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Originally posted by cottontop

quote:

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Originally posted by Rusty

No breaks in old time music

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I wonder why that is.

Joe

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So... to paint with a really broad brush, thus insuring to get some paint on everyone including myself:

I kinda figure it's because Old Time was/is more about dancing and Bluegrass is more about musicianship.

Nobody ever threw all the furniture on the lawn to have a bluegrass concert in their kitchen.  They threw the furniture on the lawn to make room for the dancing.

Fire away!

Jon Borcherding - Posted - 08/15/2025:  14:14:54

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Listen to the Steam Machine videos on YouTube. And Earl with Paul Warren. Emulate them.

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youtube.com/watch?v=iq_x0Z54Eqs

Thanks Bill!  That was a great tip!

In the full concert video linked above the fiddle player is introducing the 3rd song when he says (paraphrasing) they don't really know if they wanna play old time or bluegrass radio music.  The audience doesn't seem to care and they are wearing out those chairs with some serious wiggle butt.

His comment reminded me that radio was also a factor that shaped the bluegrass culture and made the break a popular feature of the genre.

cottontop - Posted - 08/15/2025:  14:43:30

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Borcherding

quote:

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Originally posted by cottontop

quote:

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Originally posted by Rusty

No breaks in old time music

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I wonder why that is.

Joe

---

So... to paint with a really broad brush, thus insuring to get some paint on everyone including myself:

I kinda figure it's because Old Time was/is more about dancing and Bluegrass is more about musicianship.

Nobody ever threw all the furniture on the lawn to have a bluegrass concert in their kitchen.  They threw the furniture on the lawn to make room for the dancing.

Fire away!

 

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But it can be done.

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/15/2025:  15:04:10

If I was in your shoes and planned on hanging around there --I would pick a few of their regulars to work on--

-If I could record them playing I would take them home to work out simple sparse melodies that hit on notes --where they did--then figure out ways -to lead in and out of those spots--I would record me playing along with them in my privacy some to find where it needs a new and different approach-----Then I would probably go down there and give it a try--anyway that is what -I would do

Edited by - Tractor1 on 08/15/2025 15:07:11

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 08/15/2025:  16:01:57

In a lot of ways, I always regarded OT as more related to Irish Trad. Of course it's different stylistically, but when you think that Irish players traditionally played in unison with no breaks, you can see similarities.

My old friend, the late Bill Martin (dance caller extraordinaire in Vancouver, WA / Portland OR) once commented that "OT music is fiddle music", and I think that it was Dwight Diller who said that it was the fiddlers who carried the cultural message in their playing.  

You've got to realize that in the British Isles / American tradition, the fiddle far pre-dates the banjo which is a comparative newcomer.

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 08/15/2025:  16:48:06

Try to play the melody, or roll through chords, whatever you like.

cevant - Posted - 08/15/2025:  18:30:55

Sometimes in Old Time, the whole tune is the break. Saves us from sitting there chuckin’ for 15 minutes for your 30 seconds of glory in those big BG jams. You don’t have to step on the fiddle, but nothing wrong with heartily playing along with a little taste.  There's plenty of opportunity to rise up once in a while and be heard.  The idea is to complement what the fiddler is playing and add mainly to add rhythm for a foundation.  This is dance music.

Edited by - cevant on 08/15/2025 18:45:41

slc - Posted - 08/15/2025:  21:37:45

I'd say the musics are pretty different, in spite of similar roots. Bluegrass is more about musicianship and showcasing skills, coming from a tradition of performance and stage.

There's the old joke, what's the difference between old-time and bluegrass? In bluegrass, everyone learns the tune BEFORE they start playing!

Indeed, I've often heard bluegrass players discuss the correct chords before they play. In old-time the best you might get is "there's a C in the second part" before starting a tune nobody else has heard before.

Old-time is more akin to me to say, drumming than to musical performance. It's an extended groove where everyone syncs up and vibes. I've seen players literally drool into their instruments! Personally, some of my most vivid "flow" experiences have been while playing old-time (I decided "hydroplaning" is a better term - though clumsy to say - because it feels like "lifting up" out of the resistant water and skimming/playing with near effortlessness).

Musicianship matters of course, and there definitely are some old-time stars out there, but the key skill in a jam seems to be in listening to and adapting to the players one is playing with, in that moment with that tune, and finding that "groove".

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 08/16/2025:  03:09:27

Old time and bluegrass jams as we know them today are creatures of the folk revival of the 1950s through 1970s.

Old time music, in the sense of what people in the the early 1900s actually played and listened to, is not just fiddle tunes and dance music. The early revivalists like the NLCR and the Iron Mountain String Band played more songs than tunes. Tommy Jarrell sang on most of his recorded work. The idea that old-time music is mostly instrumental is probably younger than disco.

MRichaud - Posted - 08/16/2025:  04:24:40

quote:

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Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe

Try to play the melody, or roll through chords, whatever you like.

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This is what I do - not interested in breaks per se, and it's always worked for me.  While the OP asks about two-finger style, I view the banjo as a bridge between melody and rhythm, especially clawhammer, which is what I play (or at least attempt to!).

The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 08/16/2025:  05:28:38

quote:

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Originally posted by slc

I'd say the musics are pretty different, in spite of similar roots. Bluegrass is more about musicianship and showcasing skills, coming from a tradition of performance and stage.



There's the old joke, what's the difference between old-time and bluegrass? In bluegrass, everyone learns the tune BEFORE they start playing!



Indeed, I've often heard bluegrass players discuss the correct chords before they play. In old-time the best you might get is "there's a C in the second part" before starting a tune nobody else has heard before.



Old-time is more akin to me to say, drumming than to musical performance. It's an extended groove where everyone syncs up and vibes. I've seen players literally drool into their instruments! Personally, some of my most vivid "flow" experiences have been while playing old-time (I decided "hydroplaning" is a better term - though clumsy to say - because it feels like "lifting up" out of the resistant water and skimming/playing with near effortlessness).



Musicianship matters of course, and there definitely are some old-time stars out there, but the key skill in a jam seems to be in listening to and adapting to the players one is playing with, in that moment with that tune, and finding that "groove".

---

This (and others who posted similar)  helps me conceptualize it a lot. Thank you. 



So an offshoot question, are the fiddlers playing the melody themselves? It didn't sound like there were approximating chords but playing a coherent piece, with all of them in unison with one another. It was quite the experience just to listen to them, like an orchestral arrangement in old time form. 

 

Another question, they played some crossover pieces that I've heard in BG jams, like Red Wing and Down Yonder. Would it have sounded OK for me to have played a BG break along with their melodies or would it have sounded weird?

Edited by - The Eclectic Banjo on 08/16/2025 05:32:00

RB3 - Posted - 08/16/2025:  05:55:13

Below are links to YouTube recordings from Richard Greene's "Duets" album.  In both recordings, he's accompanied by J.D. Crowe.  This is the way it's done.

Twinkle Little Star - Richard Greene

Colored Aristocracy - Richard Greene

pmiller510 - Posted - 08/16/2025:  06:28:14

And here's another way. Mississippi Sawyer with Wade Ward on banjo playing with Uncle Charlie Higgins on the fiddle. This one is not quite so bluegrass flavored.

youtube.com/watch?v=xLkytu2GJzo

Probably need to cut and paste the link.

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/16/2025:  06:50:17

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

Below are links to YouTube recordings from Richard Greene's "Duets" album.  In both recordings, he's accompanied by J.D. Crowe.  This is the way it's done.Twinkle Little Star - Richard Greene

Colored Aristocracy - Richard Greene

that is for sure the way it is done by one that is good as it gets--but this guy adds a little to it--this time around--JD's version on the bottom

 

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Edited by - Tractor1 on 08/16/2025 06:53:14

Paul R - Posted - 08/16/2025:  08:21:57

In old time music, "The fiddle plays the melody rhythmically, and the banjo plays the rhythm melodically." Tony Spadaro

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 08/16/2025:  08:42:00

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

Another question, they played some crossover pieces that I've heard in BG jams, like Red Wing and Down Yonder. Would it have sounded OK for me to have played a BG break along with their melodies or would it have sounded weird?

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Not weird at all. I bet it would sound good.

Phil - MO - Posted - 08/17/2025:  08:16:21

I've attended several fiddlers conventions in the Ozarks. The biggest one is the Ozark Fiddlers Convention in Harrison, AR usually held at spring break at the state college south campus. They have classes and stage shows for youngsters and I understand over 1000 people show up and is free. Groups occupy classrooms and play both styles where all play melody consisting of mostly fiddles. They welcome all instruments on campus and many groups will occupy a room and do their own thing playing round robin with all instruments taking a break bluegrass style. I believe this year is their 47th convention.

Another fiddlers convention honoring a deceased well known fiddler that I've attended is twice a year in Branson, MO usually held at a campground. The true old time fiddler groups usually consist of one old timer who claims he knows all the old time melodies and leads a group of many many fiddlers and don't really like a banjo to join three finger style. They play same song over and over. Other more conventional bluegrass style groups will form their own jam groups.

slc - Posted - 08/17/2025:  11:14:20

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul R

In old time music, "The fiddle plays the melody rhythmically, and the banjo plays the rhythm melodically." Tony Spadaro

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That's a perfect way to put it!

I sometimes tell the joke: very broadly speaking, the fiddle provides the melody, the guitar provides the rhythm - and the banjo provides the volume!

It's not TRUE of course - but I think it's pretty funny. 

Andy B - Posted - 08/19/2025:  17:11:19

Some other great examples of finger style banjo accompanying old time fiddle: Paul Smith backing up Snake Chapman, Ralph Stanley backing up Curly Ray Cline on Pretty Little Indian, and the outstanding banjoist (sorry I don’t remember his name) backing up Tatiana Hargreaves on some YouTube videos I saw years ago. It can be done!

Tom Meisenheimer - Posted - 08/19/2025:  18:00:50

Here in Missouri it seems banjo was not as common as fiddle. I wonder why (actually I wonder if that is true).

TJM

writerrad - Posted - 08/19/2025:  19:34:34

This depends on what kind of music it is.   If it is bluegrass, then it is not bluegrass without breaks.

In old time music instrumental solo breaks were not part of the tradition in regard to dance tunes, which is what most fiddle tunes are.  There are a few exceptions, especially when Black old Time fiddlers and banjoists are involved like Gribble and Lusk, or in the fiddling of the Black Booker Brothers with the banjo playing by Marion Underwood in the socalled Taylor's Kentucky Boys  recording in April 1927.

I have been listening to old time music since about 1964, and there are rarely breaks in fiddle tune bands for the banjo or worse for the guitar on most recordings of fiddle tunes.

Of course, old time music is made up of much more than fiddle tunes.  The problem is that jams now are over dominated by fiddle tunes, played by fiddlers, or by violinists who never heard real old time music.  When I entered the world of old time music when I was in high school in the 1960s, SINGING SONGS WITH WORDS WAS A BIG PART OF OLD TIME MUSIC.   Now in some jams, only fiddlers are allowed to call tunes, and only wordless fiddle tunes.

Of course, there are also many BANJO SONGS, songs where no fiddle was played.  Songs best suited for the banjo.  From an early age,  even before I could play the banjo I became interested in the songs of banjoists like Tom Ashley, Dock Boggs, THE GREAT ROSCOE HOLCOMB.   That music used to be a regular part of old time jams, or old time get togethers.

The real problem is that old time jams have become more and more divorced from any association with how people actually played old time music when it was extant, living day to day music before the 1950s, or in the 20s and 30s.  It used to be that what old time music people were suppoed to be doing was emulating that.   There was very much banjo picking, and heck of a lot of singing.

Each one of the original New Lost City Ramblers has told me separately that the most requested song they had in the 60s  was Charlie Poole's Baltimore fire, but if you ask for a Charlie Poole song or in that style most of the violinists posing as fiddlers will say "who is that."

LOL as somneone who started out trying to be "old timey"  60 or more years ago when I was in high school,  I have achieved a goal at last.   I am 78, and complaining that people are not doing things as they were done 60 years ago.

Edited by - writerrad on 08/19/2025 19:38:35

writerrad - Posted - 08/19/2025:  19:47:28

quote:

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Originally posted by cottontop

quote:

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Originally posted by Rusty

No breaks in old time music

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I wonder why that is.

Joe

There have been some breaks and some bands, but the old time fiddle tune that has become the center of most jams was not show music, but it was working dance music.  Its purpose was not to dazzle or entertain or be listened to but for people to dance to.  It involves a lot of regular playing that gives a rhythm for dancers to keep dancing through, rather than the kind of variations that breaks  can provide.

It is a bit distorting if you know this music only from recordings.  When records came in, they could only hold a little less than 3 minutes, but to play a square dance and similar dance with just an 8 hand set (with 4 couples only) you probably need to be playing a tune regularly 15 minutes, for the complete progression of playing.  What the dancers need is a strong regular rhythm that they can build from.  In fact in a good dance the way the dancers go through the whole thing can add to the rhythmic inspiration of a band or musician.

When Monroe had his camp in Indiana, he did NOT have his bluegrass band or even  one of the guest bands he had playing at the barndances in the evening.   Instead, he had a regular old time band led by his brother Charlie--when they were on speaking terms--without the great soloists usually,

Bluegrass is show music, focusing on flashy instrumentation, and top notch vocals.  Old time attempts largely to be dance music.

Although it is also true that old tie involves a lot of singing music, which has largely disappeared, but that is another story.

writerrad - Posted - 08/19/2025:  19:59:04

The term Old Time Music was developed in the 1920s by the Okeh Record Company, probably thought out by Ralph Peer before he went to Victor.  It really included all sorts of  different music that even if someone played several like AP Carter who was a fiddler, a guitar player in the classic finger style, and a famous teacher of church songs, tprobably did not think they were part of the same thing.   In the 1950s  folk music enthusiasts on the East Coast of the USA adopted the term Old Time Music to call the older string band music and other music they wanted to play.  What constitutes it seems to be changing in the 60 years I have been aware o fit., especially since it is based on what is popular among revivalists, essentially folkies, who did not grow upwith it as a real music i their lives.

The current fad is an overpopulation of fiddle tunes put forward by former and future violinists, many newly minted in retirement.

I used to frail a lot, but for the past 5 or 6 years I played mostly finger style playing old time music, sometimes 2 finger, sometimes thumb lead, sometimes index lead, and sometimes I used 3 fingers, and sometimes I even use 4 fingers  like Gus Cannon did.   There are a variety of techniques.  You have to understand that your job doing this is keeping the rhythm going, and supporting the lead instrument, although in some styles, especially Black or Black influenced old time, the lead can go back and forth between the fiddle and the banjo.  

BlueMountain - Posted - 08/20/2025:  04:47:14

quote:

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Originally posted by MRichaud

quote:

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Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe

Try to play the melody, or roll through chords, whatever you like.

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This is what I do - not interested in breaks per se, and it's always worked for me.  While the OP asks about two-finger style, I view the banjo as a bridge between melody and rhythm, especially clawhammer, which is what I play (or at least attempt to!).

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I agree with you. When I was asked to play banjo for a weekly "old time fiddle" jam, it was made clear that my purpose was mostly rhythm, much like the bass as traditionally played in bluegrass or a mandolin playing chop chords. I was to be the accompanist. I use an open back banjo with a Dobson tone ring or else one with a Douglas fir tone ring so the banjo won't ring too much. Nylon strings, for a sound more like a traditional nineteenth century banjo. Never any picks. I maintain the rhythm using a clawhammer style of fifth string and down stroke with the index finger, but I add interest with upstrokes now and then with my index finger, catching various strings with the pad of the finger and syncopating the sound. I use mostly open chords, moving up the neck now and then when that's the appropriate sound for the song. I don't use a regular capo, but instead use a barred A if I play in A. I do use a Banjo Highway 5th string capo, as banjo spikes are hard on nylon strings, and they press the string too close to the fretboard and decrease the ring of the fifth string. The Banjo Highway capo lifts the string so it rings. Most important, maintain the rhythm for the fiddles. A down stroke with an index finger on a nylon-stringed banjo can actually be very loud--100 decibels--so I pay attention to the volume of the fiddles and often play lighter. I also adjust the tone and volume by holding the banjo against my belly or hinging it out with my left arm. No banjo rolls. No solos at all. I play those elsewhere. If you don't like it, don't go. Where I play, we play each song three times. I have to keep track. We use standard notation with chords. We play about thirty tunes in two hours.

My studies suggest that the supposed rules of Old Time Fiddling are arbitrary and phoney. Fiddlers sitting on a porch moved from song to song as the spirit moved them, often taking turns back and forth, and improvisation was common and expected. Players learned that way, and they showed off. If there were multiple fiddles at a dance, they might of course maintain the same notes and tempo to be better heard, but even then, the best fiddlers took breaks on occasion. Yes, tunes were played longer at dances, as the fiddlers role was primarily rhythm for the dancing, but dancers need a break between songs to regroup. I also think the way I play clawhammer, adding syncopation with occasional upstrokes, goes back to the 1840s. Different players had different variations, and how they played also depended on who they learned from, if anyone. For playing on the porch by oneself, the thumb may have been used for playing melodies.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 08/20/2025:  10:23:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

So an offshoot question, are the fiddlers playing the melody themselves? It didn't sound like there were approximating chords but playing a coherent piece, with all of them in unison with one another. It was quite the experience just to listen to them, like an orchestral arrangement in old time form. 

 

Another question, they played some crossover pieces that I've heard in BG jams, like Red Wing and Down Yonder. Would it have sounded OK for me to have played a BG break along with their melodies or would it have sounded weird?

---

As for the first question, that's what I find frustrating about the whole idea of a "fiddle jam".  You sit down with much more than maybe a half dozen musicians (of widely various levels of experience and ability) who don't play together regularly, and the music is going to naturally head for the lowest common denominator.  Whatever style and subtlety each participant may have in their playing becomes a distraction, and as they try to get tight with each other,  everyone winds up sounding square and mechanical.   

Which kind of leads to the second one...  It would be entirely appropriate for you to play the melody, if you know it.  The trick is to dig that you're not playing a solo, and I'd expect you'll need to think about reining in the volume and flash you've practiced so hard to develop for playing bluegrass, so as to blend with the group, rather than standing out from it.

For some general advice, the word is LISTEN.   I'll second the already mentioned Scruggs-Warren duets! Keep in mind that those are duets, though, and Earl is doing the job of a whole rhythm section on that banjo.  You ought not do near that much when you're trying to fit in with a fiddle orchestra.   I'd suggest familiarizing yourself with some other-than-bluegrass fingerstyle banjoists, for starters:  Charlie Poole, Frank Jenkins (especially w. DaCosta Wolz' Southern Broadcasters), Murphy Gribble (Gribble, Lusk, and York), Uncle Dave Macon, Gus Cannon, Omer Forster, Will Keys....

Geoff Keymer - Posted - 08/20/2025:  10:34:04

I realize that this is an old topic, but thought that I would add to it. One of the ways is to play a melodic version of the fiddle song.
I usually find a fiddle arrangement of the tune that I like and then sit with it and learn it note for note. Also a great way to learn the fingerboard and play in different keys.
I have 2 tabs on my BH homepage page that you might find interesting
Geoff

Geoff Keymer - Posted - 08/20/2025:  11:04:27

Playing melodic style one can play fiddle tunes note for note.
I play a lot with fiddle players. Typically I will find an arrangement of the tune that I like and then learn it note for note..
This is also a good way to become familiar with the fingerboard and playing in different keys
Geoff

rzeis - Posted - 08/20/2025:  12:01:32

Many years ago I was taking group fiddle lessons at a music store. After 10 weeks I was the only student left. The teacher, a banjo and fiddle player, decided to cancel the classes. He started a string band class instead. He thought I should come and play guitar. It really wasn't a class, more a jam for at least a half a dozen fiddles. One of his banjo students joined the class. The two of us had a ball supporting the fiddle players. I was able to do bass runs, harmony picking, etc Dick would play class hammer backups, melody, harmony, etc.
We would have guitar players and banjo players join us. But they seldom came back. They were mainly bluegrass players. Theu need to play at breakneck speed to show off their skills. Old time fiddlers never play as fast as they can. They play at the speed that the music requires.

writerrad - Posted - 08/20/2025:  14:33:06

That is not old time music but bluegrass where you should take breaks.

writerrad - Posted - 08/20/2025:  14:55:04

The issue here is really the difference between  a "jam" situation and the real business of playing old time music in an actual situation for which the music is designed which is  NOT a jam with multiple fiddlers and multiple banjoists and multiple guitarists, but in a real string band situation with one fiddler one banjoists, one guitarist, and that is it.  The banjoist normally does not take breaks.  Normally, the fiddler also does not take breaks either, nor does the guitarist.  The purpose of the operation is to provide a steady pattern for dancers to move across the floor, and for the banjo and the guitar to provide rhythmic and harmonic support to the fiddler.

The problem is that too many people playing old time music have never actually played in a band like this, but have chiefly played in jams which can sometimes have 3 fiddlers,. 4 guitarists,4 banjoist, and who knows what else.   When I have played in actual bands even with veteran professional musicians,  there is always a discussion of how to play and how each tune will be played, and often rehearsal.   Some fiddlers want the guitar or banjo to be chords,  some like runs, some like in between.   As a banjoist or guitarist, if I do not know the fiddler involved, I will talk to the fiddler to find out what the fiddler needs in he way of support.  Some get irritated if I am playing more than chords,  some want runs, some want a counter melody.

The big problem in old time is the jam culture where it is expected there is just one way to play any tune and that everyone instantly knows it.  Playing music is a COOPERATIVE  activity, which means that those doing it are WORKING TOGETHER  for a definite goal.  Musicians should not be playing together unless they are willing to talk to each other bout HOW  a tune will be played, and what will be asked of each player.

The jam culture acts like there is just one way.   When  I have had the opportunity to play with professional players of long experience,  I usually expect a DISCUSSION, on how a tune will be played,  and what they expect of every instrument to do.   No one just says what we will play.  Everyone expects there will be a discussion, or if there is a band leader,  she or he will make suggestions that we can respond to.  Even when I have played as a fill in on guitar or banjo with professional musicians who have been playing for decades, people will talk to me about what I should or wish to do to fit in on the sound, and what particular type of sound we desire.

Most jams are the opposite of that.  No wonder folk are confused.

---

Originally posted by Dan Gellert

quote:

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Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjo

So an offshoot question, are the fiddlers playing the melody themselves? It didn't sound like there were approximating chords but playing a coherent piece, with all of them in unison with one another. It was quite the experience just to listen to them, like an orchestral arrangement in old time form. 

 

Another question, they played some crossover pieces that I've heard in BG jams, like Red Wing and Down Yonder. Would it have sounded OK for me to have played a BG break along with their melodies or would it have sounded weird?

---

As for the first question, that's what I find frustrating about the whole idea of a "fiddle jam".  You sit down with much more than maybe a half dozen musicians (of widely various levels of experience and ability) who don't play together regularly, and the music is going to naturally head for the lowest common denominator.  Whatever style and subtlety each participant may have in their playing becomes a distraction, and as they try to get tight with each other,  everyone winds up sounding square and mechanical.   

Which kind of leads to the second one...  It would be entirely appropriate for you to play the melody, if you know it.  The trick is to dig that you're not playing a solo, and I'd expect you'll need to think about reining in the volume and flash you've practiced so hard to develop for playing bluegrass, so as to blend with the group, rather than standing out from it.

For some general advice, the word is LISTEN.   I'll second the already mentioned Scruggs-Warren duets! Keep in mind that those are duets, though, and Earl is doing the job of a whole rhythm section on that banjo.  You ought not do near that much when you're trying to fit in with a fiddle orchestra.   I'd suggest familiarizing yourself with some other-than-bluegrass fingerstyle banjoists, for starters:  Charlie Poole, Frank Jenkins (especially w. DaCosta Wolz' Southern Broadcasters), Murphy Gribble (Gribble, Lusk, and York), Uncle Dave Macon, Gus Cannon, Omer Forster, Will Keys....

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garyaux - Posted - 08/21/2025:  12:13:48

You don't take a break, but you can play the tune along with them, just can't overpower them or do any wierd variations. You're doing the same thing they're doing-playing the melody (or some subtle harmony) along with them.

The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 08/21/2025:  12:40:10

quote:

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Originally posted by garyaux

You don't take a break, but you can play the tune along with them, just can't overpower them or do any wierd variations. You're doing the same thing they're doing-playing the melody (or some subtle harmony) along with them.

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Congrats on your very first post! Thank you for the response. Yes it seemed like vamping and playing basic chordal rolls through the songs were acceptable. 

The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 08/21/2025:  12:44:37

quote:

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Originally posted by rzeis

I was able to do bass runs, harmony picking, etc Dick would play class hammer backups, melody, harmony, etc.

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What are bass runs and class hammer backups? 

rzeis - Posted - 08/21/2025:  17:17:52

class - typing error - should be claw. Bass runs are playing individual notes. ie: from a C chord C D E F F chord.

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 08/21/2025:  18:59:06

If it's like most of the old-time jams I've been to a Mastertone going full bore would still not detract from the output of 12 or more fiddlers.

Edited by - earlstanleycrowe on 08/21/2025 18:59:18

djvarnell - Posted - 08/27/2025:  13:24:14

Check out Steve Arkin on Utube video, he was a great clawhammer player, but he also played fantastic three finger old time banjo with fiddlers