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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/376436
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 09:34:43
Greetings!
Let me start by saying that I'm a relative beginner to the banjo, and that I've received no real training in music theory. However, I understand basic concepts like root note, chord triads and scales, etc., so I'm slowly coming along, but I'm struggling to understand the following:
I downloaded the tablature to a fantastic bluesy banjo song recently (Man of Constant Sorrow), and it calls for open G tuning, with a capo at the 3rd fret (open Bb tuning = F,Bb,D,F), but with a spike of the 5th string at the 10th fret (which produces an open 'C' note)?
So my question is . . . why the 'C' note at the 10th fret?
Theoretically speaking, wouldn't it make more sense in this instance to have the spike at the 8th fret, where the open note is a Bb, which is more consonant with the F,Bb,D,F tuning?
Thanks for listening, and thanks to all who choose to respond!
YellowSkyBlueSun - Posted - 07/19/2021: 09:52:07
The key of Bflat contains the notes Bflat, C, D, Eflat, F, G, and A. You could set the 5th string to be any of these notes and it would sound right.
The specific note the drone string is tuned to depends on the song. Perhaps the particular song you're learning may use the C note more often, so it's tuned to C. But you could tune it to any note in the key and it would sound right.
Another example is playing in the key of E from open G. You can tune the 5th string up to G#, down to F#, or railroad spike it at the 7th fret for A. All three are correct, just depends on the song and how you play it.
Edited by - YellowSkyBlueSun on 07/19/2021 09:52:38
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 10:37:26
quote:
Originally posted by YellowSkyBlueSunThe key of Bflat contains the notes Bflat, C, D, Eflat, F, G, and A. You could set the 5th string to be any of these notes and it would sound right.
The specific note the drone string is tuned to depends on the song. Perhaps the particular song you're learning may use the C note more often, so it's tuned to C. But you could tune it to any note in the key and it would sound right.
Another example is playing in the key of E from open G. You can tune the 5th string up to G#, down to F#, or railroad spike it at the 7th fret for A. All three are correct, just depends on the song and how you play it.
Thank you, YellowSunBlueSun! Now that you've explained it, this makes perfectly good sense. In other words, I could use the spike at either position, 8th or 10th fret, since both notes (Bb and C) occur in the scale of the root (Bb). Perhaps one will sound more bluesy than the other, etc. I guess I'll just have to experiment. But thanks again.
Culloden - Posted - 07/19/2021: 10:47:47
What key is the song supposed to be in? Most recordings I have heard of Man of Constant Sorrow are in E or F. With the capo on the third fret and the fifth string spiked at a C note it sounds like the tab is written in the key of F. That means you would play out of D position. The fifth string would be in tune with that key.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 07/19/2021: 10:50:18
Everything you need to know from one of the country’s finest luthiers:
frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/...ike1.html
Frank Ford has done probably a dozen or more spikes for me over the years. His technique works superbly.
vthokie7227 - Posted - 07/19/2021: 10:50:51
What key is song you downloaded supposed to be in? This can impact the choice of how to tune the 5th string. For example, many tunes in the key of D work very well when the 5th string is tuned to A (7th fret) while the remainder of the strings are in open G. If one wanted to transpose a tune from the key of D to E then they could simply place a capo at the second fret and retune the 5th string to B (8th fret) and so on and so forth. The capo scenario you describe sounds like this tune is in the key of F.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 10:57:25
quote:
Originally posted by CullodenWhat key is the song supposed to be in? Most recordings I have heard of Man of Constant Sorrow are in E or F. With the capo on the third fret and the fifth string spiked at a C note it sounds like the tab is written in the key of F. That means you would play out of D position. The fifth string would be in tune with that key.
I'm afraid that much of what you've said here is still above my pay-grade, and unfortunately, the tablature that I've referred to here (for Man of Constant Sorrow), does not specify the "key" that it's played in. So I have no idea as to what key it is in, or what key it is intended to be in). All the tab says is:
"Standard Tuning (GDGBD), Capo 3rd fret, 5th string spike at 10th fret."
And from looking at the original recording artists (the Soggy Bottom Boys) live performances, it is clear that it is in-fact played with a capo at the 3rd fret.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 11:08:08
quote:
Originally posted by CullodenThat means you would play out of D position. The fifth string would be in tune with that key.
Remember, I'm an absolute beginner, and as such, I interpreted the capo at 3rd fret to mean that the tuning was Bb. How this relates to this particular song apparently being in the "Key of F" is beyond my current understanding of music theory? In other words, I thought this meant that it's in the key of Bb? And Similarly, I'm afraid I don't yet know what "playing out of D position" means?
Edited by - Patriot on 07/19/2021 11:09:42
janolov - Posted - 07/19/2021: 11:29:14
One way to play in the key of D in standard G tuning is to just spike the fifth at 7th fret and then play the D, G and A chords just as you learned them in standard tuning. The tuning and spiking you describes is an equivalent tuning, just three frets higher on all strings. So my guess is that the key of man of Constant Sorrow is the key of F and not the key of Bb.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 11:35:10
Righto! From what everyone here is saying, it sounds like the song is in open Bb "tuning", but the song itself is in the "key" of F.
Now, I just have to learn the fundamental difference between the "tuning" and the "key"?!@#&?
Edited by - Patriot on 07/19/2021 11:35:51
YellowSkyBlueSun - Posted - 07/19/2021: 11:35:35
quote:
Originally posted by Patriotquote:
Originally posted by Culloden
from looking at the original recording artists (the Soggy Bottom Boys) live performances, it is clear that it is in-fact played with a capo at the 3rd fret.
Can you post the video? I'd love to see some footage of an original Soggy Bottom Boys recording, as I understand it they're exceedingly rare.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:03:07
quote:
Originally posted by YellowSkyBlueSunquote:
Originally posted by Patriotquote:
Originally posted by Culloden
from looking at the original recording artists (the Soggy Bottom Boys) live performances, it is clear that it is in-fact played with a capo at the 3rd fret.
Can you post the video? I'd love to see some footage of an original Soggy Bottom Boys recording, as I understand it they're exceedingly rare.
Not the original Soggy Bottom Boys, but this is the version that I'm referring to.
Edited by - Patriot on 07/19/2021 12:05:34
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:18:38
Actually, I think I'm starting to get it. The capo at 3rd fret, with 5th string spike at 10th fret, pushes the standard tuning from G-DGBD to C-FBbDF, and since F is the dominant (or tonic) note in that tuning, the song is therefore in the key of F?
Have I got that right?
G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:30:54
This video shows that the tune as played is in the key of F.
Many people confuse "tuning" with "key." But a little experience will show you that you can actually play in any key, depending entirely on where you fret the strings.
In this case, you should just follow the "Constant Sorrow" tab instructions. They will tell you exactly where to fret the strings so that the tune comes out in the key of F.
You might also think about learning a little more theory, particularly about keys and key signatures. You seem to have a curiosity as to the "why" of playing, rather than just the how, and a little more theory could answer some of those "why" questions.
250gibson - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:43:23
quote:
Originally posted by PatriotActually, I think I'm starting to get it. The capo at 3rd fret, with 5th string spike at 10th fret, pushes the standard tuning from G-DGBD to C-FBbDF, and since F is the dominant (or tonic) note in that tuning, the song is therefore in the key of F?
Have I got that right?
The song is in the key of F because it comes home or resolves to the tonic, in this case it is F. Tonic and domininat are not synomous in music. Tonic and root are synomonus, the dominat is the 5th degree.
You ar correct that the capo pushes the standard tuning, but you cannot derive the tonic and therefore key from the tuning alone.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:44:22
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward Porgie. . . You seem to have a curiosity as to the "why" of playing, rather than just the how, and a little more theory could answer some of those "why" questions.
Yup, that's precisely right. That's me in a nutshell. There's no point in doing something, if you don't understand 'why' you're doing it, and yes, my studies in music theory will positively continue.
Thank you!
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 12:55:00
quote:
Originally posted by 250gibsonquote:
Originally posted by PatriotActually, I think I'm starting to get it. The capo at 3rd fret, with 5th string spike at 10th fret, pushes the standard tuning from G-DGBD to C-FBbDF, and since F is the dominant (or tonic) note in that tuning, the song is therefore in the key of F?
Have I got that right?
. . . You cannot derive the tonic and therefore key from the tuning alone.
Thank you for this, and after looking at some things further on-line, I can plainly see that you are correct. It's clearly more complicated than that. The key appears to relate somehow to the number of sharps and flats in the scale, but what scale? I clearly have much, much more to learn, and trust me, I know how frustrating this to others, who already possess this level of knowledge, to try and explain. It's a tough slog.
Edited by - Patriot on 07/19/2021 12:55:49
RB3 - Posted - 07/19/2021: 14:26:59
It would help if you could create a posting in this discussion that includes the tablature or a link to the tablature that you downloaded. That will allow the more experienced players here to examine and analyze the tablature in order to conclusively determine the key of the song and the intended reason for the specified tuning.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 14:47:54
quote:
Originally posted by RB3It would help if you could create a posting in this discussion that includes the tablature or a link to the tablature that you downloaded. That will allow the more experienced players here to examine and analyze the tablature in order to conclusively determine the key of the song and the intended reason for the specified tuning.
I'll see if I can figure out a way to post the actual .pdf file of the tablature, or a link to same, but I think it's been clearly established already that the song is in the key of F.
Edited by - Patriot on 07/19/2021 14:49:00
mike gregory - Posted - 07/19/2021: 15:17:49
Oh, sorry!
When I saw the TITLE, I misunderstood tht you were asking WHERE to place the spikes.
And I was going to advise "NEVER in the HEAD!", and post this picture:
![]()
But, no need for any such silliness, at this point.
May you never be more than a Man of Infrequent Sorrow.
Patriot - Posted - 07/19/2021: 15:29:37
Yeah, I think the list of licensed therapists that you're after is probably posted on another thread. ![]()
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 07/19/2021: 15:33:37
quote:
Originally posted by Bill RogersEverything you need to know from one of the country’s finest luthiers:
frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/...ike1.html
Frank Ford has done probably a dozen or more spikes for me over the years. His technique works superbly.
Odd, never knew there were things called, "Spikes". All I knew was that I used a small roundhead screw in the fingerboard to do that sort of work!!!! :-) Pete Seeger did the same thing!
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/19/2021: 18:14:11
quote:
Originally posted by PatriotNow, I just have to learn the fundamental difference between the "tuning" and the "key"?
You've just stated it. Tuning of the instrument and key of the song are not necessarily the same thing.
Without a capo, standard G tuning on a banjo is quite capable of being used for songs in any key. C, D, E-flat, F, and B-flat (and their relative minors) have good possibilities. A and E are a bit more difficult, I think, but sound pretty good. Sometimes players change the fifth string. Sometimes they work with it.
Seeing as tab doesn't include a key signature, look at the chords to tell you what key the song is. Or the last note.
Why did I say tuning and key are not "necessarily" the same thing? Because with tunings such as D, drop-C, G-minor -- tunings in which you actually tune the strings differently rather than use a capo -- the main reason to use those is to play in those particular keys.
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/19/2021: 18:22:08
quote:
Originally posted by PatriotLet's try this . . .
Happy Banjo Dude did you (and his other customers) a disservice in not including the chords. You can tell him I said so.
If he had included the chords -- what I call the "as if" pre-capo chord names -- it would have been clear from the outset what key this is in. You'd know you were playing the song "as if" in D, but with the capo at three, it's three half steps higher: F. The fifth string is spiked 5 frets up (10) instead of 3 (8) because that note works better for the sound this arrangement strives for.
G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/19/2021: 18:29:05
I would say that the tuning and the key are NEVER the same thing.
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/19/2021: 20:08:25
quote:
Originally posted by G Edward PorgieI would say that the tuning and the key are NEVER the same thing.
Good point. They are sometimes the same. But never the same "thing."
For what it's worth, I never refer to a capoed position as another letter name tuning. That is, in the example being discussed, I never call G tuning, capo 3, "B-flat tuning." I call it "G tuning, capo 3."
Some people play Jerusalem Ridge in G-minor tuning, capo 2 to A-minor. I don't call that A-minor tuning.
To my mind and understanding, "tunings" are achieved by use of the tuning pegs to set the notes of the strings. Although I suppose G tuning with 5th string spiked 2 frets to A is a different tuning.
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 08:34:48
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by PatriotLet's try this . . .
Happy Banjo Dude did you (and his other customers) a disservice in not including the chords. You can tell him I said so.
If he had included the chords -- what I call the "as if" pre-capo chord names -- it would have been clear from the outset what key this is in. You'd know you were playing the song "as if" in D, but with the capo at three, it's three half steps higher: F. The fifth string is spiked 5 frets up (10) instead of 3 (8) because that note works better for the sound this arrangement strives for.
Thank you!
I fully agree that posting the chords (probably G, C and D?), would have helped me understand things a bit better, but to be clear, I don't speak or otherwise communicate with the transcriber of the tab (HappyBanjoDude), and if I did, I certainly wouldn't feel at liberty to reprimand him for any perceived oversight(s). I simply downloaded his tab on-line (YouTube), and I was and am grateful to him for that.
Edited by - Patriot on 07/20/2021 08:45:40
G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/20/2021: 09:12:34
quote:
Originally posted by Patriotquote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by PatriotLet's try this . . .
Happy Banjo Dude did you (and his other customers) a disservice in not including the chords. You can tell him I said so.
If he had included the chords -- what I call the "as if" pre-capo chord names -- it would have been clear from the outset what key this is in. You'd know you were playing the song "as if" in D, but with the capo at three, it's three half steps higher: F. The fifth string is spiked 5 frets up (10) instead of 3 (8) because that note works better for the sound this arrangement strives for.
Thank you!
I fully agree that posting the chords (probably G, C and D?), would have helped me understand things a bit better, but to be clear, I don't speak or otherwise communicate with the transcriber of the tab (HappyBanjoDude), and if I did, I certainly wouldn't feel at liberty to reprimand him for any perceived oversight(s). I simply downloaded his tab on-line (YouTube), and I was and am grateful to him for that.
G,C, and D chords would make this the key of G, with three frets up being key of Bb, which is not the key the tune is actually being played in. Although the tuning might indicate key of G, the "pre-capo" chords used in this case would be D, G, and A. (Key of D, with three frets up being key of F, which is the correct key in this case.
The simple fact that one can play the D, G, and A chords in a G tuning is why I say that tuning and key are not the same thing.
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/20/2021: 09:12:41
quote:
Originally posted by Patriot
Thank you!I fully agree that posting the chords (probably G, C and D?), would have helped me understand things a bit better,
No!
G, C, D are the chords for the key of G.
The chords the key of D are D, G, A.
Playing those chords three frets up, they come out: F, B-flat, C
This is the whole point some of us have been making about your misinterpretation of the key and your confusion/conflation of a banjo's tuning and the key of the song.
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 10:08:45
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by Patriot
Thank you!I fully agree that posting the chords (probably G, C and D?), would have helped me understand things a bit better,
No!
G, C, D are the chords for the key of G.
The chords the key of D are D, G, A.
Playing those chords three frets up, they come out: F, B-flat, C
This is the whole point some of us have been making about your misinterpretation of the key and your confusion/conflation of a banjo's tuning and the key of the song.
Oakie-Doakie, Smokie! Then what three specific chords would you have liked to see cited by HappyBanjoDude on his published tablature that was posted above?
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/20/2021: 10:34:27
quote:
Originally posted by PatriotOakie-Doakie, Smokie! Then what three specific chords would you have liked to see cited by HappyBanjoDude on his published tablature that was posted above?
D, G, A, since those are the virtual or "as if" chords and positions you're playing. The tab should also have said not only capo #, but "Key of F" to make it perfectly clear what's going on.
Close to 100% of all tabs that call for a capo are written as if there is no capo. This tab is no exception. There are lots of zeros, indicating open strings. And lots of 2nd fret.
Technically, we know there are no actual open, 1st and 2nd fret notes if there's a capo at 3. The capo took them all away. An "open" string indicated by zero in the tab is really 3rd fret. 2nd fret indicated by 2 in the tab is really 5th. So what's happening?
What's happening is the capo is treated as the new nut ( zero) and the tab is written relative to its position. So, rolling on open 4th string, 3rd string two up from the nut/capo, and open 1st string as in the tab would be a D chord without capo. With capo at 3, and accepting the numbers in the tab as relative to the capo, the chord comes out as F.
Capo is probably the biggest source of confusion for beginners. I hope I haven't confused matters more.
I realize you don't actually correspond with Happy Banjo Dude. You ust pay your money and download the tab. But if he has a comment page or sends email after purchase asking for reviews, the need for chords and keys in his tabs is certainly a comment I'd make.
It's possible some of my posted tabs may not include chords. I'm not perfect. But I also don't sell them.
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 10:53:12
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by PatriotOakie-Doakie, Smokie! Then what three specific chords would you have liked to see cited by HappyBanjoDude on his published tablature that was posted above?D, G, A, since those are the virtual or "as if" chords and positions you're playing. The tab should also have said not only capo #, but "Key of F" to make it perfectly clear what's going on.
Close to 100% of all tabs that call for a capo are written as if there is no capo. This tab is no exception. There are lots of zeros, indicating open strings. And lots of 2nd fret.
Technically, we know there are no actual open, 1st and 2nd fret notes if there's a capo at 3. The capo took them all away. An "open" string indicated by zero in the tab is really 3rd fret. 2nd fret indicated by 2 in the tab is really 5th. So what's happening?
What's happening is the capo is treated as the new nut ( zero) and the tab is written relative to its position. So, rolling on open 4th string, 3rd string two up from the nut/capo, and open 1st string as in the tab would be a D chord without capo. With capo at 3, and accepting the numbers in the tab as relative to the capo, the chord comes out as F.
Capo is probably the biggest source of confusion for beginners. I hope I haven't confused matters more.
I realize you don't actually correspond with Happy Banjo Dude. You ust pay your money and download the tab. But if he has a comment page or sends email after purchase asking for reviews, the need for chords and keys in his tabs is certainly a comment I'd make.
It's possible some of my posted tabs may not include chords. I'm not perfect. But I also don't sell them.
Excellent, excellent, excellent! Thank you for this. It's been very helpful, and no, you haven't confused me at all!
It may not seem like it, but I fully understand the capo purpose and function. I get the fact that if you capo standard tuning at the 2nd, 3rd and 5th, you'd go from open G to open A, Bb and C tuning, etc. And I get the fact that (for example), an A chord pattern played in open G tuning becomes a B, C and D chord (to the ear), when playing the same finger pattern at those elevated 2nd, 3rd and 5th capo positions. Where I get lost is when we start using different chord patterns to accommodate different keys. I need far more study on that score.
Anyway, thanks again for your patient and knowledgeable tutelege, and also, just to be clear, I didn't pay HappyBanjoDude or anyone else for the noted tablature. It's free to anyone viewing his lesson on YouTube. ;-)
Edited by - Patriot on 07/20/2021 10:54:59
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/20/2021: 11:22:11
quote:
Originally posted by Patriot
Where I get lost is when we start using different chord patterns to accommodate different keys. I need far more study on that score.
Well, the patterns -- or "progressions" -- in most bluegrass, folk, country, blues and rock -- are extremely similar. Most will be some combination of one, four and five chord (usually written in Roman numerals, I - IV - V). Six minor (vi), two minor (ii) and 3 minor (iii) will come up, generally in that order, I think. When the two and three chords appear in bluegrass, they're usually the non-scale Major version. In bluegrass, you may never need the VII chord (diminished). The V7 (five dominant seventh) will do the job.
Forgive me if you know this next part already: The numbers refer to each chord's degree in the scale of the key being played. So, in the key of G, which you seem to know well, you can play the vast majority of bluegrass songs with only the G (I), C (IV) and D (V) chords. The D may often be a D7 as suggested above.
Figuring the I - IV - V for other keys is easy: just count. Well, you also need to know the notes of the various scales.
If you don't have an immediate need to play Man Of Constant Sorrow with a recording or to accompany a vocalist singing in F, I'd suggest playing this tab without capo (except for 5th string capoed 2 up at 7). This will help you appreciate the sound of a song in D. And it will be great practice for playing in the key of D in G tuning without capo. Wish I had been given such a song to practice when I first took lessons in 1972.
quote:
Originally posted by Patriot
I didn't pay HappyBanjoDude or anyone else for the noted tablature. It's free to anyone viewing his lesson on YouTube. ;-)
Well that's cool. Tough to criticize free tab.
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 11:29:49
I should also admit that I'm not sure I fully understand the point of "chords" (per se) in a fast-paced, finger-picking bluegrass tune like this one? I say this because the rapid (Scrugg's style) finger-picking that is so characteristic of such tunes, never appears to allow for the simultaneous picking of the 3-4 triad notes that comprises the actual chord anyway?
I hope I've worded that so that it makes some sorta sense?
In other words, I totally get that when 'strumming' the instrument, for rythym purposes, you're getting that simultaneous chorus of the 3-4 notes in the chord, but when finger-picking it, as per the tablature for the song in question here, I'm not sure that I see the point of discussing or focusing on 'chords', since they never truly occur in the song, right?
Can you enlighten me on that one?
Ira Gitlin - Posted - 07/20/2021: 12:20:00
The banjo does not play in a vacuum. Most often, it's part of an ensemble, and when the banjo is the focus of attention, some of the other musicians (generally guitar and bass, but maybe others, too) are playing chords or notes from the chords that underscore and enhance the banjo solo. For that matter, when one of the others is soloing, the banjo will play chords or notes from the chords that underscore and enhance that player's solo.
Chords are part of the deep structure of the tune. If you don't know the chords, you don't truly know the tune, IMNSHO. Remember: "The bass is the riverbed. The guitar is the river. Everything else is boats."
G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/20/2021: 12:49:17
Even playing solo, there are still chords. They are in the form of arpeggios, where each note of the chord follows the previous note immediately. Even though these single notes may not look like chords, the ear will perceive them as such. You can test this by strumming nothing but a "G" chord while accompanying a banjo solo in the key of G. You'll soon notice that it sounds pretty terrible when the picker is playing an D7 chord arpeggio.
mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 07/20/2021: 13:06:24
here it is in black and white
banjohangout.org/photo/209917
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 14:02:44
quote:
Originally posted by mmuussiiccaallhere it is in black and white
banjohangout.org/photo/209917
??? Black and white"?? Sorry, but I'm at a loss to see just what this table has to do with the presence or absence of chords while soloing on finger-picked bluegrass banjo? What am I missing?
mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 07/20/2021: 14:28:37
Visualize the fingerings of the chords and look at the steps of the scale that are being harmonized during them. Why are I IV V chords so prominent in song writing? Between them they have every note of the major scale in them. Reverse engineering that means that when you solo, improvise, write a melody, etc. your pitches are going to be superimposed onto this kind of grid work.
Old Hickory - Posted - 07/20/2021: 18:53:10
quote:
Originally posted by Patriot. . . the rapid (Scrugg's style) finger-picking that is so characteristic of such tunes, never appears to allow for the simultaneous picking of the 3-4 triad notes that comprises the actual chord anyway?
. . . when finger-picking it, as per the tablature for the song in question here, I'm not sure that I see the point of discussing or focusing on 'chords', since they never truly occur in the song, right?
No, not right. Totally wrong.
This tab, like nearly all Scruggs-style playing is all chords, all the time. You don't see it because the simple arrangement, combined with the fifth string being spiked to A (taking the tune as tabbed minus capo "as if" in D) and the use of chords that eliminate the "third" interval, makes it easy for a beginner to miss the fact that chords are in fact being played.
Look at the intro. First line/staff all D chord (again: played as written without capo). You are constantly rolling on D-A-D. That's a D chord minus the major third (F#). This is intentional, to give the tune an ambiguous neither major neither minor sound. Typical Stanley Brothers. The non-chord note from which you hammer into it at the beginning is just for color and changes nothing about this being all D chord.
Because of the tuning (with the elevated fifth string) and the elimination of the major third, this chord is played with only one fretted note -- making it not obvious to the beginner that a chord is being fretted and played.
First two measures of the second line/staff of the intro are G. Again, the major third is eliminated and so the picked notes are G-G-D. Again, you play this chord by fretting only one note. Notice that you're doubling the lowest G note. That's to create emphasis and to give your thumb something else to pick besides the 5th string, which is tuned to A. Happy Banjo Dude doesn't want the A note drone against a G chord here.
Starting at the third measure of the second line, you're fretting two notes: 3rd and 1st strings both at 2nd fret. The notes are A and E. Add in the fifth string, and you're rolling on A-A-E. That's an A chord, again missing the major third (C#) because that's the mournful sound of this song.
I'll leave it to you to sound out what chords are happening throughout the rest of the song. Hint: It will always be D, G or A.
More to the point: A lot of this tab is accompaniment/backup to be played while a vocalist is singing or another instrument is playing its solo. So of course, what's being played here are chords. They're broken up. Arpeggios as someone already said.
As to Scruggs' style being too fast to finger full triads, it is impossible to state anything more wrong. I was going to point to something by Earl himself, but then this caught my eye. Here's Casey Henry demonstrating Earl's Dear Old Dixie, fast and slow. Plenty of three-, four- and even five-finger chords. Many times, she plays out of a chord position but has to move a finger to an adjacent non-chord note, because she's going after melody which sometimes happens outside the chord.
A lot of the time -- especially down-the-neck in songs in the key of G in G tuning -- we can play a lot of stuff that doesn't call for full chord shapes. But it's still chords. Up-the-neck, as demonstrated by Casey Henry, Scruggs style is chord-based.
Edited by - Old Hickory on 07/20/2021 18:58:19
Patriot - Posted - 07/20/2021: 19:34:29
"Since a chord may be understood as such, even when all its notes are not simultaneously audible, there has been some academic discussion regarding the point at which a group of notes may be called a chord."
Definition of a Chord, Wikipedia (2021)
Thank you, Old Hickory. ![]()
Edited by - Patriot on 07/20/2021 19:35:33
mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 07/21/2021: 05:03:01
Here's the layout for the key of D in open G tuning to go along with Ken's excellent explanation.
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