Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/17/2020:  02:14:06

Seeger has a lovely version of Pretty Saro on a YouTube video. Her two-finger (?) picking is particularly energetic and effective. Does anyone have any idea what tuning she is using? She is playing a long-neck of course.

ponty - Posted - 03/17/2020:  04:29:41

youtube.com/watch?v=9KHtxDmUydg

Helix - Posted - 03/17/2020:  05:51:04

We miss her so much, She's an American girl, you treat her right. I got to meet her in San Diego in 2004 aT THE fOLK aLLIANCE conference. She's a babe.

We spoke with her two years ago by email inviting her to come and play in Phoenix. She says she ain't coming over until we get our health care straightened out.

I don't know what tuning. Contact her through her booking agent, she'll respond. She's only a few years older than me, and I'm way too young for this.

Let us know what she says. She's still active. Pete got the Tubahone plectrum from the pawn shop. Peggy got a Tubaphone Deluxe.

"Redwing Blackbird." With Ewan McCall.

mainejohn - Posted - 03/17/2020:  06:41:05

A beautiful woman with a beautiful voice and a wonderful banjo style. About 12 years ago I was at a folk festival in Vermont and she sat down next to me on the porch of a cabin where some people were gathered and playing. I was in awe (and in love), and she couldn't have been more unassuming and friendly. I reminded her of her beautiful rendition of "Pretty Polly" and "Willy Moore" which she performed and recorded at the 1960 Newport Folk Festival, which set the bar for me for "frailing" (as it was usually called then). In her typical unassuming and charming manner, her response was "gee, I had forgotten all about that performance!"

janolov - Posted - 03/17/2020:  10:00:01

I have only listened to it once or twice so I may be wrong.

I think she is playing some kind of arpeggio triplets probably with three fingers.

The chords I here are basically B and E. With a long neck banjo she can have played in the equivalent G tuning (eBEG#B) or the equivalent C tuning capo 2 (eAEG#B which at capo 2 becomes f#BF#A#C#)

Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/17/2020:  10:54:44

Thanks for the replies, fellas. By the way, I am interested in developing a "brimming" style of accompaniment that would be suitable for modal songs in Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

mainejohn - Posted - 03/17/2020:  10:57:44

Sorry, but I got sidetracked on my first post. The way I hear it she's playing her longneck in the key of E, and it sounds (to me) like standard C tuning (gCGBD) capoed at the 7th (longneck) fret, (which is where her capo is in the cover photo) which becomes b-E-B-Eb-F#. I do agree with janolov about the arpeggio triplets, with three fingers, no picks. Another option in E would have been to tune it "capo-less" in open E on the longneck, but she chose to play it up the neck. Nevertheless, a beautiful song, played so well by a beautiful woman.

John Gribble - Posted - 03/18/2020:  00:36:07

The right hand is playing a tremolo a la classical guitar. Brother Pete describes the technique in his banjo book. He used the technique on occasion himself.

A lovely recording. Thanks.

Eric A - Posted - 03/18/2020:  01:34:05

Her book has small sections on a great many banjo styles. Whatever she's doing, it's probably in there.

geoB - Posted - 03/18/2020:  03:40:47

The old Pete Seeger how to play the 5-string banjo book is "basically" a folk style approach.

Peggy sounds like she's playing folk style banjo, which to me is an amalgam of arpeggiated fingerstyle stylings borrowed from the guitar and banjo. A hybrid or genre not exclusive to only folk.

I listen to folk music occasionally, the when I was young attending family reunions with guitar in hand I had a lot of older cousins, (it was a big family) and they were into folk singing.

Between polka dancing, Venetian festival, hootenanny sing alongs, lots of good food and bonfires, the summertime adventure to mom's hometown in Northern Michigan were good times.

Eric A - Posted - 03/18/2020:  04:02:03

quote:

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Originally posted by Eric A

Her book has small sections on a great many banjo styles. Whatever she's doing, it's probably in there.

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Yeesh! Pricey.  I guess I better put mine in a plastic bag!  (but when I die,my kids will dump it off at a thrift store).

Peggy Seeger: The Five String Banjo American Folk Styles

Edited by - Eric A on 03/18/2020 04:05:41

Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/18/2020:  07:49:16

I had a copy of Peggy's book myself, purchased in 1966. Sadly, it was lost in a fire in 1991. In regard to my interest I will make an effort to contact her.

johnedallas - Posted - 03/19/2020:  14:18:25

quote:

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Originally posted by Liam Fliuch

I am interested in developing a "brimming" style of accompaniment that would be suitable for modal songs in Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

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Liam,

I haven't "got the Gaelic" myself, but as an Irishman educated partly in the Highlands of Scotland, I do like to sing those slow songs like "She moved through the fair" or "Slieve Gallon Brae". I often sing them unaccompanied, but the next best thing to that, I find, is a banjo played in the style of Peggy's "Pretty Saro". I do it in classic gCGBD tuning with classic 3 fingers.

The great advantage of this technique is that you can follow the speeding up and slowing down that is typical of sean nos singing - the banjo doesn't act as a "rhythmic strait-jacket". 

Cheers,

John

Lew H - Posted - 03/19/2020:  15:59:43

To me, it sounds like a 3-finger forward roll in double time.

mike gregory - Posted - 03/19/2020:  16:20:04

quote:

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Originally posted by ponty

youtube.com/watch?v=9KHtxDmUydg

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Thanks for the link, Ponty!

In my brain, I had her confused with Ronnie Gilbert, who performed with Pete in The Weavers.

Last saw Ronnie on TV, and she was fun to hear, but not as "Movie Star Pretty" as Peggy in the video.

Helix - Posted - 03/20/2020:  06:50:40

When I met her, I cried, she took both of my hands and said it was ok
I thought I would never have a chance to meet somebody like her

When we were in high school, They made us dress up in ties and sports coats to go to downtown Kansas City to listen to albums at Jenkins music in those little glass enclosed partitions from the ‘40’s
We listened to the Weavers, Woody, Peter, Peggy and Ewan McCall. The Highwaymen, Kingston Trio were 2nd string

Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/21/2020:  02:29:09

Dear Hangouters,
I had a brief and cordial reply from Peggy Seeger who says that she used the gCGBD tuning capoed up to E (as member Johnedallas surmised). Sure enough, it matches the recording. In an overly modest and wistful note she added "wish I could still play like that", but I doubt anyone could surpass her version, even today. She is still doing concerts and has recently published another autobiographical work. Check out her website: peggyseeger.com.

janolov - Posted - 03/21/2020:  03:28:07

In her book there is a detailed description of how she played pretty Saro (no tabs but the song melody and rhythm is presented). I will try to make a scan sometime during the weekend.

Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/21/2020:  05:51:06

That would be great, Jan Olov! I once had a copy myself -- one that I bought as a kid in 1966. Sadly, it was destroyed in a house fire in 1991.

janolov - Posted - 03/21/2020:  07:19:13

I have an old scanner at home so I had to make three different documents, and they seem to be upside down, but here is how Peggy describes how she plays Pretty Saro:

Pretty Saro page 3

Pretty Saro page 2

Pretty Saro page 1

 

Liam Fliuch - Posted - 03/21/2020:  08:18:14

Amazing Jan Olov! And believe me, I had no conscious recollection that her book --last read in the 60s -- had such a detailed explication of her Pretty Saro accompaniment! Thanks!

johnedallas - Posted - 03/23/2020:  14:49:11

Yes, Jan Olev, very interesting!
I didn't know about the Seegers when I was starting out on the banjo. That was back in the 1950s. All I had to learn from was a very slim, English tutor book, but it got me going with thumb, index and middle fingers, and the basic chords for the gCGBD tuning.
What Peggy explains in the instuctions you so kindly posted, is just what I eventually discovered based on the classic tuning and fingering - which Peggy uses here - combined with my Scots-Irish song tradition!
Thanks!
John