joecitizennn - Posted - 10/04/2018:  10:08:27

I have used both epoxy and cyanoacrylate for pearl inlay work and have found the latter to be superior in terms of creep. Epoxy seems to always be active, floating on warm days and sometimes causing inlays to rise slightly. Super glue provides a hard, instant filler that never moves. I have talked to several old timers who have warned that superglue will suddenly fail after many years. I have not managed to find anything online to substantiate this so I thought i would ask the pros here. Is superglue prone to age failure or is this just an old wives tale?

Edited by - joecitizennn on 10/04/2018 10:09:41

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 10/04/2018:  12:49:42

I think in either case (epoxy or cyanoacrylate) that the brand and type has a lot to do with how well they work and how long that work.

I've read stories about the faillure of superglue, but I haven't seen it happen in person, and some of the things I've used it for have so far lasted at least a decade. I always use the highest quality I can find and refuse to use those crappy little super market superglues. I also make sure that I use it on the appropriate materials. It doesn't work for everything.

I can see using it on inlays, although I've never tried it. If an inlay falls out, it's not usually difficult to glue it back in.

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 10/04/2018:  13:09:37

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I think in either case (epoxy or cyanoacrylate) that the brand and type has a lot to do with how well they work and how long that work.



I've read stories about the faillure of superglue, but I haven't seen it happen in person, and some of the things I've used it for have so far lasted at least a decade. I always use the highest quality I can find and refuse to use those crappy little super market superglues. I also make sure that I use it on the appropriate materials. It doesn't work for everything.



I can see using it on inlays, although I've never tried it. If an inlay falls out, it's not usually difficult to glue it back in.

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I agree with George.  I’ve used both.  I have repairs that are 30+ years old done with epoxy (I always use JB Weld) and 20+ year old repairs done with superglue.  Heck, I have some long-lasting repairs done with Elmer’s white glue that have survived a few decades, too.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 10/04/2018:  13:40:06

From Woodworker's Journal - FWIW, PVA is "Titebond" type glue:

Q:  "How Permanent is Cyanoacrylate Glue? - One can expect 30 years or more from good quality PVAs (polyvinyl acetates). What do the cyanoacrylate glues offer for durability?

A:  Cyanoacrylate, or super glue, can be permanent; however, it can degrade with exposure to moisture or some solvents like acetone. If the project is stored in ambient conditions, it should be a permanent fix. If the project is stored outside or in an area with temperature or humidity swings, bonds can degrade.

Note: PVA can also degrade and "creep" under moisture and humidity conditions.

 

Helix - Posted - 10/04/2018:  14:02:00

I know no jeweler uses superglue. It pickles.

banjobart - Posted - 10/04/2018:  17:00:17

It is important to keep cyanoacrylate glue in the fridge to keep it fresh and functioning properly.

mander - Posted - 10/04/2018:  17:13:42

quote:

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Originally posted by Helix

I know no jeweler uses superglue. It pickles.

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Pickles? You mean, tiny bubbles? Turns sour? I've never heard that in reference to glue before.

While we're on the topic, my ceramic gal just told me to use 527 multi-use glue on a ceramic project I'm doing. I'd never heard of it before. I claims to glue just about everything. Anyone ever use it?

Oh, and in my unprofessional opinion, everything is prone to age failure. Someday, even a hot babe such as I will succumb to the truth and admit I've got baggy eyes.

Edited by - mander on 10/04/2018 17:16:20

dlaughery1013 - Posted - 10/04/2018:  18:18:27

My wife uses that 527 glue for jewelry making; she glues stones into settings with it. Dave L.

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 10/05/2018:  00:02:49

quote:

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Originally posted by mander

quote:

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Originally posted by Helix

I know no jeweler uses superglue. It pickles.

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Pickles? You mean, tiny bubbles? Turns sour? I've never heard that in reference to glue before.

While we're on the topic, my ceramic gal just told me to use 527 multi-use glue on a ceramic project I'm doing. I'd never heard of it before. I claims to glue just about everything. Anyone ever use it?

 

Oh, and in my unprofessional opinion, everything is prone to age failure. Someday, even a hot babe such as I will succumb to the truth and admit I've got baggy eyes.

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Baggy eyes?  Heck, I’ve got other parts that are baggy, too, like upper arms, and . . . well, let’s not go there. 

Gravity is one of the prices we pay for becoming upright bipeds.

Edited by - Rawhide Creek on 10/05/2018 00:04:46

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/05/2018:  00:33:42

Just a note: PVA (white glue) is different from aliphatic resin (yellow glue). Elmer’s is PVA; Titebond (original) is aliphatic resin. Different polymers.

Helix - Posted - 10/05/2018:  05:13:59

I use Jeweler's glue.
I'm careful about where I put superglue into the environment and how to remove it

Quickstep192 - Posted - 10/05/2018:  06:08:38

Anyone know what the composition of jeweler's glue is?
I always thought it was just clear epoxy.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 10/05/2018:  09:06:20

I, too, am wondering whet is meant by "pickling." Kimchee is pickled, cucumbers have been pickled, Alcoholics get pickled, but I've never seen glue that got sour.

I suspect that jewelers don't use superglue because with really good jewelry, diamond rings and such, the stones are held in place with metal prongs, which is probably better than most adhesives and can be bent backward to remove the stone when someone wants to change the stone's setting; no potentially damaging solvents or heat are needed.

Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 10/05/2018:  10:22:59

I don't know how long it will last, but I do use it for inlays. I only use the stuff from Stew-Mac, mostly the #30 thick glue. I have had bottles last for a few years after opening and still work fine, though eventually they dry up.
Zach

mikehalloran - Posted - 10/05/2018:  11:30:59

CA cures in the presence of water vapor. How humid or dry the air is determines for me how long a bottle can last before I have to toss it.

I have yet to see a failure of any repair where it was the correct glue. There are times when it is not and those fail right away.

BNJOMAKR - Posted - 10/05/2018:  12:40:31

For what it's worth, I had some Stew Mac slow drying black and some clear slow drying epoxy that I bought about a year ago. I used a small amount of the black to inlay a neck which I was well pleased with the results, but when I went to use it again last week, one part had turned to a thick gel. I checked the other bottles of clear, and it had done the same thing. I didn't know that it would do that.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 10/05/2018:  12:42:36

Yep, use cyano on waxy plastics and it might not work long enough even to get a clamp on it.

As far as longevity, one of my lifelong friends had his hips replaced when in his twenties and the surgeons used a medical grade superglue to hold the new ones in place. They lasted about 20 years, but it was his pelvic bones and femurs that gave out, not the glue. (He's now on his third set of fake hip joints, and at no time has the replacement been done because of glue failure.)

pickin_fool - Posted - 10/05/2018:  13:04:42

i have never heard of any type of glue "pickling"...cukes get pickled..green beans get pickled..carrots get pickled..someone sitting in a bar all night can get pickled..but glue does not pickle

DC5 - Posted - 10/05/2018:  13:21:18

quote:

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Originally posted by BNJOMAKR

For what it's worth, I had some Stew Mac slow drying black and some clear slow drying epoxy that I bought about a year ago. I used a small amount of the black to inlay a neck which I was well pleased with the results, but when I went to use it again last week, one part had turned to a thick gel. I checked the other bottles of clear, and it had done the same thing. I didn't know that it would do that.

 

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Store it in the freezer and it will last for years, just let it warm to room temp before you use it.

desert rose - Posted - 10/05/2018:  23:32:21

Mikes comments above accurate and right on. Its been around for over FOUR DECADES, and continues top work perfectly

Scott

Helix - Posted - 10/06/2018:  05:22:41

I know you guys sometimes glue your frets, easy to undo with a soldering iron. Difficult to clean out.



I have a superglued knee and it's ten years old. Please, shouting the four decades in all caps will not make your point. Which Mike are you referring to? They both have brains, I've read their stuff.



There are superglue guitars, they take about 3 weeks to build. I have yet to see a superglued banjo.



"I've seen a housefly, I've seen a horsefly, I've even seen a butterfly, but I've never seen an elephant fly." Hang in there , there's still a bunch to learn.



CA is harder than epoxy, I have used it on inlays, too, it saved hours, but was more labor intensive. I don't use it for inlays anymore, just sawdust and epoxy.

Edited by - Helix on 10/06/2018 05:23:46

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 10/06/2018:  07:45:34

quote:

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Originally posted by desert rose

Mikes comments above accurate and right on. Its been around for over FOUR DECADES, and continues top work perfectly



Scott

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Actually, cyanoacrylate was first patented in 1942. It was basically an accidental discovery that happened as part of wartime research, but was rejected for wartime purposes. Revisited in 1951, its commercial uses became more clear and it was then released by Eastman Kodak for general sale in 1958. It wasn't until the 1970s that it became widely used, though. I am certain that some of that was because people hadn't completely figured out how to use it and all the things it could be used for.