ironmike - Posted - 12/14/2017:  14:49:55

After years of dreaming, I started banjo lessons last week and I am loving it.

I only get 30 minutes per week with my instructor, who tuned my rental banjo and introduced me to Cripple Creek (from Earl Scruggs's book) in our first session. I have a lot of enthusiasm now so would like to supplement these short sessions with extracurricular practice.

I have never played an instrument before and am wondering what resources (or previous posts) folks would recommend so that I can do the grunt work at home and utilize instructor time as effectively as possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Glad I found BHO!

stanleytone - Posted - 12/14/2017:  15:04:40

you can always look on youtube for banjo stuff. but a word to the wise. if your instructor knows his stuff and is a good teacher, concentrate on what he gives you. better to get good at a little than to be mediocre at a lot.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  15:13:34

I would suggest you look at beginning banjo instruction books.  That way you will have the basics at hand whether your instructor is there or not.  You need to get familiar with the basics before you start looking at U-tube and trying to figure out what they're doing and why... especially since you're new and never played an instrument before.

There are many excellent beginner books  out there, so look at several and decide which  you like best.  Check out Janet Davis' You Can Teach Yourself Banjo with CD and/or DVD, Jack Hatfield's Beginning Bluegrass Banjo Books 1 (followed by 2 and 3), Eddie Collins has a book out, as do several members here on the Hangout.  You can also checkout online lessons, either one-on-one via Skype or lessons given by website.  If you already have a teacher, you may not want another one right now, so that's just a suggestion you can take or discard. 

Mooooo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  15:57:32

I suggest you don't look for any extra materials to study at all. Your instructor has experience teaching, hopefully, and has a plan for you to follow. I think you should practice what he taught you over and over, slow it down and think about every movement you are doing, the sounds you are making, the clarity of the notes, how your finger plays only the note you are fretting and isn't interfering with the other notes. Think about your timing. Are you making it to your next note or chord in time, too slowly, too soon? If you practice your heart out and come back playing extremely well, I am sure you will get something more challenging next time. Good luck, have fun and be patient.

Edited by - Mooooo on 12/14/2017 15:59:50

gclaunch - Posted - 12/14/2017:  15:59:29

Had your first lesson and are really wired and want more? Great! Google Rick Mckeon banjo. He has a wealth of information for people just beginning..."grunt work". The only caution is to realize that different teachers present a lot of the same information with different nuances and and sequences...with that in mind, I would recommend deferring to your teacher for guidance until you get a good handle on what's going on and the directions you want to go.
The banjo is fun, enjoy it and good luck.

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/14/2017:  16:08:42

Great suggestions above.  Two other good books are Bluegrass Banjo by Pete Wernick and Getting into Bluegrass Banjo by Alan Munde.

No need to load up on books at this point in your banjo adventure, but something in addition to the Scruggs book is a good idea, since the Scruggs book isn't really an instructional method.  It does cover the basics of chords and rolls, introduces some licks and of course has tablature for complete songs.  But the songs are not presented in an way that one builds on another; they're intended to help you progress as a player.

So an actual instruction method that presents what you need to know in a sequence that makes sense is a helpful thing to have.

If something in a book seems to contradict what your teacher says, do not assume the teacher is wrong.  Ask about it.  Teachers usually have their reasons for what they teach and how they play.

Good luck.

ironmike - Posted - 12/14/2017:  16:28:41

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Watching videos of Cripple Creek by JeffLowson and williamanesbitt helped me think about the song more systematically and being able to replay vs. remember is a huge help.

My instructor is a classically trained guitarist first, so very different background from me, but I will ask for advice on extra material to supplement our lessons.

monstertone - Posted - 12/14/2017:  16:35:20

While the Scruggs book may not be laid out in a logical order for learning, it's all there. And since your instructor started you out with material from that book,,,,there's your clue. He is likely very familiar with the book. And he should have a plan, a logical order of presenting the material within. That's what instructors are for.

Others have said it here, and Earl said it many times through out his book, do your homework, practice, repeat 1000x. Maximize your practice time. Show up for your lesson each week having your assignment nailed,,,eager & ready for the next challenge. Do that & you will progress much faster than were you to spend hours watching you tube.

I found Earl's bio in the book inspirational. 

Edited by - monstertone on 12/14/2017 16:45:59

Mooooo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  16:50:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironmike

My instructor is a classically trained guitarist first, so very different background from meal , but I will ask for advice on extra material to supplement our lessons.

---

Disregard what I said earlier and reconsider your instructor. It should be against the law for guitarists to teach banjo, especially if it's a classical guitarist. You wouldn't take saxophone lessons from a flutist.

Ric in Richmond - Posted - 12/14/2017:  17:11:50

jsutergraphix.com/LOTW/

Look up the beginner section and later the chord groupings.

Thank you Mr. Boulding!!!

banjoboyone - Posted - 12/14/2017:  17:46:32

This (I'm surprised nobody here has suggested it yet)

This  (not just for clawhammer players)

And this 

...that ought to keep you busy for awhile.

Boadicea - Posted - 12/14/2017:  17:59:46

Whatever your teacher says just practise that over and over.

Really drill it in to your new neural pathways, and build up what your teacher taught you, demostrated to you, into substantial muscle memory.

Listen, listen, listen, listen, listen and listen some more. We have a great jukebox, and MP3s and Videos that are uploaded to our BHO, and you can learn a lot by listening! Go to youtube and similar sites and listen some more. Listen to Cripple Creek at beginner's levels, intermediate level's etc. The more that you listen to Cripple Creek you will have more to draw upon yourself to create music, once you get past the learning the basics stage. (I am firmly camping in the learning basics stage at this stage!)

Practise your strumming, it looks deceptively simple but a lot of practising needs to go into really having nuanced control of your strumming.

Practise your rolls, it looks deceptively simple but a lot of practising needs to go into developing skills to really have a nuanced control of your various rolls. You will need to be able to identify not only a whole roll, but a half of a roll, and then bits of rolls at different times. I can do a whole roll and some half rolls but my banjo teacher points out to me bits of rolls.

So I would suggest playing your strums and rolls softly, loudly, slowly, fast, and any combinations of these.

There is a group of hardy, dedicated, intrepid practising folks, who belong to a group called "The Practise Group", banjohangout.org/group/thepracticegroup come along and share some enthusiasm.

There are some good books to read such as "The Practise of Practise" by Jonathan Harnum, thepracticeofpractice.com/ and "The Musician's Way" by Gerald Klickstein, musiciansway.com/ and "First, Learn to Practice" by Tom Heany, these are not banjo specific books, they are general musician books, but you can extrapolate across!

csacwp - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:12:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mooooo

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironmike

My instructor is a classically trained guitarist first, so very different background from meal , but I will ask for advice on extra material to supplement our lessons.

---

Disregard what I said earlier and reconsider your instructor. It should be against the law for guitarists to teach banjo, especially if it's a classical guitarist. You wouldn't take saxophone lessons from a flutist.

---

This is hogwash.  Just because the guy is a classical guitarist doesn’t mean he isn’t a fantastic banjoist.  And what do you mean “especially if he is a classical guitarist”... are you intimidated by serious musicians?

thisoldman - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:36:51

Stick with your teacher's plan. Unless you are a gifted musician, it will probably take more than a week to really master that first tune. If you have time on your hands, and need more banjo stuff to think about, start working on learning the full G, A, C and D chords up and down the fretboard, using the 3 basic chord shapes. Listen to BG music and start working on listening for chord changes and progressions. Start learning about backup - John Boulding's site is an excellent place to start. And watch John's LOTW on the job of the banjo, Lessons 74-76. It will be a lot to absorb, and not much will likely stick, but you will begin to appreciate how much there is to learn.

thisoldman - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:53:14

I almost forgot -- there are a number of arrangements for Cripple Creek here on the HO and out there on the net. If you don't have TEFview, download it for free, here tabledit.com/tefview/  Look at the arrangements, compare how they are same/different from the one you are working on and if listening to the TEF files, the subtle differences in the arrangements. And when you're ready, play along with some backup, here fbbts.com/Tunes.html

Edited by - thisoldman on 12/14/2017 18:55:34

Mooooo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  20:43:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by csacwp

This is hogwash.  Just because the guy is a classical guitarist doesn’t mean he isn’t a fantastic banjoist.  And what do you mean “especially if he is a classical guitarist”... are you intimidated by serious musicians?

---

I have to admit that you may be 100% correct in that he may be a fantastic banjo picker...but in my experience most classical guitarists don't know how to improvise and rely on sheet music to learn music and perform it as memorized while a good banjo picker plays by ear and can pick up tunes  pretty easily on the fly. I have met a lot of guitarists who believe that banjo is an easy instrument to learn and I have also met some that teach banjo and they have no business doing it whatsoever because they don't really understand the instrument. Since the OP mentioned that he is learning Cripple Creek from the Scruggs Book I am assuming he will be playing bluegrass...now the first thing that came to my mind when I read Classical Guitarist was fingerpicking....with no picks, and then I looked back and reread that the this instructor is using the Scruggs book instead of a more appropriate beginner book. Well, I added this up iin my brain and assumed that, he may not be the best person for the job. I could be wrong, and as you know, the advice given on this sight is all opinion, so I gave mine. Take it or leave it.

Now I have a question for you. when you asked "And what do you mean “especially if he is a classical guitarist”... are you intimidated by serious musicians?" Are you suggesting that all classical guitarists are serious musicians and Bluegrass musicians aren't serious musicians? And to answer your question, I am not intimidated by serious musicians, I just don't go to a lemon tree to pick apples. ...you used hogwash in a sentence...

Edited by - Mooooo on 12/14/2017 20:51:33

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/15/2017:  05:09:30

Okay, let's play nice and not get into an argument over whether guitarists can play banjo or not, oaky?

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 12/15/2017:  06:36:52

Read this right now.



drbanjo.com/instructional-anew...music.php

Rick McKeon - Posted - 12/15/2017:  08:28:11

Hey Mike,

Welcome to the BHO forum. You are starting on a fun journey! As Gerald mentioned above I have posted a bunch of free lessons here rickmckeon.com/banjolessons.html that might make a good supplement to your in-person lessons.

Earl Scruggs played the guitar. Maybe not classical, but he was good. :)

Rick

banjoman56 - Posted - 12/15/2017:  09:56:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

Read this right now.



drbanjo.com/instructional-anew...music.php

---

This is a great article Ira. It should be mandatory reading for all teachers and students!

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/15/2017:  10:14:57

Here's my two cents on this. Make sure your "banjo teacher" is actually a capable bluegrass three finger player, who uses finger picks and who understands this genre and style of music. I say this will all due respect to any and all classical guitarist, so there's no need for them to pounce on me now.

The reason I say this is from thirty years of teaching, both in large music stores and seeing many "banjo teachers" who were classic guitarists, rock guitarists, etc who understand the concept of "rolling chords". These players often compare basic rolls in bluegrass banjo to the rolling chord finger movements and then assume they interchange generically. This qualifies them to teach BG banjo of course (grins). Often the "teacher" is reading in various beginner books and if no more than a few pages ahead of the student. In other words they are teaching themselves how to teach banjo while being paid.

Am I saying that your teacher is not a fantastic bluegrass banjo player,no I am not. But beginners can see anyone playing a typical roll pattern, or play a song decently and think  "this person knows bluegrass banjo". From my thirty years of teaching I can honestly say the number of great classical guitarists who taught banjo that actually were great BG banjo players is about 1percent. It's not that it doesn't exist, but that it's rare in teaching circles for this to be the case. It far more likely to have a teacher who has become a solid bluegrass player who teaches, say, Travis style guitar. The reason is swing syncopation similarity, the use of rolls with picks,etc,etc. 

If I were to use a reverse argument position, classical players with lots of experience teaching would say to be cautious of a hardcore bluegrass banjo player being the teacher you need to learn serious classic guitar. Is it possible that a Hardcore BG banjo player is qualified to teach real classic guitar, yes but again the percentage arent in favor,haha. 

I say all of this to just maybe add, hopefully, so clarification to the thread in regards to your teacher. If he is a great BG banjo player definitely stick with him/her. As far as the other sources online, I think you have gotten lots of responses on that and will likely get many more. Whatever source you find,teacher or online, make sure the person showing you knows how BG banjo works and can do I tell themselves. 

Welcome to the banjo and the BHO,

ironmike - Posted - 12/15/2017:  10:51:21

Thanks again all. I have read some, joined the practice group, and have bookmarked other articles and suggestions to review this weekend.

I had another lesson last night and I am not so sure. Just practice Cripple Creek. Granted, I don't have the song close yet but I was asking for practice techniques and resources that could be put together to make my technique of individual portions come together better -- practicing dribbling separately from passing and shooting a basketball and then bringing them together in a scrimmage later.

Granted again, I am a total newbie to learning music but the logic of learning components and then the whole makes more sense to me than just trying to play a full song with slides, pushes, hammer-ons, second endings, etc, from the get go.

Am I crazy?

Mooooo - Posted - 12/15/2017:  10:56:07

no more crazy than the rest of us....but yes, you are included in the communal crazy :)

ironmike - Posted - 12/15/2017:  11:02:41

Forgot to mention:
- Instructor doesn't use fingerpicks but not opposed to them. I think it is a flexibility thing
- Believes in playing by tab (not memory or ear) so can read and understand the music

I think I want to use fingerpicks but is there any strong reason not too?

Tab seems handy and pretty easy to learn but the thought of being able to play by ear is enticing. Learn both?

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/15/2017:  11:13:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironmike

Forgot to mention:

- Instructor doesn't use fingerpicks but not opposed to them. I think it is a flexibility thing

- Believes in playing by tab (not memory or ear) so can read and understand the music



I think I want to use fingerpicks but is there any strong reason not too?



Tab seems handy and pretty easy to learn but the thought of being able to play by ear is enticing. Learn both?

---

Mooooo can be very prophetic.

I think you should seek a different teacher.

Edited by - FlyinEagle on 12/15/2017 11:15:12

Rick McKeon - Posted - 12/15/2017:  11:21:25

As a classically trained guitarists he probably uses bare fingers and takes very good care of his nails or uses acrylic nails. To get a true bluegrass sound you need to use picks.

Does he discourage you from wrapping your thumb around the neck? That's a sign of the classical approach vs. folk, blues and bluegrass.

Rick

ironmike - Posted - 12/15/2017:  11:35:25

Rick McKeon
No, focused on getting the position of the banjo such that left hand was free to move around (not support the banjo). Seems knowledgeable and appreciates the banjo but stringed athlete vs. banjo specialist.

FlyinEagle
I'm in for a 13 week quarter. I think I can get fundamentals, positioning, and learning without bad habits in that time. Then I'll re-evaluate. Part of the challenge is with San Francisco traffic there are not a ton of options for in-person instruction.

monstertone - Posted - 12/15/2017:  11:48:24

I am in total agreement with what John is saying in the above post. We cannot, should not automatically jump to conclusions based on blanket statements or assumptions. After all music is music, right? Well yes & no.

There are limitations to what can be put on paper. Perhaps best described as style. So one must ask themselves how likely is is that  an AAA stylist is fully cognizant of all the ins & outs, idiosyncrasies of ZZZ style? The answer for now, remains to be seen. There is however, a lot which is interchangeable, knowledge that can be passed on, until one reaches a point where the differences of disciplines begin to become apparent. A good tutor will recognize when the student is approaching that point, and cut the student loose.

The one glaring difference that stands out to me, is the different right hand style between classical finger style guitar & Earl's BG banjo style. (Just look at the picture in the book of how Earl holds his right hand) As a beginner, I would not have picked up on that difference between the two picking styles. And Earl played the guitar the same way. 

Edited by - monstertone on 12/15/2017 11:51:05

bluenote23 - Posted - 12/15/2017:  12:13:35

quote:

---

Originally posted by ironmike

Forgot to mention:

- Instructor doesn't use fingerpicks but not opposed to them. I think it is a flexibility thing

- Believes in playing by tab (not memory or ear) so can read and understand the music



I think I want to use fingerpicks but is there any strong reason not too?



Tab seems handy and pretty easy to learn but the thought of being able to play by ear is enticing. Learn both?

---

I think being able to play with picks is pretty important. It is much, much, much more difficult for a beginner to play with picks than without them and so beginners often question the need for them.

You can play faster and louder with picks. If you want the bright tone of bluegrass banjo you really need to play with picks. It will probably be a great struggle but if you want something 'extra' to do, that will be it. You will spend all of your extra time getting used to the feeling of wearing picks. It took me 7 months to get used to them. Once you are able to play with picks, then you can decide if you want to play without them.

There is nothing wrong with learning from tab as long as you can learn to use it as a tool, not a crutch. Use tab to learn the song and then, throw away the tab, close your eyes and listen to what you play. That's the essential of playing by ear. Once you have gained a  lot of aural experience, that is you've heard and played a lot of what's being played, picking up things by 'ear' is not so difficult. 

But like anything in banjo, it will not happen overnight, or in a week, or in a month or, most likely not in a year. Be prepared for this to be a long term project and practice as much as you can and it will work out.

Edited by - bluenote23 on 12/15/2017 12:15:40

Boadicea - Posted - 12/15/2017:  23:11:16

My teacher worked out from listening to me play, and making a couple of mistakes that my thumb pick is too small. You do need a good teacher that knows the ropes, and starts to teach you to improvise, and learn the overarching themes of Scruggs style right from the beginning you don't want to have to spend hours and hours unlearning technique from someone who is not proficient.

pickin_fool - Posted - 12/16/2017:  14:34:07

if you wanna play bluegrass banjo, picks are a must...not wanting to slam your instructor but he sounds to me like a guitar player that is just supplementing his income...you live in frisco...there must be one or two bluegrass jams happening...attend a few...not as a player but as an audience...every jam I have been to allowed fans..if you hear a banjo player you like..approach him/her after and ask if they would teach you..most banjo players are happy to help a newbie...the main problem with learning on your own is if you learn something the wrong way...(which is easy to do as a newbie)...it is three times as hard to unlearn it and start over...good luck amd welcome to BH

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/16/2017:  20:26:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

Here's my two cents on this. Make sure your "banjo teacher" is actually a capable bluegrass three finger player, who uses finger picks and who understands this genre and style of music. I say this will all due respect to any and all classical guitarist, so there's no need for them to pounce on me now.

---

I mostly agree with this. But in my actual experience, my second teacher (who was my first teacher's teacher) was a classically trained guitarist who was also playing electric guitar in an innovative jazz-fusion band in the DC area. And also a pretty good banjo player.  He played banjo with his long fingernails -- and played banjo the way it should be played.  By the time I started with him, I was learning a song a week. He'd play it to see if it was one I was interested in. Then he'd play it slow, dictate the notes and I'd write it out in tab. I'd play, he'd comment, and I was happy with what I was learning. He got me started on melodics and we devoted one lesson to licks instead of songs.  I think I took no more than 8 lessons from him. It was summer of 72. I stopped lessons when school resumed.

I think I only learned one thing "wrong" from him (if there's really anything wrong in bluegrass banjo) and that's fingering the 8-9 shape on 2nd and 1st strings with the index and middle finger instead of index and ring (as you would do if fingering a full E minor. I still do it that way.

Postscript: He went on to become a world renowned modern flamenco guitarist: Jorge Strunz.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 12/16/2017:  22:21:55

How does your teacher feel about you anchoring your right hand on the head? Reading, rather than playing by ear is also a classical approach. I understand the difficulties of finding a good teacher ( you should look up Bill Evans) but if you love bluegrass banjo, sooner or later you will want lessons from someone who loves, eats and breathes bluegrass banjo.

wallflower - Posted - 12/17/2017:  13:40:00

Oldtime genre music doesn’t use fingerpicks but bluegrass does. Talk with your instructor about using them. If you want to learn bluegrass, you need to get used to wearing them. As for other things you can work on without your instructor, I suggest chords. As a beginner, your fingers will be clumsy for a good while so learning chords with each practice will help your hands get used to the odd stretches.

maryzcox - Posted - 12/17/2017:  18:53:50

One week ? Stay with your teacher for about 6 months before confusing yourself with an overload of info to distract u from the basics :)  if you have to supplement your lessons—it would do you far more musical good to take vocal lessons & dancing lessons —yoga is good too to increase your stamina & concentration . Banjo is a lot like tennis—you have to build your body strength—it is not just a mental exercise :)

Best wishes,

Mary Z Cox

Banjophobic - Posted - 12/17/2017:  20:04:04

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjophobic

Here's my two cents on this. Make sure your "banjo teacher" is actually a capable bluegrass three finger player, who uses finger picks and who understands this genre and style of music. I say this will all due respect to any and all classical guitarist, so there's no need for them to pounce on me now.

---

I mostly agree with this. But in my actual experience, my second teacher (who was my first teacher's teacher) was a classically trained guitarist who was also playing electric guitar in an innovative jazz-fusion band in the DC area. And also a pretty good banjo player.  He played banjo with his long fingernails -- and played banjo the way it should be played.  By the time I started with him, I was learning a song a week. He'd play it to see if it was one I was interested in. Then he'd play it slow, dictate the notes and I'd write it out in tab. I'd play, he'd comment, and I was happy with what I was learning. He got me started on melodics and we devoted one lesson to licks instead of songs.  I think I took no more than 8 lessons from him. It was summer of 72. I stopped lessons when school resumed.

I think I only learned one thing "wrong" from him (if there's really anything wrong in bluegrass banjo) and that's fingering the 8-9 shape on 2nd and 1st strings with the index and middle finger instead of index and ring (as you would do if fingering a full E minor. I still do it that way.

Postscript: He went on to become a world renowned modern flamenco guitarist: Jorge Strunz.

---

Ken

Im glad that teacher worked out for you. My comments are just observations over thirty years of seeing 'pseudo' banjo teachers who really dont know enough to really teach BG style banjo. The O.P. teacher might be aware of of enough of the basics to start him in the right way, with picks and knowing how to convey the syncopation and drive concepts. it really is crucial for the teacher to really 'know' how this style works, from an actually player view and not just from an outsider looking in.

Yury - Posted - 12/18/2017:  06:35:34

The teacher doesn't use picks? Not sure I understand. Are we talking about blugrass? That's just weird and to me would be a big red flag.

I am on my first year myself, so take what I say with a bucket of salt.

I am not entirely sure one needs an in-person teacher, especially of there are doubts about their background. Myself, I am using Tony Thrishka's online school at ArtistWorks. Typically to master an assignment it takes me several weeks at least. During that time all I need is me, my banjo and an hour, hour and a half of quiet time. Just don't see a need for regular lessons with a person. Tony is quite responsive to video submissions and responds with a personal video back. His responses are detailed and he will play some stuff just for you. I find it pretty nice. The subscription price is reasonable and once you sign up they start giving you holiday specials that reduce the renewal price significantly. I don't think Tony makes a lot of money doing this.

There are some limitations to this method however. For example he is a little light on things like hand placement for fretting. But, an occasional google search supplements it nicely. Overall I came to see these "limitations" as beneficial because it makes me work through my mistakes on my own and gain a better understanding of mechanics of my own hands. It just makes me think and experiment.

I was using him from day one and just see no need for in-person, especially in Toronto where there is no banjo tradition to speak of.



Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with ArtistWorks.

Edited by - Yury on 12/18/2017 06:37:46

ironmike - Posted - 12/18/2017:  10:22:41

Thanks again all for the thoughtful responses. I have had my hands full going through the resources you all have shared and I'm blown away by how helpful everyone has been. Very glad I found BHO!

I received my finger picks on Thursday and my playing immediately sounded more "bluegrassy". They take a little getting used to but no noticeable decrease in my rolls (my right hand is much much better at this point then my left). I will most definitely continue using them.

My instructor is a musician first and banjo player second or third. So I think part of the non-picking is transferable skills between stringed instruments. That is not an issue for me as it is banjo or bust. Also, regarding right hand position, instructor does focus on holding the head firmly (not with left) and anchoring ring and pinkie.

I think my plan in the near term will be to supplement my lessons (continue focusing on technique) with some of the nice videos folks have been suggested. Jim Pankey's Learn to Play Bluegrass Banjo series seems to be what I was looking for: repetitions of the fundamentals that will come together in songs. Plenty of other good ones as well and I need to work on chords but that is not nearly as fun with my clumsy fingers. :)

Going forward, I will likely seek out another instructor, hopefully local but maybe via video, to get the value of their bluegrass experience, since that is what I am interested in and I imagine there are a ton of little things that you pick up along the path.

Mooooo - Posted - 12/18/2017:  10:38:15

If nobody mentioned the left hand position, you should watch some Bluegrass tutorials on how it's done. You don't want to hold your banjo like a classical guitarist would (thumb poking into the middle of the back of the neck). It is something that works for the classical guitarists, but only used occasionally in Bluegrass picking. In general the thumb wraps around....check out a video if you're not already holding it like a bluegrasser. Btw, you say your instructor is a musician first and a banjo player second or third...well, banjo pickers are musicians first too, some better than others, but that's the way it is with any instrument.

Edited by - Mooooo on 12/18/2017 10:40:06

ironmike - Posted - 12/18/2017:  10:53:38

Another question for you folks: I am traveling home (IL) and Mexico for Christmas and New Years, so banjo-less for nearly two weeks. What are your thoughts on using a Practice Board hatfieldmusic.com/page7.html while I am traveling to keep practicing? At least I would be able to keep working rolls. I don't want to lose steam while I am in the practice groove.

Is there anything to help practice fretting or other resources / techniques I should look into while on the road?

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/18/2017:  11:03:51

Hi, Yury.

I agree with everything you say about Tony T's banjo school at Artistworks.  I've been a member since spring of 2015.  Started with a 90-day gift from my son. Here's a hint: Go to your account settings and turn off automatic renewal.  That way, you'll be sure you can take advantage of whatever the then-current discount is when your subscription comes up for renewal.  They post a 20-25% off coupon code here on the Hangout from time-to-time. I once saw 30% coupon after I'd already re-upped.  Also you can go to RetailMeNot.com or just Google "Artistworks coupon code" to find a current offer. 

I consider myself a moderately advanced player and I get a lot out of Tony's school.  Besides some of the lessons in advanced technique (I'm just now starting on single string), I really enjoy the variations that Tony offers up on the tunes that students post and the improv he does at the end of his video responses. Since you can now slow down the videos, it's easier to grab what he's doing.

The only drawback I see to this learning approach is the lack of immediacy.  Tony can't see, discuss and correct what you're doing right now -- the way a live in-person or real-time online teacher could.  On the other hand, something good about online schools -- including Banjo Ben Clark and others -- is that you can proceed at your own pace.  Some players might not be ready for a new lesson in a week, or even two.

Back to the central issue of who's an appropriate teacher:  It appears to me from previous comments that we can agree there's nothing inherently wrong with a classical guitarist teaching three-finger banjo as long as they are a true multi-instrumentalist who approaches each instrument in its appropriate style.

Edited by - Old Hickory on 12/18/2017 11:04:22

Yury - Posted - 12/18/2017:  11:13:55

In regards to planting both pinkie and ring fingers of your right hand. They will tell you that but the truth is is depends on your particular hand. My pinkie is short so I only plant my middle. I started doing it a couple weeks into my practice and felt immediately freer.

Edited by - Yury on 12/18/2017 11:14:33

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/18/2017:  11:17:40

quote:

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Originally posted by Banjophobic

Ken

Im glad that teacher worked out for you. My comments are just observations over thirty years of seeing 'pseudo' banjo teachers who really dont know enough to really teach BG style banjo.

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Got it.

I think the main reason he worked out for me is that for the summer I took lessons he was ahead of me.  I only stopped taking lessons because I couldn't keep it up when the fall semester started.  And by then, I was doing pretty good learning on my own off of records and from players at a jam who were always happy to share things. 

ironmike - Posted - 01/04/2018:  09:59:10

Just a quick update: I've been using Jim Pankey 's excellent videos to practice and brought in an alternative version of Cripple Creek tab, close but not exactly what Jim teaches, to my lesson.

Good news: my instructor is onboard with the alternative and seems to value the initiative!

Bad news: my rental banjo 5th string keeps coming out of tune and several of the strings seems to reverb too much. My instructor re-tuned and stuck a piece of paper between the strings in the area between the bridge and where the strings are clamped. Need to get fixed or buy my own banjo... :)

Thanks again everyone!

bluenote23 - Posted - 01/04/2018:  12:18:31

If by 'reverb' you mean that the banjo sounds 'echo-y' then that is likely because the head is too loose.



You need the proper tools to make adjustments though if you have them (basically a banjo nut wrench of some sort) then tightening up the head is pretty simple.

Edited by - bluenote23 on 01/04/2018 12:18:58

ironmike - Posted - 01/04/2018:  12:30:14

Thanks @bluenote23. That is the issue.

I am still finding my way on the BHO site. Any suggestions either here or broader that could teach me how to do this repair?

Mooooo - Posted - 01/04/2018:  13:21:32

quote:

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Originally posted by ironmike

Bad news: my rental banjo 5th string keeps coming out of tune and several of the strings seems to reverb too much. My instructor re-tuned and stuck a piece of paper between the strings in the area between the bridge and where the strings are clamped. Need to get fixed or buy my own banjo... :)

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You should take your banjo to where you are renting it from and have them set it up for you. You are paying to rent a working banjo, they should make sure it works otherwise pay them half and fix it yourself.

I am sensing a disturbance in the Force....Classical Guitarist for a Banjo instructor + Questionable Rental Banjo Setup = Guitar Center.....are you taking banjo lessons at Guitar Center?

warpdrive - Posted - 01/04/2018:  13:29:23

"AND THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMMING"!

ironmike - Posted - 01/04/2018:  13:42:17

quote:

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Originally posted by Mooooo

You should take your banjo to where you are renting it from and have them set it up for you. You are paying to rent a working banjo, they should make sure it works otherwise pay them half and fix it yourself.

I am sensing a disturbance in the Force....Classical Guitarist for a Banjo instructor + Questionable Rental Banjo Setup = Guitar Center.....are you taking banjo lessons at Guitar Center?

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You have a great sense of humor. No this is a well regarded music center in SF. I think it is more of a case where they have banjo instruction and rentals but only for the oddballs like me; not a common request.

I am planning to follow up with them on the repair but could be nice rationale to explain to fiance why I "need" to buy one. :)