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Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/08/2014: 09:55:01
Were the Weymann Megaphone banjo rims block made or laminated or what?
rudy - Posted - 06/08/2014: 10:18:44
Here ya go:
Leslie R - Posted - 06/08/2014: 10:38:45
It would be pretty cool if someone had an actual schematic drawing of one. I am intrigued by Weymann banjo construction, but I can not find any recordings of one. I would like to know how they sound.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/08/2014: 10:48:59
Thanks, Rudy
That's a lot of bending and laminating and machining. I'm going to try a couple out of blocks. Should be a fun challenge. I'm thinking of it as a variation on the wood flange rims I've made.
revellfa - Posted - 06/08/2014: 10:52:03
Dan--with as good as your rims already are I can't wait to see what your Weymann style block rim will be like. Weymans with the megaphonic rims are much underrated IMHO.
Leslie R - Posted - 06/08/2014: 14:03:07
Whatever Bob is playing, that is a sweet sounding banjo. I really like that.
Bill - Posted - 06/08/2014: 17:27:10
Howie Bursen plays one. Look for any recording by him. BTW, his Banjo Manikin CD is one everyone should own.
rudy - Posted - 06/08/2014: 18:00:28
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pennington
Thanks, Rudy
That's a lot of bending and laminating and machining. I'm going to try a couple out of blocks. Should be a fun challenge. I'm thinking of it as a variation on the wood flange rims I've made.
It wouldn't be much of a problem doing the stepped laminations as each one is relatively narrow, but the inner lamination would be tricky as it would end up being a truncated cone segment. I've never seen an actual example, but if I were going to do one I'd do the inner lamination in 4 bookmatched quadrants so the grain would match and to make the best use of material. I believe part of the Weymann's claim to fame was based on the laminated rim, so the block construction would most likely lend an entirely different tonality to it.
mikehalloran - Posted - 06/08/2014: 18:17:01
Wasn't Jerry Garcia's banjo one of these? The Old and in the Way recordings from the Boarding House are well known. I saw one of those shows and remember him playing a Weymann but don't know the models at all.
youtube.com/watch?v=PN-Lka3nqm0
Dan Drabek - Posted - 06/08/2014: 18:20:08
It looks to me like the most practical way to fabricate that rim would be to glue-up up a thick rim including both segments. Then it would be a simple (relatively) job to machine the outside top of the outside part, and the taper on the inner part. You would then have to veneer the inside with an additional layer. I've seen a few old high-end Weymanns, and both outer and inner veneers were beautiful Brazilian rosewood. A very impressive banjo.
Another unusual aspect of the Weymann pots was that the tension hooks passed through the outer portion of the rim, eliminating the need for bracket shoes, and creating a smooth surface on the outside of the pot. The nuts were countersunk into the heel cap. A very clever design. The few Weymanns I've played sounded good, and with a proper set-up would probably sound very good.
DD
Dan Drabek - Posted - 06/08/2014: 18:23:20
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloran
Wasn't Jerry Garcia's banjo one of these? The Old and in the Way recordings from the Boarding House are well known. I saw one of those shows and remember him playing a Weymann but don't know the models at all.
NIce catch, Mike. Sure looks like one.
David Lindley also had a Weymann that he sold to a friend of mine. It was a good player too.
DD
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/08/2014: 19:15:09
Yeah, Garcia played a Weymann for some years before transitioning to a Mastertone. I always liked the Weymann.
Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 06/08/2014: 20:19:07
bill
do you still have the Mega I sold you some years back? neck by the late bob buckingham.
lew
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/08/2014: 22:37:55
Yeah Lew,
Don't plan to sell it either. Because of its tonal quality, I keep it in Cumberland Gap tuning (f#BEAD) and play it in D. One of these days I'll fix up the Weymann reso I acquired, and fit it to that banjo.
Bill
Leslie R - Posted - 06/08/2014: 22:42:14
Cumberland tuning. I'll have to look into that.
rudy - Posted - 06/09/2014: 05:00:04
Thought I'd post the companion image to what I'd posted for theWeymann rim. This one shows the business end, with recessed gearing for the tuners.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/09/2014: 05:44:33
Here's my plan for a Weymann-esque block rim. The first will be a woody tone ring version that will use an 11 inch head and tension hoop with standard hooks and nuts. That will make the base of the rim about 12 1/2 in. across. With a standard 5 string neck, that will put the bridge about 3/4 in. more into the center of the head..
Leslie R - Posted - 06/09/2014: 06:18:01
I think that would fit in a Gibson type resonator. Am I correct? I am the person that requested this, by the way. I think this is gonna be a cool banjo.
rudy - Posted - 06/09/2014: 07:20:47
Dan, You might consider that the Weymann design extends upward closer to the head. Your rim design might prove to effectively reduce the aperture diameter to the point on negating any advantages the megaphonic design has, if any. I haven't found any reason a woody ring needs to be particularly wide at the top.
You can shorten (or lengthen)the heel length of the neck to place the bridge anywhere you want it to be, particularly if you're doing a scooped neck where the absence of frets is seen as an advantage.
rudy - Posted - 06/09/2014: 07:22:42
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R
I think that would fit in a Gibson type resonator. Am I correct? I am the person that requested this, by the way. I think this is gonna be a cool banjo.
If you wanted to increase the resonator diameter. With the Weymann design the rim is already getting into pretty big territory. I've put a lot of time into thinking about the ramifications of a lot of these alternative rim designs; just realize that there are pluses and minuses to the equation.
Edited by - rudy on 06/09/2014 07:24:22
ZEPP - Posted - 06/09/2014: 07:25:44
Here are some photos of my Style 1 5-string's rim that I uploaded about a year ago. By coincidence, I have that banjo apart again at the moment, and can easily supply photos or measurements, if that is of any help...
Cheers,
ZEPP
Leslie R - Posted - 06/09/2014: 08:27:08
Talk about ingenuity and craftmanship. That is exhibit A.
Leslie R - Posted - 06/09/2014: 08:41:55
quote:
Originally posted by rudy
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R
I think that would fit in a Gibson type resonator. Am I correct? I am the person that requested this, by the way. I think this is gonna be a cool banjo.
If you wanted to increase the resonator diameter. With the Weymann design the rim is already getting into pretty big territory. I've put a lot of time into thinking about the ramifications of a lot of these alternative rim designs; just realize that there are pluses and minuses to the equation.
If the acoustic properties are a plus, and the logistics on building this, the minus, that is acceptable. Ultimately, what I'm after, is a 6 string banjo, but not a banjitar. I will be using a 5+1 setup, tuned to open G, using G,D,B,G, wound D, and a G. Both G's on 1 and 6 are high G. I have to use an 8ga string to tune it that high. I definitely want a resonator, but that may be challenging, or not possible.
The end result may be a flop, but I don't think it will be. I do enjoy trying new ideas. Sometimes the results are astounding, sometimes, good, but not as good as I had hoped.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/09/2014: 10:03:00
quote:
Originally posted by rudy
Dan, You might consider that the Weymann design extends upward closer to the head. Your rim design might prove to effectively reduce the aperture diameter to the point on negating any advantages the megaphonic design has, if any. I haven't found any reason a woody ring needs to be particularly wide at the top.
***************************************
Thanks, Rudy. I'll probably thin the tone ring down a bit and maybe go to an arch top cut. That will allow a straight megaphone cut right from the top.
Kind of like this:
Edited by - Dan Pennington on 06/09/2014 10:18:00
Leslie R - Posted - 06/09/2014: 10:32:05
How feasible would it be to leave the top squared in a way that would allow a flathead tonering installed?
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/09/2014: 11:44:38
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R
How feasible would it be to leave the top squared in a way that would allow a flathead tonering installed?
Yes, that can be done, but then you get to the shape in my first drawing.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 06/10/2014: 14:21:45
Check my earlier link to Gryphon's banjo. It has an MT ring on a Weymann-type shell.
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 06/10/2014 14:22:34
Dobe - Posted - 06/16/2014: 12:08:00
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R
.... I would like to know how they sound.
I think they sound awesome ! Just finished these two and have two more on deck in the works (tenor to 5 string conversions):
bad lighting here:
youtube.com/watch?v=r5NuV6CKdRg
a better look:
youtube.com/watch?v=z7krIiib1TQ
Leslie R - Posted - 06/16/2014: 13:39:18
I enjoyed that. What model was that? I have a style 85 tenor that should be here any day. I'm going to have a 6 string neck made for it. Not a guitar banjo neck, but a bluegrass banjo type neck. Will be tuned as G,D,B,G, wound D,G. The 2 high G's require 8 ga strings, though I have heard a 9 will work. I have not yet tried one. I hope they do.
Leslie R - Posted - 06/25/2014: 15:57:29
Could you do this for a 12 inch head?
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/26/2014: 06:14:52
I had to hesitate before answering. I had to check my lathe to see if it would swing a blank big enough for a 12 inch head. The finished wood flange will come out to about 13 1/2 inches. The rough blank would be out to about 14 1/2.
So, yes, I could do a rim for a 12 inch head.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/29/2014: 11:10:08
Here's the start of a weymannish block rim on my lathe. We'll see where it goes.
Leslie R - Posted - 06/29/2014: 13:01:03
Boy, howdy !! I gotta good feeling about this. Just look at it.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/29/2014: 13:12:14
Leslie
I think it will work.
Here's the outside and the tone ring inside done.
Next is to break it loose from the face plate, turn it around, mount it in a false jaw chuck and cut the megaphone shape inside.
Later this evening.
Edited by - Dan Pennington on 06/29/2014 13:14:29
Leslie R - Posted - 06/29/2014: 14:09:23
That is looking so good.
rudy - Posted - 06/29/2014: 15:18:15
Dan, I'm wondering why the center ring is such a large diameter? I'm probabvly looking at an optical illusion of what the finished profile will look like, though.
Edited by - rudy on 06/29/2014 15:25:30
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/29/2014: 15:57:52
Rudy
It does look strange in the rough. But, it worked out the way I planned it. The top ring is basicly an 11 in. rim. The bottom ring is a 12 1/2 in. rim. The top and the bottom rings are 3/4 in. thick. With the middle ring being a transition between the other two rims- 12 1/2 on the outside and approx. 10 inches on the inside. - because of the cone shape inside the whole thing.
Here it is off the lathe.
I'll do the drilling for the bracket hook holes tomorrow.
rudy - Posted - 06/29/2014: 17:36:28
Ah, I see. Without siting down with an open CAD program in front of me it looks like it will work out fine. My only thought is that the outer portion looks a bit bulky for the concept of the design. I realize if you're looking to recess the nuts that you'll need a substantial amount of material to the outside of the recesses.
My brain is thinking along other lines, as I'm currently working on an Ashborn rim that utilizes roughly the same concept for recessed hardware, but the part that does the tightening at the bottom is a much smaller Allen head bolt, so the bottom portion is much narrower. My bad!
MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 06/29/2014: 23:06:37
When I looked in to these Weyman rims, I was told they were not any better than anything else. I am seeing very different responses here.
etparadox - Posted - 06/30/2014: 00:09:56
They're different, but not necessarily better. It's a cool design and has an interesting sound. Is it superior to a Gibson, Vega, Stuart, etc? That's personal taste.
Leslie R - Posted - 06/30/2014: 04:38:33
That's kinda what I'm thinking. I like to try stuff out.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 06/30/2014: 10:12:37
Rudy
This first rim is just a proof of concept rim. To figure out cutting techniques and to see how much wood I need and where. After I drill the holes for the hooks, I may revise my dimensions a bit.
I've got the bottom of the rim at 3/4 in. I need enough wood to support a 7/16 in. hole for a 3/8 in. wide bracket wrench. So that the hook nuts will submerged in the rim.
rudy - Posted - 06/30/2014: 15:01:29
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pennington
Rudy
This first rim is just a proof of concept rim. To figure out cutting techniques and to see how much wood I need and where. After I drill the holes for the hooks, I may revise my dimensions a bit.
I've got the bottom of the rim at 3/4 in. I need enough wood to support a 7/16 in. hole for a 3/8 in. wide bracket wrench. So that the hook nuts will submerged in the rim.
Thanks, Dan. I would do things in the exact same manner, but relying on CAD to do an accurate cross section. Even after doing that it's often the visual outcome that makes the light bulb of refinement shine.
Are you going to fit a resonator to it?
Edited by - rudy on 06/30/2014 15:10:02
Leslie R - Posted - 06/30/2014: 15:56:12
I think this is a little too wide to fit a standard resonator. I wish I could somehow come up with a resonator that would work. Maybe it will happen somehow. Even w/o one, I think it's gonna be an outstanding instrument.
rudy - Posted - 06/30/2014: 19:33:33
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R
I think this is a little too wide to fit a standard resonator. I wish I could somehow come up with a resonator that would work. Maybe it will happen somehow. Even w/o one, I think it's gonna be an outstanding instrument.
Yes, it would have to be a custom resonator, but it would be getting a bit cumbersome with a standard resonator design. Perhaps the Weymann rim coupled with an internal resonator design?
Leslie R - Posted - 06/30/2014: 19:39:17
It would be cumbersome to some extent, but I could live with that.
OldPappy - Posted - 06/30/2014: 20:58:43
I am thinking about taking a 12" rim I already have, and building a laminated rim with a taper to fit inside. The 12" rim is 3/4" thick, so am thinking I could build one 12" outside, which would fit a 10 1/5" head. Could make the interior rim several ways, I am thinking about cutting a long taper on the edge of a white cedar board I have, steaming it, and bending it to fit inside the 12" rim, or it could even be made of steam able, bendable, plywood like I have used in boats.
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