UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  09:08:09

The dissolution extention in 1942

beezaboy - Posted - 03/03/2014:  09:48:17

Good work on the Bacon bankruptcy.

I once tried to get an old banjo bankruptcy file (Stewart & Bauer ca 1901) and the clerk told me that bankruptcy files are only kept for 20 years and are then discarded??  So, I gave up on that line of inquiry but maybe some are still available??

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  09:51:26

So a quick summary about the final years paraphrasing many other posts, but to have it all in one place:

Bacon Banjo Company was experiencing very poor financial results (mainly due to the Depression effect) when the 1938 hurricane hit.  

After their inventory and equipment were damaged as a results of the hurricane, they engaged Gretsch to use up any salvageable parts and made into workable banjos.

David L. Day filed the annual corporate report in Q1 1939 and soon after filed for bankruptcy the same year. 

Gretsch purchased everything that was leftover in 1940 (including equipment, patents, trademarks, etc..)

In 1942/43 Day & Lucy sold off the building and land.  As the dissolution documents allows us to presume, with the extension they were able to sell off some remaining assets.

And called 'er quits.

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/03/2014 09:53:59

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  10:01:30

Thanks John, the information is all out there (and in some people's personal research) - I just choose to share my findings.  I don't get off on the glory.  As for the Gretsch research, well I've dabbled and must say if Bacon Banjo was a mess, Gretsch is even worse.  Between Stamps, SN, etc...  Dave, no luck on your Radio Special.  I think the best you are going to get is an estimated date of manufacture from Polle and whatever pictures he's gathered to draw comparisons.  I've found nothing in my TByte databank of historical documents.

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/03/2014 10:11:38

beezaboy - Posted - 03/03/2014:  11:28:24

Peter -

*Gretsch purchased everything that was leftover in 1940 (including equipment, patents, trademarks, etc..)*

Attached is documentation for the foregoing from Metronome magazine March 1940 issue.

After their inventory and equipment were damaged as a results of the hurricane, they engaged Gretsch to use up any salvageable parts and made into workable banjos.

This is the "common Knowledge" or generally accepted scenario referred to in an earlier posting for which I surely would love to read an original or period writing or even a published retrospective about this circumstance.  I'm looking for a citation to authority (as some folks say.).

Help!

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  12:28:29

Love it!.   Following the bread crumbs.  Here is the Newspaper article Caesar Cioci was holding up:

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  12:44:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by beezaboy

Peter -

*Gretsch purchased everything that was leftover in 1940 (including equipment, patents, trademarks, etc..)*

Attached is documentation for the foregoing from Metronome magazine March 1940 issue.

After their inventory and equipment were damaged as a results of the hurricane, they engaged Gretsch to use up any salvageable parts and made into workable banjos.

This is the "common Knowledge" or generally accepted scenario referred to in an earlier posting for which I surely would love to read an original or period writing or even a published retrospective about this circumstance.  I'm looking for a citation to authority (as some folks say.).

Help!

---

Agreed the "floor sweep" is elusive.  But, it does make sense given that if they were going to buy everything up, you wouldnt waste anything; even if it was pennies on the dollar.  The Depression was cruel.

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/03/2014:  16:56:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by petercorfield

Love it!.   Following the bread crumbs.  Here is the Newspaper article Caesar Cioci was holding up:

---

Pictures re-attached

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/04/2014:  06:36:35

John, since you already have a PACER account, can you retry to see if anything pops up for "bacon banjo"?  Not sure if you've retried since 2009

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/04/2014 06:36:57

beezaboy - Posted - 03/04/2014:  06:55:58

Don't Forget!  Don't Delay!!

I need an article describing the Bacon banjo making transfer to Gretsch factory episode circa late 1938 into 1939!

Meanwhile, I have a few copies of the old Frets magazine and attached are some things Bacon that appeared therein in case they may be helpful in some way.

(Peter: I don't know what a PACER account is - I guess I don't remember?)

Frets Oct. 1926

Frets Dec. 1926

Frets Dec. 1926

Frets Feb 1927

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/04/2014:  07:07:26

Ha.  No worries:  

beezaboy - Posted - 04/23/2009:  07:26:14

It has been reported here that The Bacon Banjo Company filed for bankruptcy at or near the time that Gretsch became involved in construction Bacon Banjos. Last nite I signed up for PACER (Public Access to Court Electronic Records), got my password this morning and have queried Conn, Vermont, and Eastern Dist N.Y. looking for a record of the Bacon bankruptcy. The court records that far back probably have not been scanned into the system because I found nothing of record. However, if I had more information perhaps the bankruptcy record can be found along with a report of the trustee concerning just how Gretsch acquired the assets, trademarks and other real, personal, and intellectual property of Bacon Banjo Company.

Beezaboy



​Here is the website - pacer.gov/.  Becauce I am not in the US, the system gives me a hard time creating an account.

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/04/2014 07:15:18

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/04/2014:  07:14:44

As far as the Bacon-Gretsch transition, Im still coming up with nothing.  It does beg the question, where the "general knowledge" scenario came from.  Personal stories??  I see it published online everywhere, but nobody provides a source.  A folktale maybe??

I'm afraid that it might be a rumour started here, (i.e. "Probably from existing stock" on the 1938-1940 line) - mugwumps.com/BaconSerialNumbers.html

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/04/2014 07:19:41

beezaboy - Posted - 03/04/2014:  08:50:57

Peter -

Golly, that PACER research was 5 years ago.  Have I been searching fruitlessly for 5 years?  Time flies.

Thanks for the link to Ed Britt's Mugwumps timeline.  I have consulted it many times.  Ed does excellent research.

It was probably Ed who alerted all of us to the Bacon/Gretsch connection as Ed is an authority on David Day and Day probably would have been the person who contacted Fred Gretsch Sr. about the hurricane/flood issue at the Groton facility.  Or maybe Polle Flaunoe called our attention to this scenario as he went about distinguishing the Groton banjos from the Brooklyn ones.  Ed has also been going through that process for years as well.  Anyway, I was hoping for a newspaper article or newspaper/magazine business news piece or something akin that described the details of the arrangement.  The parties might have initially considered the arrangement to be temporary and continue only until the Groton shop was rehabilitated.  I don't know so keep trying to find out.  Note that the sale of Bacon assets to Gretsch reported in the 1940 Metronome appears to represent a private sale.  There is no bankruptcy trustee or court approval mentioned.

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/04/2014:  09:21:32

I should have my PACER account in the next week or so, so will begin searching from there.  Let me know if you can find anything.  Re: the Gretsch contact, my thoughts are that Ed probably had a source that provided this to him and is more word-of-mouth than an evidence piece in hand.  Still valid to a certain degree, but not quantitative fact.  I do believe it though...



PACER Related - As of 2011 the National Archives provided bankruptcy records from 1940 to 1998

Edited by - UnknownUser on 03/04/2014 09:34:20

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/06/2014:  10:11:36

Thanks to our BHO friend Mike Hashem who has graciously agreed for me to post a picture of his Bacon Banjo Co. Inc corporate seal.

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/07/2014:  05:33:27

More Pictures/Poster/etc/.  Thanks to all for sending

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/11/2014:  12:11:05

A combined view from various sources of the Banjo Banjo Club:

 

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/11/2014:  18:19:14

Not quite sure what to think of the David L. Day's resignation a month before Bacon retires. But here is the begining of the end.  Here are the two individual articles from 1932.  Included here as well is the starting point for the business, Day's announcement.  Also here is the alternative ad previously posted by Beezaboy (from the Metronome).. This ad is from Jan 1926.

 

beezaboy - Posted - 03/12/2014:  11:36:25

The Crescendo magazine reported that David Day began his tenure with Bacon Banjo Co., Inc. on Sept. 18, 1922.

In the November 1922 issue of The Crescendo the attached ad appeared.

Thought perhaps you all might enjoy it.

The Crescendo - Nov. 1922 - Congrats Bacon and Day.

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/12/2014:  11:56:21

Very nice.  John, where can I find Crescendo online?  Or are these from Microfiche?

beezaboy - Posted - 03/12/2014:  13:37:15

Peter - The Crescendo and The Music Trades on microfilm at the Univ. of Illinois Urbana.

beezaboy - Posted - 03/12/2014:  14:27:44

Here is a little banjo chat by David Day in March 1924 Crescendo magazine.

David Day "Banjo Rambles" - Crescendo Mar. 1924

beezaboy - Posted - 03/14/2014:  09:37:27

Sir Frederick could play the classical stuff but folks still loved a little banjo minstrelsy!

UnknownUser - Posted - 03/17/2014:  15:39:13

Attached is the corporate seal for Bacon Banjo Company sent from Mike Hashem

UnknownUser - Posted - 04/07/2014:  15:37:07

A link to another section: banjohangout.org/topic/282826/#3564828

beezaboy - Posted - 04/07/2014:  17:30:55

Here is the Silver Bell radio program scan.

Jacob's Orchestra Monthly - Oct. 1928

TylerJackson10er - Posted - 04/08/2014:  18:51:54

Wow!

Lots of great info here.  Also some very entertaining "banter".  Thanks for posting this stuff.  Don't you just love the MTR???  What a wealth of information on there.

Tyler

UnknownUser - Posted - 04/13/2014:  19:18:07

Here are some telegraphs that I was able to uncover from Sherman Clay, Peate & Milner Music Stores.

CS Memphis - Posted - 04/17/2014:  07:54:37

Here's a B&D Silver Bell Sultana price tag, back and front, along with a few photos of the banjo itself and the original case.  Also, the interesting story behind this banjo, which up until a month or so ago had been a one-owner instrument.

First, the eye candy...

Now the story.  This banjo belonged to a man named Romer, who was the father-in-law of my George Banjos partner, Tommy George.  Romer passed away this year at the age of 96, and passed the banjo down to Tommy.  I've heard this story a billion times, but if I get anything wrong, I hope Tommy will chime in and correct me.

Born in 1918, Romer lived on a farm in upstate New York.  He began to play tenor banjo as a teenager, and was good enough to play for the local dance orchestra.  The orchestra was led by a  woman, and she informed Romer that the cheap tenor banjo he played was not really cutting it - or cutting through - with the band.  She encouraged him to get a better instrument, and thus in 1936, at the age of 18 years, Romer sold a cow and used the proceeds to buy this B&D Silver Bell Sultana, sn 35039, brand new for $165.  He kept it and played it all of his life, bringing it down from New York when he moved to Alcoa, Tennessee, where he came to work as an engineer for the Aluminum Company of America.  He retired and lived our the rest of his life in Alcoa.

Here are some pics of the banjo and case.

I did not find this banjo in Polle's database, so I should probably send it over to him or maybe he'll see it here.  I think the original sales receipt may be in the case, and if so I will post a pic of that and give the name and location of the music store, as well as the date of sale.

UnknownUser - Posted - 04/17/2014:  08:09:46

Yes the receipt would be good to have as it sets expectations on the SN Data Model.  Thanks for taking the time to submit.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 04/17/2014:  08:30:32

Christian,

Thanks - indeed a great provenance/family story - luckily I have many like this in my archives.

I´ve saved your great pics/story and will include the banjo in my databases. For now the serial number indicates a mid 1936 build - however productions were really low during the late 30s - so do take this dating with a grain of salt - or an accuracy of let´s say +/- 3 months.

What a well preserved beauty - I´m looking forward for some front pics. Why?  I´ll tell you about this afterwards - LOL!

Only problem for now to be solved - did they have cows in New York back in 1936?  If so - where? Ha-Ha!

Polle

PS!

All factory records etc. were burnt early 40s - my DB´s have been established on basis of collected records afterwards - that´s why this one-owner banjo is now popping up for the first time.

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 04/17/2014 08:42:26

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 04/17/2014:  08:59:32

PPS!

Will it come up for sale?

If so - I might be interested.

CS Memphis - Posted - 04/17/2014:  09:04:28

No problem, Peter, it's my pleasure to contribute to this conversation.  I have an intense love affair with the Silver Bell banjos - they really have it all: the tone, the history, the playability and of course the look.  I am fortunate to have two at home myself - a Montana that I traded a fretless banjo and banjo uke (both of which I made) to Stan Werbin at the Banjo Collector's Gathering in Ferrum, VA several years back, and a No. 1 pot for which I made a new neck last year.  I also have a Senorita with a Silver Bell ring, on semipermanent loan from Tommy George - I used this banjo on both of the Side Street Steppers CDs, so it is a really special banjo for me.  Tommy has a Montana, and now he has Romer's Sultana and a Montana #3 that Romer picked up at a junk store in Alcoa/Maryville a while back.  Tommy also has a number three pot with no neck, which we will one day get around to making a nice neck for.  I'll post a quick pic of each of the banjos I have later, just to show them off.  There was a neat looking "Swing" banjo that sold on Ebay a month or so back, with a gorgeous black & white Deco resonator, and I really almost bought it.  If I hadn't had to buy a bunch of parts that week for banjo builds, I would have jumped on it.  What is known about this model?  The listing said only a handful were made.

Polle, thanks for adding this one to the database, and here are some pics of the front of this banjo.  I'll make sure all the rest of the ones Tommy and I have are already in the DB, and if any others are missing we'll get you the info.

CS Memphis - Posted - 04/17/2014:  09:45:19

I hope I'm not hijacking the historical document thread, but here are some quick pics of my two Silver Bells.

This is the Silver Bell Montana No. 1 that I got from Stan Werbin.  Stan had it listed "as is", and it had a poorly repaired heel crack, needed a neck reset, a bit of binding replaced and a set up.  I traded him a nice Wenge fingerboard fretless banjo that I had made, plus one of my new banjo uke - which Elderly stocks now, by the way.  I'm sending two new ones to them next week, in fact.

At any rate, this banjo is SN 26201, no hole tone ring, according to Polle's DB made in 1928.

Here it is on the bench as we were restoring it.  Notice that the dowel stick reads "Montana Special".

Post restoration photos:

*Note: I removed the Soft Pedal Mute as I could not get both it and the strap in the original case to haul it around to gigs.  I'm about to get a Reunion Blues bag for this banjo, and I will replace the mute once I have the new gig bag.

Finally, here a shot of the banjo in action with my 1920s/'30s band, the Side Street Steppers...

That's my wife next to me, playing her custom 5-string "Golden Girl II" banjo that Tommy and I made for her a couple years back.

Edited by - CS Memphis on 04/17/2014 09:45:59