Tom Dula - Posted - 02/03/2013:  20:50:30

I have had an open back Recording King for about a year.  It's always sounded good, even after I tinkered with it, changing the head, tailpiece, taking it apart, etc.  Recently I left it with the capo still on for about a day or two.  I came back and played it and it sounded absolutely horrible, I mean really bad.  I thought maybe the capo changed the pitch, so I tuned it and it still sounded bad.  I changed the strings out, same luck.  I adjusted the hooks by tightening them.  I loosened them.  I moved the tailpiece all over the place.  Still sounding terrible.  Finally I took it apart.  The head is a fiberskyn and it looked fine.  I put the banjo back together, and put on a third set of strings.  Lo and behold, it still sounds really bad.  I have no idea what it could be.  It sounds very much like a tin can - the tone is completely gone and it sounds badly out of tune.  Any ideas as to the problem?

David Cunningham - Posted - 02/03/2013:  21:06:51

Is the head tight enough?  Did the weather change drastically?

doryman - Posted - 02/03/2013:  21:32:00

I know this is probably too simple, but it seems that you tried EVERYTHING, but you didn't mention the bridge.  Did the bridge get knocked out of alignment?  Is it in the right place?  Is it crooked?  Is it cracked?  

beegee - Posted - 02/04/2013:  03:14:48

The capo didn't cause it. You either have a broken head or the neck is loose.

mike gregory - Posted - 02/04/2013:  03:45:40

Like Doryman said, check the bridge for getting pushed off the proper spot.

On my banjos, once I get it where it's supposed to be, I trace lightly around the feet with a sharp #2 pencil.

Then, when it gets bumped again, I don't have to mess around with measuring and chiming and testing and tuning and lions and tigers and bears, O my!

I just put it back on the marks.

And if the bridge is good, may as well see if Beegee's right about the neck.

Lay it on the table, strum the strings, and while the chord is ringing, pick it up by the body, and move it quickly up and down.

A little pitch change is to be expected, but a lot means a loose neck.

I'm not sure how to test for a broken head. Maybe push hard along the edge of the head, while a chord rings.

grm405 - Posted - 02/04/2013:  05:17:21

What is "terrible"?  A more complete description of the sound my help diagnose the problem.  For example, "buzzy", "dead and thuddy" and "sour" would indicate buzzing strings, a broken or too loose head and an out-of-place bridge respectively.

Gerry

xnavyguy - Posted - 02/04/2013:  05:49:27

Are you suffering from allergies or head congestion?  When my head is stopped up, all banjos sound like crap to me.

Bart Veerman - Posted - 02/04/2013:  06:00:55

You say:

• 
  you've tinkered it up before and always sounded ok


• 
  it sounded good when you put it away


• 
  picked it up two days and it sounded horrible


• 
  you checked all hardware and the head is ok

If the tone is gone and it's badly out of tune then first I'd have somebody else listen to it and see if they agree. If they do then I see only two  possibilities:

• 
  the bridge is in the wrong location


• 
  your hearing is off - ear infection, clogged sinus, earwax or whatever

Keep us posted.

gospelman97 - Posted - 02/04/2013:  06:17:02

I wonder if the neck might have straightened out some and might need a truss rod adjustment?  Typically, if there is not enough relief it can sound like a tin can. Fret the first and last fret of one of the strings and make sure that there is a bit of daylight when you bounce the string against the frets around the middle of the fretboard.  Also check it at each of the first 4 strings to make sure the neck is not twisted a bit.  Keep us updated!

gottasmilealot - Posted - 02/04/2013:  06:59:35

Did you put a lighter set of strings on it when restringing it the first time?  I have an open back that just does not sound good unless I use at least medium gauge strings in it.

Tom Dula - Posted - 02/04/2013:  08:31:24

Well I got up this morning to check it out.  This time in it's case.  Still the same.  Funny comment about my hearing though!  I thought about that one, actually!  But my guitars sitting in the same spot sound perfectly fine.

I've tried moving the bridge around.  As far as strings go, it's always had mediums.  I've played this banjo with the neck loose, with the neck tight, practically all sorts of ways and at the very worst it sounded good.  But this is different.

It sounds overly thuddy and hollow sounding, almost like it's out of tune.  With a weird echoey overtone.  And I didn't do a thing with it other than leaving the capo on for a couple days.  I found no cracks or anything.  The only thing I can think of is moisture or a broken truss rod.  But I've never even messed with the truss rod.  As I said leaving the capo on it for couple days must have affected something.

steve davis - Posted - 02/04/2013:  11:29:55

Capos have no affect on the workings of the instrument.

atracksler - Posted - 02/04/2013:  12:10:03

Sounds like a broken head to me. I would tear it down and re-put it back together. The head could have broken in the perforations under the tension hoop.

FRAILER57 - Posted - 02/04/2013:  12:43:18

Altracksler beat me to it. Ihad one start working loose inside the clinch ring. I would tighten it up, and several hours later, it would lose it's tension and sound like crap. finally,pulled the head off and found the problem.With tension off it would fall back into place and you couldn't see it.Anew head cured it.

Steven M - Posted - 02/04/2013:  13:03:39

Ripped head, it could be a very small tear but that would be enough to do it!

grm405 - Posted - 02/04/2013:  13:22:52

Yep, sounds like a torn head (behind the tension hoop, where you can't see it until you remove it).

Gerry

doryman - Posted - 02/04/2013:  15:02:21

You didn't make the horrible mistake of playing a really, really, really good banjo in the last couple of days did you? And now you're ruined forever until you upgrade?

tvguy11 - Posted - 02/05/2013:  13:06:36

That's true! Played a friends Sullivan about two months ago and still trying to get over it!

Downeast - Posted - 02/05/2013:  15:04:38

This is going to sound weird, but I started using a new thumb pick once and it took me a long time to realize it was the pick and not the banjo that made it sound "off". Have you changed thumb picks lately?

BanjoJeff - Posted - 02/06/2013:  06:14:18

I agree the head must be torn... probably where you can't see it until you remove the tension hoop. For the tone and tuning to just go out all at once, that has to be the reason.

Tom Dula - Posted - 02/06/2013:  09:38:01

No recent luck.  I changed the head out to a different one.  The old head was fairly new and looks fine, even so the new one has had no difference in sound.  I can find no cracks anywhere on the banjo.  I never play with picks either.

The only thing I can think of now is maybe an internal thing, maybe with the truss rod?

Tom Dula - Posted - 02/10/2013:  16:34:35

Well boys the jury's out, but I think the culprit might have been a busted fingernail.  It's been clipped off and it's re-growing daily.  Yup, the ole banjo is sounding a bit better already.

mike gregory - Posted - 02/11/2013:  06:07:17

"The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our banjos, but in ourselves!"

-Billy Bob Shakespeare-

Banjo Bard

grizzly1 - Posted - 02/11/2013:  13:29:44

I have noticed that my ear gets radically different experiences from a given banjo from day to day. Maybe the banjo's acoustical properties are changing, but I am now also open to the idea that the banjo may not have changed at all, and that it's something happening inside my head. I have 10 banjos around the house. A favorite can go from sounding great to sounding "different" in a day. I build and have the luxury of having a few around. In the last year I have wondered more and more about my subjective experience of hearing and how the act of listening effects what's being heard. Yes, when the head tension is changed there's a change, yes setup effects the tone. I am speaking to the more mysterious changes that to my ear occur in a stable instrument in a stable environment. Part of the fun of the banjo for me is they are mysterious beasts.