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Koala_in_pjs - Posted - 01/25/2013: 20:46:35
For those of you out there thinking 'Gee I wish there was a way to make my banjo lighter." the solution is here.
A CARBON FIBRE TONE RING
I have just had one put in my banjo and it is so much lighter than what it was. I bet you can't lose 1.5kgs (3.3 pounds for those who don't do kilos) in one afternoon with Jenny Craig! I never realise how much weight my old tone ring had. The carbon fibre tone ring is only about 120g (4.2 ounces) which is heaps lighter.
I can't hear any difference in the volume of my banjo, it is still LOUD, and there doesn't seem to be any change to its voice (sound / tone or whatever you call it) either. It has still got its big, bright, in your face bluegrass sound. I am looking forward to being able to do more picking standing up as I never could stand for long because of the weight of my banjo as it used to feel uncomfortably heavy and my back wasn't happy with it.
The only problem that I have found is that I still sound like myself as it has not magically improved my picking abilities, so I guess I'd better keep practicing. 
kirbonite - Posted - 01/25/2013: 20:54:00
I was wondering when this would happen.. Rob Bishline is doing some cool stuff with Carbon fiber/
Do you have any images of this "tone ring ?) inquiring minds await..
R Buck - Posted - 01/25/2013: 21:04:55
Those old bakelite banjos weren't bad. Why not carbon fiber? Composite banjos allow you to take it to the paddlers.
brunomathilda - Posted - 01/25/2013: 21:29:54
carbon fiber tone ring.
Wooaaw.
Where can I get more info on that ?
Koala_in_pjs - Posted - 01/26/2013: 16:49:43
Here's a couple of photos. As you can see the one that was put on my banjo has silver/black colouring but I saw some that had been made with a gold/black colouring for banjos with gold fittings on them.
MOUNTAIN GOAT - Posted - 01/26/2013: 17:21:10
Brings up lots of questions. Is it pre preg or wet layup? How about a rim and tone rings, single piece carbon fiber? Carbon fiber does like pushing on the ends of the fibers, so long term this might not be so great. The ends of the fibers might eat into the wood rim.
gary vann - Posted - 01/26/2013: 18:48:20
the Lewis carbon fibre tone rings are vacuum molded with a special resin so there is no carbon fibre touching the timber pot ,
the inside of the tone rings can be sanded down to fit your original pot so you can go back to your original tone ring if needed ,
the c/f rings are the same shape as a flat head tone ring .
redwing - Posted - 01/27/2013: 01:18:50
These carbon fibre tone rings look interesting. Is there a website or contact info for the maker of these rings? Are these available in the USA?
A-b Normal - Posted - 01/27/2013: 02:25:23
That's awesome! Very interesting, thanks! It could be helpful a video comparison of you picking with the standard and the with CF tonering...
BanjoJAF - Posted - 01/27/2013: 05:41:20
Hello:
I did a little (very little) search. "Martin Lewis String Instruments" doesn't seem to have a web page, but they do have a Facebook page. Unfortunately, I do not have a Facebook acct, so I could not look at it
facebook.com/MLSInstuments
I found one video on youtube that included a banjo (there are other videos of guitars and fiddles):
youtube.com/watch?feature=play...nuXSpwa94
Maybe one of the good folks from Aus could invite Mr. Lewis to join the Hangout and talk about his banjo project.
Cheers! Jay
gary vann - Posted - 01/27/2013: 07:53:06
hi jay
martin Lewis string instruments make the tone rings for me , my web page is being updated with more pictures and sound samples of standard tone rings and c/f rings, it should be up in the next couple of weeks
the banjo on YouTube is a Gibson prewar flathead with the original tone ring , the fiddles and guitars are the carbon fibre production models .
BanjoJAF - Posted - 01/27/2013: 09:09:47
Thanks for clearing that up Gary. I assumed the banjo had a CF ring just because it was in that video.
Cheers! Jay
Koala_in_pjs - Posted - 01/28/2013: 05:00:39
OK I'm feeling either very brave or delirious as I have posted two sound clips of me playing Bill Cheatham my banjo. (I can't post videos so this is the alternative)
Both were recorded in my room at home using my ipod and are not professionally recorded or played by a professional (hmmm what's below amateur?) but hey you work with what you've got and besides I never thought I'd be sharing these with the world. 
The first clip I recorded about 1 1/2 years ago on my banjo when it had a Tennessee 20 tone ring installed and the second clip I recorded today with the Lewis carbon fibre tone ring in for comparison.
Yes I know my timing is dodgy here and there in both, and there are some bum notes that are cringe worthy and hurt your ears, but I thought that it may be of interest for people to compare the same banjo, same bad player but the different tone rings.
HEALTH WARNING: Not recommended for those with sensitive hearing, bad hearts or nervous dispositions 
NOTE: No animals were harmed in the process of making these recordings
(edited to add note on how they were recorded)
Edited by - Koala_in_pjs on 01/28/2013 05:09:22
country frank - Posted - 01/28/2013: 05:48:08
Wow!!!
Judging from the sound clips you have posted above that CF ring is really something. i stunned at the musicality of the material.......more info, where did you get that ring from?
Thanks for posting.
BJD - Posted - 01/28/2013: 06:10:15
I'd sure like to know more about them. Price, installation techniques, etc. This might be just the thing for sore shoulders and backs.
Aradobanjo - Posted - 01/28/2013: 07:29:50
Hello,
This seems to reiterate a thread earlier that a tone ring contributes less to the sound than thought. The comparison was between a PW TB conversion and an RB. The sound was too similar. The test is the same. Although, the play was not past the 12th fret. Attempting replicate the past is tricky.
Aradobanjo - Posted - 01/28/2013: 08:15:00
quote:
Originally posted by Aradobanjo
Hello,
This seems to reiterate a thread earlier that a tone ring contributes less to the sound than thought. The comparison was between a PW TB conversion and an RB. The sound was too similar. The test is the same. Although, the play was not past the 12th fret. Attempting replicate the past is tricky.
At best, a tone ring increases the air chamber and provides sloping ridges to a peak. This gives the head more area to move air. Not much else does a ring supply other than more bling and cost.
coastaleddy - Posted - 01/28/2013: 12:57:42
Well ,I have been working on this GRAPHITE tone ring idea for a while and here are a few examples so far .
here is my 12" walnut rim with my "Graphtone" tone ring .The ring is cast graphite with glass fiber reinforcement and paduke heel . I am giving this one to Jere Canote noted player and banjo maker to try out and see how it sounds. At my present speed it might take me 6 months to make a neck for this .
this is an 11"walnut rim with internal resonator and "Graphtone" tone ring. I also have 2 14" rims in the works .
I have noticed that the rims have a pleasant tonal quality when tapped I have a good feeling these will sound perty good . any comments ??
atracksler - Posted - 01/28/2013: 13:02:51
I honestly think that tome ring shape, or rim shape contributes far more to the tone of a banjo than actual tone ring material. Ithink that the subtlties of the way that the shape of the tone ring affect the vibrating area of the banjo head contribute far far more to the tone of a banjo than material.
Weaher or not the tone ring is brass, or bronze, or wood or CF, I think it is the subtle shapes that define the tone.
An archtop ring and a flathead sound different than a tubaphone, I think, mostly due to shape. This is why those flathead woodies sound so great...
That and setup....
gary vann - Posted - 01/28/2013: 19:47:11
hi all , i have uploaded some sound samples of my carbon fibre tone rings , they include a 1930 gibson archtop with original tone ring , a 2000 bellbird banjo with a c/f tone ring , and a 1980 stelling whitestar , top tension with a prototype c/f tone ring , all these banjos are maple timber , all have remo heads , presto tailpieces , the stelling has the original tailpiece , all have snuffy smith bridges , all head tensions are the same at 90 lb , all have daddario J61 med strings , any comments good or bad will be appreciated thanks , gary
gary vann - Posted - 01/29/2013: 05:15:54
hi all , here are some more photos of my carbon fibre tone rings , these rings can be ordered from me , the price for the flat head tone rings are $ 500.00 aud each plus postage .
the stelling rings are not available yet , the stelling rings require a lot more work to manufacture so they will be a little more expensive than the flat head rings , but if you are interested in getting one let me know and i will get some moulded asap ,
the c-f rings are made to be a tight fit to the pot , i have found this gives the best sound , if the rings are to tight the inside of the ring can be sanded to suit your pot , i have left a small ledge on the inside of the ring so it can be tapped off if needed , the advantage of this is you don't need to modify your pot and can return your banjo back to the original setup if required , the only other thing you will need to do is drill a hole for the top lag bolt , any wood or metal drill bit will do the job , for those that have a banjo with a neck angle that is to high i can supply carbon fibre shims in two thickness, these can be super glued directly to the ring , the shims are moulded to the same diameter as the rings , $ 20.00 per pair
Aradobanjo - Posted - 01/29/2013: 06:50:46
Hello Gary,
I was pleasantly surprised at the tonal qualities differences between the metal and the CF. The metal has a certain variableness, like a wooden roller-coaster roughness, as opposed to the consistency of the CF. What radius is the rim bevel set to?
Thank for sharing the comparative samples.
MrManners - Posted - 01/29/2013: 15:47:20
it hits me a carbon fiber rim would be a great test,fibers are already involved in rims
gary vann - Posted - 01/29/2013: 16:21:55
quote:
Originally posted by Aradobanjo
Hello Gary,
I was pleasantly surprised at the tonal qualities differences between the metal and the CF. The metal has a certain variableness, like a wooden roller-coaster roughness, as opposed to the consistency of the CF. What radius is the rim bevel set to?
Thank for sharing the comparative samples.
the radius of the rim bevel is about 3 inches
Leigh - Posted - 01/29/2013: 16:52:45
Sounds very good. I might add, nice picking. Thanks for sharing.
gary vann - Posted - 01/29/2013: 17:06:59
hi aradobanjo ,
you are right on with your assessment of the differences in the sound of the c-f tone rings ,
the idea came from listening to one of martins c-f guitars , the outstanding feature was the consistency of the notes over the whole fret board , the c-f rings sound like a good acoustic that has a little bit of compression applied to it , we are not trying to copy the sound of a particular tone ring , the idea was to make the banjo lighter but still have a great tone with no loss in volume or projection i think we have achieved this , the samples i recorded are a little subdued ,the c-f rings respond very well to player input ,
the rings can be ordered directly from me , payment can be made by a direct bank deposit , or via PayPal ,
thanks Gary
gary vann - Posted - 01/30/2013: 06:03:57
i have added another sound sample of the bellbird banjo with a c-f tone ring , the tune is Brilliancy played by george jackson , i also have some more photos, one of my pots with a cf ring and the other is a metalic gold painted c-f ring , it looks a bit much in the photo but when it is installed it looks like a gold plated ring , the cost of painting a ring is $ 50.00 ,
Edited by - gary vann on 01/30/2013 06:07:42
Koala_in_pjs - Posted - 02/15/2013: 01:03:45
That gold painted ring looks pretty neat. Do you do metallic silver painted ones also?
gary vann - Posted - 02/15/2013: 06:10:49
yes , the tone rings can be painted in any colour ,
Wes Lassiter - Posted - 03/16/2013: 09:14:05
I am really amazed at the tone you are getting. This confuses me for it makes me wonder where this puts other high end metal tone rings
Bizdoc - Posted - 03/16/2013: 16:03:59
As stated by others, it makes me think about the total contribution of the metal tone ring. I'd be I terested in the difference between the bronze bell, c/f, and the Ome Tone Rim (rim with top turned like a tone ring) to see if the shape, as mentioned by others, is the key more so than material.
Slapstick_inc - Posted - 03/18/2013: 14:32:03
What happened to the drawing that was on here only a couple of days ago for a CF tone ring?
NotVeryGood - Posted - 03/18/2013: 14:37:56
quote:
Originally posted by Slapstick_inc
What happened to the drawing that was on here only a couple of days ago for a CF tone ring?
A winner was picked:
banjohangout.org/myhangout/blo...gid=29420
New drawing is already up.
31granada - Posted - 03/18/2013: 17:58:26
I have been building and playing “Acoustic Fiber Glass” rimed and resonatored banjos since the early 1970’s. I was an Engineer at a large chemical company and had worked extensively with hand lay up FRP fabrications in the manufacture of chemical processing equipment. It only made sense to experiment and give a whirl at making very stable banjo rims from a process that I initiated. I later carried this into making resonators. In recent years I moved to ‘Carbon Fiber Reinforced Acoustic Fiberglass” This has reduced weight and I believe has made an improvement in the overall sound. In addition to playing these, I own and play, on occasion, several Gibson pre war originals and conversions. They all sound great to me.
A u-tube video was made when my group was playing at a recent festival. The banjo I was playing was an “Acoustic Fiber Glass” rim and resonator. This banjo has a Stewart McDonald era Steve Ryan ring. I bought 3 back then, used two in custom banjos, Bill Sullivan talked me out of the other one.
youtube.com/watch?v=1QZa1O0V1SA
A gold plated version and a little history can be seen and heard at our website
themountainstatebluegrassexpre...rites.php
gary vann - Posted - 03/19/2013: 03:49:48
This banjo has a Stewart McDonald era Steve Ryan ring. I bought 3 back then, used two in custom banjos, Bill Sullivan talked me out of the other one.
i have a Steve ryan tone ring that i am not using if you are looking for one , it came out of an old Gibson i bought years ago .
gary vann
