hektic - Posted - 08/03/2012:  00:01:11

Hey guys, 

Today is a sad day for me. I opended my banjo case to find my goodtime special neck snapped at the finger joint. :(

The break is pretty clean, almost all the factory joint split in tact, except for a very small splinter. The two pieces fit back pretty much perfectly.

Do you guys recommend having a luthier repair it, or should I just get a new neck.

I guess this will force me to finally bring my Rickard Dobson out in public, as I was still using my Goodtime as my gigging banjo since getting my dobson... 

I still need to fix this goodtime though.

Thanks!

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 08/03/2012:  00:18:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by hektic

Hey guys, 

Today is a sad day for me. I opended my banjo case to find my goodtime special neck snapped at the finger joint. :(

The break is pretty clean, almost all the factory joint split in tact, except for a very small splinter. The two pieces fit back pretty much perfectly.

Do you guys recommend having a luthier repair it, or should I just get a new neck.

I guess this will force me to finally bring my Rickard Dobson out in public, as I was still using my Goodtime as my gigging banjo since getting my dobson... 

I still need to fix this goodtime though.

Thanks!

---

 First of all, call or email Deering and let them know about it. 

They may be willing to do something about it even if the banjo is past the nominal warrantee period since they really don't want potential Goodtime buyers getting the idea that those finger joints let go on a regular basis.

~Pete

scooter46 - Posted - 08/03/2012:  08:11:48

I agree I'd contact Deering if the joint separated that cleanly there was something wrong with it. I would take some good close up pictures of it both apart and together, call Deering and talk to someone with some authority, tell them the problem and that you would like to send some pictures. Hopefully they will want to send you a new neck and want the broken one returned. Good Luck Larry

I just did this with a bathroom faucet that all the finish changed color on the spicket only, I had the faucet about seven years. Had to sent them pictures they sent a new faucet. 

Edited by - scooter46 on 08/03/2012 08:17:39

mworden - Posted - 08/03/2012:  09:36:19

I have a Goodtime that had the finger joint separate (basically came unglued) also.  Never dropped, never left in a hot car, etc.; it just came loose.  I was able to bring the instrument in to the factory and they generously replaced the neck for me even though it was no longer in warranty.  Maybe they had a bad batch of glue or something at one point.  A properly glued finger joint would normally be stronger than the wood itself.  

hektic - Posted - 08/03/2012:  10:29:58

I did buy this banjo used off the BHO so I am not the original owner and therefore the warranty technically does not apply to me.

Im about to call them, but here is what It sais on their site regarding the warranty.

Goodtime Warranty Information

All new Goodtime banjos carry a six year limited warranty when you send in the warranty card.

The warranty covers defective materials or workmanship. The warranty does not cover normal wear and tear, the frets, finish, or accidental damage and is not transferable to subsequent owners. Incidental and consequential damages are excluded from this warranty and we assume no liability other than for the actual repair of the instrument. Return this card to validate your warranty and receive your Banjo Maintenance Manual.

erikforgod - Posted - 08/03/2012:  10:34:39

Surprised to read about this....they say usually a finger joint is just about fail proof..., Taylor guitars uses them on their necks. If a banjo neck snaps it will usually do so between the nut and 5th string peg...this is the weakest part of the neck. I bet Deering will replace it for yah.....I would contact Janet about it.

Dont know how old your Goodtime is but failure of the finger joint is on them (Deering) ....not included on normal wear and tear. If you check on the Deering thread and bring it up to Janet, I bet they will offer to give you a new one...they are really great folks with great customer service.

Edited by - erikforgod on 08/03/2012 10:36:34

OldPappy - Posted - 08/03/2012:  11:10:40

What Erick said about the weakest part of the neck may be true on banjos with a truss rod because the channel for the truss rod makes for some real thin wood, espeically under the nut or at the tansition to the peghead.

Most broken neck banjos I have fixed were broken at the nut, usually when someone left one leaning against a wall and it fell over.

I am not sure, but I don't believe the Goodtimes I have seen had trussrods, so the same weakness would not apply.

Making the weakest point at the finger joint, which is supported by two people on this thread having experienced a breakage there.

Sounds like others have had good customer service response on this, so they will probably treat you right.

If not, the break can be repaired, and probably fairly easily.

OldPappy - Posted - 08/03/2012:  11:22:54

If you have a Rickard banjo, I would recommend playing it, and selling that Goodtime.

You could use the proceeds to buy better gigging equiptment, maybe even get a miner's lantern.

Down here in the South we use a light weight three pronged spear for "gigging", but I suppose a Deering Goodtime would work if you got close enough to the frogs.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

hektic - Posted - 08/04/2012:  10:11:53

I called Deering  and talked to a rep on the phone, he asked me if it just came unglued or if it was caused by a trauma. Im honest in this situation and Im pretty sure it did not just come unglued, it came apart very cleanly but it does look like it suffered some kind of stress and did not just come unglued.

He told me to take some pictures and send them in anyways for them to examine. I'll post them up here once I get them all set.

hektic - Posted - 08/04/2012:  12:00:04

Here are the pics:

gmo - Posted - 08/04/2012:  12:12:38

I can see a fracture on the bottom tongues , looks like the glue failed and some kind of stress caused the wood to crack on the bottom tongues when it pulled apart.
George

rudy - Posted - 08/04/2012:  12:21:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by hektic



I called Deering  and talked to a rep on the phone, he asked me if it just came unglued or if it was caused by a trauma. Im honest in this situation and Im pretty sure it did not just come unglued, it came apart very cleanly but it does look like it suffered some kind of stress and did not just come unglued.

He told me to take some pictures and send them in anyways for them to examine. I'll post them up here once I get them all set.

---

 Good for you for being honest.  You can probably pull those heavy replacement guitar tuners off and seel the pot and tuners on e-bay.  I certainly wouldn't fault Deering for not replacing a neck that has been altered.

Take that Rickard Dobson out and USE IT!  Life's too short not to play the instrument that you like best.  It'll improve your playing and lead to much greater satisfaction more than the worry-free experience of going to a jam with a beater.  I'd dump that fibreskin head and go with a Renaissance, though.  Get a no-logo from Smakula.com or de-logo for yourself if you order from Stu-Mac or Elderly.  Head logos just ain't right on the beautiful Dobson copy!

Look at it not as a sad event, but a joyous occasion because your Good Time has chosen to make the ultimate sacrifice because it loves to see you happy.

Edited by - rudy on 08/04/2012 12:29:18

DeanT - Posted - 08/04/2012:  12:54:37

Why not glue it back together and play on?

hektic - Posted - 08/04/2012:  13:29:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeanT

Why not glue it back together and play on?

---

Well yeah, essentially that's what I was thinking, like we see its a pretty clean break and probably easily repairable. I probably will get it done by a luthier . Im still pretty attached to it, its my first banjo. Great sounding as well.

As for my Dobson, I will bring it out more. I brought it to a jam last night and while it complimented alot of songs we do, it was lacking a bit for the bluegrassy tunes, it didnt have the snap that my goodtime special has. In future i'd like to bring both banjos to  my jams/gigs.

With my dobson I still havent decided if I want to go mellower (skin and nylguts) or peppier (ren with steel) but thats another thread all in its own

timmo_1949 - Posted - 08/04/2012:  16:34:25

If you want, send it to me and I'll fix it for free  I've worked on a number of Goodtimes and have never seen that joint fail  It is an easy fix but you'll have consider the mailing costs.

Tim Smith

724 LAKE DR

MOUNT WOLF, PA 17347

savethebanjos.com

mworden - Posted - 08/04/2012:  18:37:50

Regarding Tim's generous offer (and obviously he can weigh in), I imagine you could send just the neck, which would make mailing much easier.

Banjophobic - Posted - 08/04/2012:  18:57:45

Dont do anything until you talk to the Deerings first, to be sure you dont void the warranty. Im not a fan of finger joints even though  the are supposed to be stronger than a solid wood neck. Looks to me like a bad glue job.

Matthew Wyatt - Posted - 08/04/2012:  21:07:45

So sorry.

hektic - Posted - 08/05/2012:  11:15:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by timmo_1949

If you want, send it to me and I'll fix it for free  I've worked on a number of Goodtimes and have never seen that joint fail  It is an easy fix but you'll have consider the mailing costs.

 

Tim Smith

724 LAKE DR

MOUNT WOLF, PA 17347

savethebanjos.com

---

Thanks Tim,

Thats a very generous offer, I just might take you up on that. I'm going to wait till I hear from Deering, and i'll let you know

ClayTech - Posted - 08/05/2012:  12:40:32

If it came apart due to trauma, shouldn't some of the fingers have remained glued together and snapped or cracked? Every part of that joint came apart clean, like the glue just released.

hektic - Posted - 08/05/2012:  15:45:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by ClayTech

If it came apart due to trauma, shouldn't some of the fingers have remained glued together and snapped or cracked? Every part of that joint came apart clean, like the glue just released.

---

One of the fingers (the thinnest one) on the back of the neck stayed glued, and there is a slight hairline crack on the back as well. The damage actually looks alot worse in the pictures than real life. But yeah I do agree it came off too clean to be JUST a stress fracture.

timmo_1949 - Posted - 08/05/2012:  16:41:00

If Deering won't fix it, you can just send me the neck and save some money.

Tim Smith

724 LAKE DR

Mount Wolf, PA 17347

Jonnycake White - Posted - 08/06/2012:  11:28:15

I wonder what glue Deering uses?  New aliphatic resin (yellow glue titebond etc.) doesn't like to stick to dried previous coats of itself so re-gluing would involve cleaning it well..

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 08/06/2012:  12:15:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonnycake White

I wonder what glue Deering uses? 

---

 Last time I asked, Deering wasn't telling.    Said it was a trade secret.

~Pete

BANJO TONY - Posted - 08/06/2012:  17:37:50

well the secrets out it don't work a lick. maybe we should take a poll how many times this has happen since they Deering started making the goodtime banjo.

eagleisland - Posted - 08/06/2012:  19:12:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by BANJO TONY

well the secrets out it don't work a lick. maybe we should take a poll how many times this has happen since they Deering started making the goodtime banjo.

---

Are you serious?

You'd go back a LONG time and a ton of banjos, and come up with maybe a handful of failures. And until the tiny number of truly well-designed/well-built Asian imports came along - notably Gold Tone and Recording King entry models - you'd be hard pressed to find a better starter banjo at such a reasonable price point.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 08/06/2012:  20:09:50

Looks like a friday job and the glue gun run a little short...

BANJO TONY - Posted - 08/07/2012:  01:21:16

sounds like the olden days at the GM ,never buy a car that was made on a Monday or Friday. for what there asking for a Goodtime banjo now a days they (Deering), have to do a lot better than that.an I can say so because I own 4 of them.they should come with a life time warrnaty.

steve j. - Posted - 08/08/2012:  07:17:41

I have a opportunity to get a goodtime classic or a gt cc ot for about the same price, soon. would yall say the gold tone, is built to take more stress? Im not easy on stuff, cause I take it with me when I go out wherever. I dont need anything delicate.

maybe Im ovethinking,,,

MTBanjo - Posted - 08/08/2012:  09:06:11

Yes, you're overthinking it.

I won't say don't buy the GoldTone, but am I saying that for every horror story or unhappy story you see posted here on the Hangout, there are hundreds if not thousands of perfectly happy customers who never post about it.

I bought my Goodtime used. I was shipped to me. I play it camping. Then I sold it, in town. No idea what happened to it while it was gone. I bought it back 2 or 3 years later. I took it on a week long trip into the desert with me. I was driving all over crazy dirt, rock and sand roads. Practically jumping my truck sometimes. A speaker's screws worked their way out of my door. I guess I didn't tighten my transmission well enough to my engine the last time I had it out, because it started separating. ROUGH roads, driving a bit too fast. The Goodtime was just in a cheap case in the bed of my truck, not necessarily secured. Just bouncing around. It's a banjo I'll just hand to people around the campfire and not worry about.

It's always been fine. I think you'd be ok! But Goldtone is fine, too.

Edited by - MTBanjo on 08/08/2012 09:13:24

Montanarick - Posted - 08/08/2012:  09:09:29

quote: So true.....

---

Originally posted by MTBanjo

Yes, you're overthinking it.

 

I won't say don't buy the GoldTone, but am I saying that for every horror story or unhappy story you see posted here on the Hangout, there are hundreds of not thousands of perfectly happy customers who never post about it.

---

steve j. - Posted - 08/08/2012:  09:18:07

thnaks I appreciate your replys. I overthink a bunch, just hate to have buyers remorse

Montanarick - Posted - 08/08/2012:  09:22:25

quote: steve j. I own a Goodtime and I owned a Goldtone.....both super banjos....I still play the Goodtime as much as my Tradesman. It goes camping, boating, hunting and basically everywhere I go.....no problems. My son has a very expensive Taylor guitar and guess what....the peg head is attached to neck with a finger joint. I don't think you will go wrong with the Goodtime or Goldtone. Rick

---

Originally posted by steve j.

I have a opportunity to get a goodtime classic or a gt cc ot for about the same price, soon. would yall say the gold tone, is built to take more stress? Im not easy on stuff, cause I take it with me when I go out wherever. I dont need anything delicate.



maybe Im ovethinking,,,

---

oldtimefolkie - Posted - 08/08/2012:  20:02:21

Second the Goodtime choice. I've had one for years. No problem with that joint. Plus, it's fully USA built!

Warren

Edited by - oldtimefolkie on 08/08/2012 20:02:35

Harreec - Posted - 08/09/2012:  02:37:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by hektic

I called Deering  and talked to a rep on the phone, he asked me if it just came unglued or if it was caused by a trauma. Im honest in this situation and Im pretty sure it did not just come unglued, it came apart very cleanly but it does look like it suffered some kind of stress and did not just come unglued.

He told me to take some pictures and send them in anyways for them to examine. I'll post them up here once I get them all set.

---

JMalmsteen - Posted - 08/09/2012:  06:00:10

Why does Deering even use this construction? I have a Goodtime banjo and love it, but the joint seems cheap and is surprising on a $400 banjo. I would rather pay the extra however much it is to get a neck without this joint. I would also happily pay extra to get rid of the guitar tuners, but that's another thing altogether :)

MTBanjo - Posted - 08/09/2012:  07:01:43

The idea of the Goodtime, so far as I understand it, is to use quality parts where it counts, and cut corners on everything else so that it stays inexpensive. Upgrade the tuners, make the neck take more craftsmanship etc, etc and before you know it, you've got an expensive banjo.

$400 is CHEAP. I mean ridiculously cheap.

mworden - Posted - 08/09/2012:  07:26:01

They use that construction so that they can use smaller (= less expensive, I guess) blanks for the necks on the Goodtimes.

hektic - Posted - 08/09/2012:  07:31:00

Wow, this topic is getting alot of attention. I didnt expect it to be THIS big.

I sent the pictures to Deering and I got an email Monday saying that they have been passed on to quality control for inspection, I'm still waiting for their response.

And just for the record, in my opinion the goodtime is an excellent banjo, I love mine, and this shouldn't deter people from buying one.

I've had this banjo for 3 years and brought it backpacking through Europe for 3 months and didn't have any problems. This was just a stroke of bad luck I guess,maybe the glue has weakend over time, and something put pressure in just the right spot for this to happen.

On the other hand, Im planning a trip to Nashville in two weeks and would really like to take this banjo traveling with me, theres no way Im taking my Rickard Dobson, even with Tim's offer and Deering's response pending. Im debating sucking it up and taking it to a local luthier to repair.

MTBanjo - Posted - 08/09/2012:  08:04:12

There was a time when Janet (Deering) was posting on here regularly. Some "feel good" thread about what you love about your Deering and maybe suggestions for them. I don't know if she's still around and would respond. I know it's no fun to sit around waiting, especially when you have something coming up where you want to play the banjo! I know all to well, right now.

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 08/09/2012:  10:40:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by JMalmsteen



Why does Deering even use this construction?

---

 Because it saves them  (and you)  money.    It would take almost three times as much wood to cut a one-piece neck, and most of it would end up as sawdust and scrap anyway, so Deering (and Taylor Guitar) chose to save both the money and the wood by using a finger joint instead of cutting a one-piece neck.

As has been pointed out before; the finger joint disturbs some people because they aren't used to seeing something like that, but the joint fails very rarely and you actually see a lot more banjos with one-piece necks  -high quality banjos, too-  with breaks in the headstock/neck area because that area is by far the weakest spot on banjo necks that have a trussrod pocket in the conventional location up by the nut.

I repair three to five of these sorts of breaks in an average year, but so far I've never personally seen a Goodtime finger joint come apart.

~Pete

Montanarick - Posted - 08/09/2012:  15:07:46

I agree with Pete about the finger joint....Taylor website used to have a good write up on the finger joint and why they believe it's a good way to go. The reason you notice it so much on the Goodtime is because of the light natural finish of the banjo.

Just found this on the Taylor site:

 Introduced in 1999 and a standard feature on Taylor guitars since 2001, the patented New Technology (NT) neck was designed by Bob Taylor and his team to accomplish the primary goal of building a straighter, more stable guitar neck. While some necks may bend in the face of humidity and other factors, the NT neck stays stable and straight. 

Edited by - Montanarick on 08/09/2012 15:15:02

Montanarick - Posted - 08/09/2012:  15:23:55

Thought this might be of interest....scarf and finger joints.

.

Edited by - Montanarick on 08/09/2012 15:29:53

LouZee Picker - Posted - 08/10/2012:  04:43:56

Out of all the thousands of Goodtime banjos Deering has sold I've think this is only like the second time that I've heard about this happening. Deering has a great track record for these entry level line of banjos, I still say there the best banjo for the money. Especially of you pick one up used. I've owned 2 goodtimes for 8 or 9 years & have had zero issues with either one and wouldn't hesitate to buy another. They play & sound great!

Brian

Frank Ford - Posted - 08/10/2012:  07:23:16

I've reglued quite a number of peghead finger joints. Medium viscosity cyanoacrylate works wonders in that situation - it fills gaps, sticks like crazy, has good strength and heat resistance.

Deaf Lester Crawdad - Posted - 08/10/2012:  11:14:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank Ford

I've reglued quite a number of peghead finger joints. Medium viscosity cyanoacrylate works wonders in that situation - it fills gaps, sticks like crazy, has good strength and heat resistance.

---

 Frank,

Do you know of a way to keep the excess Cy that squeezes out of the joint from screwing up the finish, or do you just wipe off the excess as quickly as you can and then touch up the finish afterwards?

A friend of mine suggested heavily waxing the areas in question before gluing since Cy won't stick to wax very well, but I'm dubious about being able to wax the finish without getting any wax onto the exposed portions of the finger joint; which would keep the glue from holding there as well!

~Pete

hektic - Posted - 08/10/2012:  16:15:48

This is the response I got back from Deering.. In short I'm out of luck.

"Hi Dan,

Thanks for your patience. I reminded the quality control officer of your picture and have heard back from him.

The break on the peghead/neck joint cannot be repaired. You will need a new neck which would not be covered under warranty.

The cost of a new neck is $199 plus shipping. You can send the banjo to us to install it or you can install on your end.

We would ship the neck and hanger bolts UNINSTALLED as those need to match your pot assembly and would need to be drilled on-site.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help.

Sincerely,

Deering Banjo Company

Director of Public Relations"

Montanarick - Posted - 08/10/2012:  16:32:40

quote: Boo!!!!! And I'm a Goodtime fan........Since this came from the Public Relations Director???? I think it would be good public relations for them to fix it or give you a new neck. If finger joints are in tact they can be repaired and If they are in tact it means you didn't run over your banjo neck with a truck......the glue probably failed. And if this occurrence is so rare you would think it would be relatively inexpensive for Deering to stand behind the process. I'm disappointed in them on this one......Rick

P.S. hektic.....I think the only reason you had any crack at all was because of the string tension pulling on the headstock when the glue failed

---

Originally posted by hektic

This is the response I got back from Deering.. In short I'm out of luck.

"Hi Dan,

Thanks for your patience. I reminded the quality control officer of your picture and have heard back from him.

The break on the peghead/neck joint cannot be repaired. You will need a new neck which would not be covered under warranty.

The cost of a new neck is $199 plus shipping. You can send the banjo to us to install it or you can install on your end.

We would ship the neck and hanger bolts UNINSTALLED as those need to match your pot assembly and would need to be drilled on-site.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help.

 

Sincerely,

Deering Banjo Company

Director of Public Relations"

---

Edited by - Montanarick on 08/10/2012 16:38:32

DeanT - Posted - 08/10/2012:  16:37:41

Wonder what would happen if Deering got a bunch of e-mails with the link to this thread....

Every now and then, I think common sense, the love for the banjo, and damage control, should override warrantee and the value of one darn Goodtime neck. 

As of this post 1673 people read this thread. How many of them will remember this thread, and the photos, and the response, from now on, every time they think about a new banjo, or offer advise to someone about a new banjo? 

Edited by - DeanT on 08/10/2012 16:46:24