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uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/18/2012: 17:40:55
as I write this - May 18th 2012. Douglas Dillard has died - May his soul rest in peace. He was my favorite banjo player - bar none - I have internalized all the Dillards records, have them all including the one with Byron Berline, where I understood "A", and I have watched every Andy Griffiths episode featuring “the Darlings” at least 10 times.
When the banjos I am making for a project I'm posting on the hangout are finally done, the sound files I use to represent them will be either “Doug’s Tune”, Banjo in the Hollow” or both. I will miss him - his sound was always my “model” of what a bluegrass banjo should sound like, and I have always built and set up my banjos accordingly. I have a banjo like (one of) his, which I use as a test to "keep me honest" as I build banjos - I sure can't play like him, though.
The Pope - Posted - 05/18/2012: 18:07:30
RIP Douglas Flint Dillard... 
kwl - Posted - 05/18/2012: 18:29:21
Another great loss to our musical community. He will be missed. My sympathy goes out to his family and friends.
David Ward - Posted - 05/18/2012: 18:55:50
I remember watching him on Andy Griffith and was amazed by the sound he could get from the banjo. Truly one of a kind that we will all miss and remember.
Seeders - Posted - 05/18/2012: 20:10:08
Sad news indeed. He's always been a big influence on me as well. We're playing a festival tomorrow and I'll make sure to play 'Banjo in the Hollow' and 'There is a Time' during our set to honor Doug and his unforgettable influence on the banjo world.
timberliner - Posted - 05/18/2012: 20:11:34
Another banjo great has passed on! He will be missed by all.
schwimbo - Posted - 05/19/2012: 02:42:26
I had heard that Doug Dillard was in very bad health a little while ago (just before Earl died), but the news of his death is of course still sad.
Everybody probably has their own memories of Doug (from either seeing him in person or from hearing his playing). I remember first hearing him on the Back Porch Bluegrass album that the Dillards put out in the 1960s. There was some killer banjo playing on it, which I tried to copy as best as I could. Doug had a great sounding Gibson archtop banjo (most people seem to play flatheads these days) and his sound just crackled with energy and drive. Lots of people were influenced by Doug (Alan Munde being one prominent player who comes to mind). I had quite a few Dillard albums back then, but Back Porch Bluegrass was one that I remember as having the most profound effect on me.
Well, I'm sorry that Doug won't be around to play his banjo here anymore, but I am very grateful to have had the chance to hear him (and meet him), and be influenced by his playing (along with recently deceased master Earl).
Kurt Kemp - Posted - 05/19/2012: 03:53:40
He was truly one of the greats!
Couchie - Posted - 05/19/2012: 04:58:58
This is sad news indeed. Doug Dillard was a big part of my musical upbringing and he always had my respect as a musician. I never got the chance to see him live, but I've heard first hand reports of his wonderful musicianship and personality.
My sincere condolences to all his friends, fans and family.
Don.
jbbaldwin - Posted - 05/19/2012: 11:47:42
He will be missed... I certainly enjoy his music.
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/19/2012: 14:29:29
I'm going to post some sound files of Doug - They will kick these off, so listen quick. I'll be deleting these files very soon.
"Banjo in the Hollow" is Doug's version of "Cripple Creek".
"Liberty" is an 18th Century tune, I forget what it's called, and, of course, "Doug's Tune" is just that - Doug's tune.
wuzapicker - Posted - 05/19/2012: 22:11:24
I never knew much about Doug Dillard. He was not among the professional pickers who influenced me. I don't think I became aware of the Dillards band until Doug had already departed their group. On the advice of a friend, I bought a Dillard's LP "Tribute to the American Duck" expecting to get Bluegrass, and instead found a kind of folk/rock fusion sound with Billy Ray Latham playing banjo on a few selections.
In retrospect I see the loss was mine. It wasn't until Mr. Dillard became sick that I was reminded of his contribution. Now that he is gone, another great among the fold is also for the ages, one who will be missed but not forgotten.
yumagah - Posted - 05/20/2012: 10:36:19
Some of the bluegrass yokels here might not know about his fine work on the two Dillard and Clark albums. Outstanding banjo work on "No Longer a Sweetheart of Mine" and "Bowed my Head and Cried Holy".
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/20/2012: 14:00:19
A couple points of interest:
(1) In the Movie "Bonnie and Clyde" "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" was (of course) a vintage Earl Scruggs recording. The producers needed a lot of "filler music" for the rest of the movie. Doug played all of that, matching the vintage old recording Earl sound with an archtop.
(2) I remember back in the late 60s, after the Folk boom burst, there was still a demand for banjo music for commercials, etc. I was told by someone who knew, that any production using bluegrass music on the east coast, would be done by Eric Weissberg, on the West Coast by Doug Dillard.
(3) As a session musician, Doug's banjo is heard on recordings by Hoyt Axton, Johnnie Cash, Vassar Clements, John Hartford, Harry Nilsson, Linda Ronstadt, Glen Campbell, the Monkees, the Byrds, even the Beach Boys (I don't want to hear whatever he played with the Beach Boys).
One funny thing about it is that when Eric Weissberg (a classically trained professional musician) got the job to play "dueling banjos" in "Deliverance", there came to be a little bit of a dispute, because the Dillards had recorded a version of "Dueling Banjos" prior to "Deliverance". East is east and west is west, and never the twain shall meet. I always liked the Eric Weissberg version.
If anyone is interested, I'll post it.
Any way, Doug, years ago, was inducted into the Bluegrass preservation Hall of Fame (SPBGMA).
Alex Z - Posted - 05/20/2012: 17:55:01
Doug Dillard, with his banjo, had a cameo appearance in the movie "Popeye," that starred Robin Williams as Popeye."
Camera was panning upward on a number of (what I dimly recall) as windows or frames, and there he was. Hey, I know that guy!
ceemonster - Posted - 05/20/2012: 20:13:17
what does it mean when you see here and there a remark to the effect that mr. dillard's three-finger arrangements hearkened to an "older style"? i like his arrangements, and would like to learn specifically how they are "older" than the scruggs three-finger arrangements....
Bless him....Green Corn!
dickinnorwich - Posted - 05/21/2012: 07:04:43
Ken, et. al.
I think it's fair to say that I'm one of those people who was influenced by Doug. Iconoclast that I am, I always preferred the sound of an archtop to a flathead. One of the first albums I ever bought was Back Porch. In the mid-70's, when I was first starting out, I was taking lessons from a guy who said I should be listening to Doug Dillard. I didn't know about the Darlings because during the 60's, I never saw any TV. I was at school, hunched over a drawing board drawing straight lines for 14 hours/day, 7 days/wk. But I learned. I would guess that Foggy Mountain Banjo and Back Porch Bluegrass were probably the two most influential albums on a generation of banjo players ever produced.
yumagah - Posted - 05/21/2012: 07:13:57
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
quote:
Originally posted by yumagah
the bluegrass yokels here
You could have just posted this:
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/21/2012: 08:22:59
Thanks, Dick,
Having learned from Winnie Winston with his BB, I'd say we're in the same boat, I know nothing about an "older picking style". I guess there are guys who compulsively analyze that stuff - which finger you start with, back rolls, yada yada and as you know, "analysis" begins with a,n,a,l.
Anyway, in Doug's song and tablature book, he says he started playing the guitar at age 5, and got a banjo for Christmas when he was 15. He was so taken by Earl Scruggs, that he got his family to drive him 500 miles to Earl's house and had the courage to knock on the door, introduce himself to Earl and ask Earl if he would install a set of Scruggs pegs on his new banjo, which Earl did.
So whatever the analysis might be of Doug's playing style, his most powerful influence was Earl Scruggs, and his playing style seems very straightforward to me.
Bob Murphy - Posted - 05/21/2012: 09:27:56
Doug was one of the first banjo players I listened to closely, and Banjo in the Hollow was the first tune I learned. At that time, I know nothing about the differences between a flat top and an archtop.
Can somebody give some information about Doug's banjo?
dickinnorwich - Posted - 05/21/2012: 12:21:07
Not to steal this thread.....but does anyone recall the link between John Hartford (Harford) and Doug Dillard? I know they were both the same age (b. 1937) and both spent their childhoods in Missouri. But Doug was from Salem and John, while originally from NY, had moved to the suburbs of St. Louis as a youth. Since these respective locations were not exactly around the corner, I'm wondering how these guys got to be good friends?
Tall Grass - Posted - 05/21/2012: 13:24:20
Recorded a program on RFD TV over the weekend not knowing anything about him actually. The program was on RFD TV and had a great story and interview with him at his original and final home place in Salem Mo. (I believe). Interesting and I quickly put two and two together when he told the story of how he got the job on Andy Griffin show. He was and will always be a great banjo picker. Couldnt wait for the episodes with the Darling family just for the banjo picker. Didnt know who he was, now I know. Thanks for the tunes Ken.
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/21/2012: 13:28:26
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Murphy
Doug was one of the first banjo players I listened to closely, and Banjo in the Hollow was the first tune I learned. At that time, I know nothing about the differences between a flat top and an archtop.
Can somebody give some information about Doug's banjo?
Bob,
If you look at the first picture I posted, that is an archtop Granada. You can tell it's a Granada by the gold plating and the engraving pattern on the armrest:
The primary difference between this banjo and Earl's is flathead vs arch top. Notice the Presto tailpiece. He was greatly influenced by Earl - I think the archtop might have been his way of differentiating himself.
Doug also had a Bella Voce (of course, these all have conversion necks), and you can see the back of the resonator on one of the album covers. Doug's banjos closely Parallel Steve Martin's (who can afford anything) banjos.
On the Andy Griffith Show, he was playing a 60s bow-tie archtop, and for a BRIEF period, he had a flathead.
REALLY, though, he was an archtop guy. His playing was VERY precise, staccato,almost machine-like - a lot of crisp double pull-offs - all things that play into the archtop sound. He was a master at "knitting doilies" in the upper register while others were playing, another thing that archtops are good at.
His backup of fiddle tunes on the album they made with Byron Berline is masterful. He was very inventive.
Hope that answers your question.
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/21/2012: 14:14:58
quote:
Originally posted by dickinnorwich
Not to steal this thread.....but does anyone recall the link between John Hartford (Harford) and Doug Dillard? I know they were both the same age (b. 1937) and both spent their childhoods in Missouri. But Doug was from Salem and John, while originally from NY, had moved to the suburbs of St. Louis as a youth. Since these respective locations were not exactly around the corner, I'm wondering how these guys got to be good friends?
Dick,
You are not stealing the thread -this is the history of the music we love. Some of us have been around longer than others, so have observed more.
You have to go back to the 60s. The Greenbriar Boys and the Dillards (and Bob Dylan, omigod) were part of the folk music genre, of which Bluegrass was a segment.
I have an album (I'm trying to find - Hootenanny, New Folks - I have it some where) that had Joan Baez, the Greenbriar Boys, I forget who all and the Dillards playing "Somebody Touched Me"). WOW - it sure touched ME.
The Greenbriar Boys backed up Joan Baez on several songs - Bluegrass was folk music - not country music:
Here's "Darlin' pal of mine" does it take you back?: We were all influenced by these things
SO John Hartford was one of those folksingers - I watched him on the Smothers Brothers before they got kicked off the air. I'm sure they all knew each other, and after the bubble burst, they still supported one another.
Bluegrass became "country" instead of "folk" and shifted sadly rightward. John Herald played guitar for Bonnie Raitt and others, and eventually committed suicide. The music business is not all that friendly.
From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 05/21/2012: 15:33:24
quote:
Originally posted by uncle.fogey
You have to go back to the 60s. The Greenbriar Boys and the Dillards (and Bob Dylan, omigod) were part of the folk music genre, of which Bluegrass was a segment.
I have an album (I'm trying to find - Hootenanny, New Folks - I have it some where) that had Joan Baez, the Greenbriar Boys, I forget who all and the Dillards playing "Somebody Touched Me"). WOW - it sure touched ME.
The Greenbriar Boys backed up Joan Baez on several songs - Bluegrass was folk music - not country music:
Bluegrass became "country" instead of "folk" and shifted sadly rightward. John Herald played guitar for Bonnie Raitt and others, and eventually committed suicide. The music business is not all that friendly.
Ken
For the point of conversation and clarification I might add that Bluegrass in the 50's started out as country music and played the same venues and shows as Opry Stars. Bean Blossom is in fact one of the oldest outdoor country venues in the USA. When the folk era came in and to sell Flatt & Scruggs and Monroe to the college crowd and the northern crowd, it got called folk music. So IMO it was called "folk" music to catch a ride with the trend. Now I am not saying that bluegrass may not be truer folk music than the Brothers 4 or Peter Paul and Mary (all of whom I liked very much) but it was not the "commercial" folk music of the 60's but a sub genre of country music. We all know of the sign in front of the Ryman Auditorium listing is as the birthplace of bluegrass music. 
Ken
Edited by - From Greylock to Bean Blossom on 05/21/2012 15:40:26
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/21/2012: 16:01:18
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
quote:
Originally posted by uncle.fogey
You have to go back to the 60s. The Greenbriar Boys and the Dillards (and Bob Dylan, omigod) were part of the folk music genre, of which Bluegrass was a segment.
I have an album (I'm trying to find - Hootenanny, New Folks - I have it some where) that had Joan Baez, the Greenbriar Boys, I forget who all and the Dillards playing "Somebody Touched Me"). WOW - it sure touched ME.
The Greenbriar Boys backed up Joan Baez on several songs - Bluegrass was folk music - not country music:
Bluegrass became "country" instead of "folk" and shifted sadly rightward. John Herald played guitar for Bonnie Raitt and others, and eventually committed suicide. The music business is not all that friendly.
Ken
For the point of conversation and clarification I might add that Bluegrass in the 50's started out as country music and played the same venues and shows as Opry Stars. Bean Blossom is in fact one of the oldest outdoor country venues in the USA. When the folk era came in and to sell Flatt & Scruggs and Monroe to the college crowd and the northern crowd, it got called folk music. So IMO it was called "folk" music to catch a ride with the trend. Now I am not saying that bluegrass may not be truer folk music than the Brothers 4 or Peter Paul and Mary (all of whom I liked very much) but it was not the "commercial" folk music of the 60's but a sub genre of country music. We all know of the sign in front of the Ryman Auditorium listing is as the birthplace of bluegrass music.
Ken
I understand completely, and I have no disagreement.
The question I was responding to was about a "forced relationship" between Douglas Dillard and John Hartford, and the place where they intersect is folk music.
What I am saying is that there are a LOT of banjo players from my generation who would NEVER have embraced bluegrass music at all if it wasn't for the Kingston Trio - Greenbriar Boys - Eric Weissberg - Dillards - John Hartford transition.
Maybe Bluegrass music would have been better off without us - probably would be, or the "folks" ha ha who led us into it. I'm just talking about the history from that era. There was a brief and shining moment when it was mainstream.
The Pope - Posted - 05/21/2012: 19:40:04
I went right from the Kingston Trio directly to F&S. Then Bess Hawes told me (I was taking a class from her) about the Dillards and since I lived on the West Coast, I glommed onto them toot sweet! Learned a lot of banjo by watching Doug from the front row (Thanks, Bob Uecker). Last time I saw them was about 2 years ago when Doug & Rodney toured. They talked almost as much as they played but it was real interesting. Doug was having some trouble playing even then...
yumagah - Posted - 05/22/2012: 07:25:51
On the Dillards album from 1981 "Homecoming and Family Reunion", there are spoken segments about how they knew each other in their younger days, and used to play together into the night until they all fell asleep holding their instruments. So they went back before their show business days.
o2playlikeEarl - Posted - 05/23/2012: 04:38:02
Seems like I read somewhere he stood in for Earl Scruggs when Earl was involved in an auto accident , sick or something and couldn't make some F&S dates. That speaks for his talent I'd say.
Old Hickory - Posted - 05/23/2012: 06:52:22
quote:
Originally posted by wuzapicker
On the advice of a friend, I bought a Dillard's LP "Tribute to the American Duck" expecting to get Bluegrass, and instead found a kind of folk/rock fusion sound with Billy Ray Latham playing banjo on a few selections
I think the Dillards' best recordings are the first two post-Doug albums Wheatstraw Suite and Copperfields. Herb Pedersen is on banjo on those. You're going to hear the beginnings of country rock in there, but some fine bluegrass, too.
Back Porch Bluegrass and Live! Almost! are their first two early 60s albums with Doug on banjo. Straight bluegrass. Very traditional sounding. Not as smooth as the newgrass sound they'd get into later -- or that Doug would develop with ex-Byrd Gene Clark in the two Dillard & Clark albums. Now THAT's something you need to hear. The production values are so much better than on the early Dillards albums. Doug's banjo simply sparkles.
Also search out The Banjo Album, Doug's all-instrumental record from the late 60s. And The Doug Dillard Band.
Lots of great Doug Dillard banjo recordings out there.
Colestep - Posted - 05/23/2012: 13:24:16
I hated to hear of the Passing of Doug Dillard. When I lived in LA during the 60's I wanted to play Banjo so I got a cheap Kay for $50. and found a teacher. That was John McKuen. He told me if I wanted to see a really great Banjo player I should go see the Dillards. After once seeing Doug Dillard play I was hooked. Every weekend they played in the LA and or Orange county area I was there sitting on the front row watching Doug play. I swear his fingers were 12 inches long. I eventually got a Bow Tie Arch top from Eagle music down town LA and John taught me my first Dillard tune, Doug's Tune.
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/23/2012: 14:08:56
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickory
quote:
Originally posted by wuzapicker
On the advice of a friend, I bought a Dillard's LP "Tribute to the American Duck" expecting to get Bluegrass, and instead found a kind of folk/rock fusion sound with Billy Ray Latham playing banjo on a few selections
I think the Dillards' best recordings are the first two post-Doug albums Wheatstraw Suite and Copperfields. Herb Pedersen is on banjo on those. You're going to hear the beginnings of country rock in there, but some fine bluegrass, too.
Back Porch Bluegrass and Live! Almost! are their first two early 60s albums with Doug on banjo. Straight bluegrass. Very traditional sounding. Not as smooth as the newgrass sound they'd get into later -- or that Doug would develop with ex-Byrd Gene Clark in the two Dillard & Clark albums. Now THAT's something you need to hear. The production values are so much better than on the early Dillards albums. Doug's banjo simply sparkles.
Also search out The Banjo Album, Doug's all-instrumental record from the late 60s. And The Doug Dillard Band.
Lots of great Doug Dillard banjo recordings out there.
Thanks for your insight!
One of my favorites is the "Live" album which shows their sense of humor - their (old blue) explanation of the difference between Joan Baez's feeling about blue tick-hounds (which she had obviously never dealt with) - what happens when one has holed up in the outhouse (100 yards too close in the summer and 100 yards to far away in the winter, on a cold winter night, and you are in an "emergency kind of situation"- rhinestone collars on dogs, LA vs the Ozarks, is top-of the line, as is their take on the plot of "Pretty Polly" (no good guys).
I have Doug's all instrumental album, which has an alternative version of "Doug's Tune".
One of my favorites is the album with Byron Berline. I learned a lot about playing with fiddle players from that one.
uncle.fogey - Posted - 05/23/2012: 14:15:53
quote:
Originally posted by Colestep
I hated to hear of the Passing of Doug Dillard. When I lived in LA during the 60's I wanted to play Banjo so I got a cheap Kay for $50. and found a teacher. That was John McKuen. He told me if I wanted to see a really great Banjo player I should go see the Dillards. After once seeing Doug Dillard play I was hooked. Every weekend they played in the LA and or Orange county area I was there sitting on the front row watching Doug play. I swear his fingers were 12 inches long. I eventually got a Bow Tie Arch top from Eagle music down town LA and John taught me my first Dillard tune, Doug's Tune.
WOW, that is amazing!
When it forst came out, I wondered why Doug Dillard wasn't in the "May the Circle be Unbroken" album - I guess it would have been too many banjo players. If I was John McKuen, and I was doing that. I'd have wanted Earl, too - hands down.
It's so sad that both of them are gone.
