jbalch - Posted - 01/14/2012:  18:41:55

Another privale label banjo built by Bacon.  I've not seen a Le Mar before. Interesting ...but I think the blue is ugly.

ebay.com/itm/LE-MAR-BANJO-4-ST...cfd99b201

Edited by - jbalch on 01/16/2012 17:43:16

tdennis - Posted - 01/14/2012:  19:52:05

I like the blue.   W/ out the blue , it wouldn't be " Le Mar",  (the sea).   ( I bet you'll get used to it after awhile, & enjoy it's uniqueness).  

Edited by - tdennis on 01/14/2012 19:54:31

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/15/2012:  00:08:58

John,

Built by Gretsch, I think - not Bacon. I have another example in my database.

Polle

jbalch - Posted - 01/15/2012:  05:23:09

Thanks Polle:  I found your previous references to Le Mar in this old thread:  banjohangout.org/archive/183870

NYCJazz - Posted - 01/15/2012:  19:23:04

I gotta disagree with Polle on this one.

I see no differences with my Groton Kingston. 

All the hardware is the same... Even the case is identical. The only difference I see is it doesn't have the grommet around the resonator screw that mine has.

rudykizuty - Posted - 01/16/2012:  02:41:52

Time to open her up and look inside ;)

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  04:17:37

I am bidding on the Le Mar hoping that it is a post-war New York City Gretsch.

If not, I would rather it go to a loving Bacon/Groton home. 

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/16/2012:  04:29:33

Nathan,

Well - have you ever met a late 40s/early 50s Senorita? LOL!  Also they are very close to your Kingston.

Do notice my words "I think" - the "Le Mar" in my database was most likely reported by Vinnie 4-5 years ago - he had an example in his workshop back then - I haven´t kept the record or any pics.

I´ve learned my lesson regarding these old jos - never say never - especially if only a few examples/infos/records are at hand. Thus the "I think"!

Polle

​PS!

​Do notice the non-precise engravings at the peghead - absolutely not of the usual Bacon standard!

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 01/16/2012 04:33:33

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  08:10:10

I called the seller, John.  Dowel and rim stamped 33787.  No other stamps.

Gave John Polle's database and database information.

Looks like a 1934.

And, we have another name to add to the Bacon banjos list: Le Mar.

jbalch - Posted - 01/16/2012:  09:48:41

Be careful.   I think Gretsch used a number system that duplicated some of the earlier serial numbers (see Polle's database after 1940).   the Le Mar reported by Vinnie Mondelo is serial number 33794. I think it still could be a later Gretsch if it is not marked "Made By The Bacon Banjo Co. Groton, CT."  But  I not sure of anything....

I e-mailed the seller also.  He responded to say he is re-starting the auction with new information.  I encouraged him to include photos of the inside and all marks so folks could decide for themselves. 

Edited by - jbalch on 01/16/2012 09:55:52

rudykizuty - Posted - 01/16/2012:  10:17:13

Right.....It can't be 1934 AND Gretsch!

Dr Ralph - Posted - 01/16/2012:  11:19:00

This maybe where the banjo got its name

The Le-Mar Banjo Quartet.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/16/2012:  11:28:33

Guys,

Yes - I thought so - the lack of the "Made by Bacon etc." stamp puts it in the Post-Groton department. Ed Britt will agree, I think.

John H. - I still have to see a Bacon / Groton build not having this stamp - the fantastic builders back then were very proud of their "products".

So we´re back to where we were - the Le Mar´s will have to be considered Gretsch builds - from late 40s / early 50s I guess for now.

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 01/16/2012 11:40:03

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/16/2012:  11:31:25

Dean,

Also I found this picture - LOL! - but NO!

"Le Mar" has been used at all times and at all places all over the world.

But great to see a picture of an UK banjo band back in the 30s.

Polle

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  11:37:51

On this Le Mar the serial number is stamped on the dowel and rim.

We have previously discussed the dual stamping and the consensus was that this was a Bacon feature.

Gretsch stamped the serial number only the dowel.

Nathan thinks the Le Mar is a Bacon based on his comparison with the Kingston.

Slingerland pointed out to me that the tailpiece is consistent with 1930's.

I wrote to Vinnie about his Le Mar and he said:

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/16/2012:  11:49:30

John,

No - No and No!

You can find early Gretsch´s with SN stamps in both places.

The 30s style Presto could be one of your "transition" left-overs. LOL!  Or a replacement.

Forget about Vinnie - the reason for me owning the "priceless and without doubt best tenor banjo ever built" is based on Vinnie´s confusion about "transitions". And also the reason for me starting my Bacon/B&D research many moons ago.

Polle

PS!

But still - never say never!

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 01/16/2012 11:51:21

jbalch - Posted - 01/16/2012:  12:42:25

Relisted: ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BACON-4-S...5b8b2c955

Because it lacks a Groton stamp, I'd guess it is Gretsch-made with left-over B&D Parts. 

New images added: 

Edited by - jbalch on 01/16/2012 12:51:51

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  14:04:32

This begs the question of Gretsch made with Bacon parts -  but IMO the neck yoke is a Bacon type yoke.  It is not a post WWII Gretsch/Bacon neck yoke.

With great respect for the observations of John and Polle, I ask:

Do you think this blue Bacon was produced in 1930's to test competition with the Gibson TB 11 tenor banjos?

Do you think Gretsch made Bacon-style banjos with "private" labels?  I don't. 

Did Bacon make Senorita-style "private" label banjos?  You bet.  A bunch of them trying to survive the depression and the banjo bust.  John Balch got us to make a list of all of them.  IMO this Le Mar is another Bacon "private" label banjo to go with Rajah, Kingston, Gordon, Armstrong, Lyric and (my all time favorite) Art-i-so just to name a few.

It defies logic to postulate that as Bacon was flooding and Mr. Day was seeking a substitute maker and Gretsch was gearing up to make Bacon banjos under Mr. Day's requirements and supervision and the transition was occurring with transportation of labor, parts and materials and gretsch was making space in Brooklyn for the new line and a War in Europe was underway and looming here that suddently Gretsch would introduce a brand new blue pearlette Senorita look-alike with a name like Le Mar.  

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  14:39:25

Then, again, taking a cue from tdennis - Maybe the Le Mar was a special banjo concieved by Mr. Day to commemorate the sea that flooded the Groton works???

rudykizuty - Posted - 01/16/2012:  15:08:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by NYCJazz

I gotta disagree with Polle on this one.

I see no differences with my Groton Kingston. 

All the hardware is the same... Even the case is identical. The only difference I see is it doesn't have the grommet around the resonator screw that mine has.

---

I too feel it is uncanny how closely this banjo resembles my 1935 Groton Senorita sn 34431. The grain, coloring and finish of the wood in the neck is identical to mine, as are the concentric rings engraved on the resonator back and sides. The engraving on the pearloid heel cap is identical, as are many of the fingerboard markings, albeit with many in different fret positions. The interior of the banjo also matches in every detail with exception to the missing "Made By" marking. Even the numeric SN stampings look like original Bacon, very different from what I have seen on Gretsch banjos. My banjo also lacks the resonator screw grommet and resembles this screw exactly.

Truly uncanny. 

Is it so inconceivable that Bacon could have made an error of omission in not having the "Made by" mark stamped? Or perhaps they relented to the wishes of the "Le-Mar" people on a spec that dictated no maker marking? 

Edited by - rudykizuty on 01/16/2012 15:19:46

jbalch - Posted - 01/16/2012:  17:35:50

I went back to re-read Ed Britt's essay on Bacon serial numbers on Mugwumps: mugwumps.com/BaconSerialNumbers.html  Now I'm really confused....

If I read it correctly, there are three (3) possibilities for a banjo with serial number 33787.  Those would be:

1. Groton-made in the mid 1930's (1934 ~ per Polle's database).

2. Gretsch-made between 1940 and 1965.  During this time Gretsch used serial numbers in-order starting with #1 and running sequentially up to #84,xxx.  These were apparently applied to guitars and banjos.  33787 would have occurred at some point within that run. Beginning with number 1 on 1939 or 40....one would assume it was a few years before the series reached 33787.  1950's maybe?

3. Gretsch made after 1965 when they used numbers which signified a month and year of production .. and the number within that batch.  In that scheme, this banjo would date from March 1973 (instrument number 787 in the batch).

If this LeMar was Groton-made, it is only 479 units away from my Special #2 banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=2857

And only 365 away from this Gordon: banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=2771

Edited by - jbalch on 01/16/2012 17:45:46

beezaboy - Posted - 01/16/2012:  19:42:23

Mondello reported Le Mar S/N 33794.   The ebay Le Mar is S/N 33787.  Seven digits.

Bacon serial numbers are thought to be consecutive.  Hence, Polle's list of Bacon serial numbers with dates assigned.

Gretsch/Bacon serial numbers are not consecutive.  They seem to be chaotic for those attempting to date Gretsch/Bacons by serial number.

From a serial number standpoint alone one could conclude that Bacon/Groton produced some Le Mar banjos at about 337XX-38XXX.

For example see the run of 1926 B&D Silver Bell banjos S/N 19883 to 20201 in Polle's database.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/16/2012:  22:05:34

Guys,

Well - maybe I should delete the two Le Mar´s from my database.

There´s in fact no proof for their origin or vintage. They may f.ex. have been finished and assembled by a third party - based on purchased or stolen parts. I don´t know - neither do any of you!

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/17/2012:  06:57:27

John H.,

Bacon did most likely build and finish the parts for various models in batches - however it´s the common perception, that they were stamped with serial numbers following only the daily row of assemblies and shipments.

So you can´t take for granted, that banjos with SN´s between 33787 and 33794 are all Le Mar´s!  If manufactured by Bacon at all!

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 01/17/2012 06:59:44

beezaboy - Posted - 01/17/2012:  09:12:41

It is a shame that no one seems to have the production records for the Bacon Manufacturing Company, Inc.

beezaboy - Posted - 01/17/2012:  09:47:16

I got out my B&D Seville S/N 35656 (a Type II - Bacon/Groton parts assembled by Gretsch)

Pot hardware identical to Le Mar.  Same brackets, same bracket hooks, same bracket nuts, and same bracket slotted screws.  Same notched tension hoop.  Look at the end pin.  Very unique.  The Le Mar and the Seville have identical end pins.  The Le Mar and Seville sport the same neck yokes.  The Seville headstock shape is the same but I don't have the Le Mar dimensions to say exact.  The 3 piece neck is somewhat different with a wider center strip on Le Mar.  The Seville has Grover pat. machines. 

Main difference - the Seville is a plain jane...the Le Mar has pizzazz.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/17/2012:  10:41:40

John H.,

Pardon me for getting a little "sharp" now!

Who says, that Bacon production records haven´t been preserved/saved - I take, that you´ve noticed the whereabouts of the Gibson prewar shipping records - maybe someone has in fact by luck got hand of the prewar Bacon records - if so, why not I?

Secondly - the comparison between your 1939 Seville and the Le Mar in question - combined with some well known features for the late 40s / early 50s Gretsch built Bacon/B&D´s - clearly shows, that the Le Mar´s may have been manufactured post WW II - or at least post Mr. Day!

Thirdly - maybe Mr. Day back in 1934 disliked the "strange" Le Mar - if produced at that time - so much, that he didn´t want to add the origin stamp? LOL!

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  02:23:14

John H.,

From the new auction the picture of a label at the case plus a search at the internet gives us the most likely first owner Richard L. Gruenther. He graduated from West Point in 1946 - btw. the address at the label.

Not a proof - but a strong indication of the vintage for the banjo.

Have a look at this article legaleagleproductions.com/default.asp?c=17 and search for his name. Interesting stuff!

Polle

beezaboy - Posted - 01/18/2012:  06:39:31

Very fascinating. 

Here is what I think and why:

The Le Mar was made by the Bacon Manufacturing Company, Inc. in Groton Connecticut circa 1934 (Polle Flaunoe database).  It was made and named under contract as an export model for a European distributor, probably France, and Le Mar is probably a reference to La Marseillaise.  The European distributor contracted that references to "made in U.S. stamps" be ommitted probably for nationalistic reasons.  More specifically:

1.  The Le Mar has that overall Bacon/Groton look for its "budget" (Senorita-type) line of banjos and is consistent with comparisons made by Nathan and Anthony to "private label" banjos bearing the Bacon/Groton stamp

2.  The Le Mar serial number bears the Bacon/Groton style and font and is stamped on the rim and dowel. (see Belmont s/n 107 attached for comparison).  Gretsch/Bacon's do not have rim serial number stamps - only on the dowel.  Type II Gretsch/Bacons made in 1939 have rim and dowel serial number stamps, of course, as they were made under Bacon/Groton supervision.

3.  The Le Mar hardware is consistent with period Bacon/Groton products. (see Nathan & Anthony comparisons).  The Le Mar has a pat. Presto tailpiece - Gretsch/Bacon's do not;  Le Mar has "pin-type" neck yoke and Gretsch/Bacon's do not; Le Mar has "thin" period frets and 1940's Gretsch/Bacon's have fat guitar style frets; 1946 Gretsch/Bacon bracket nuts are different from the 1930's Bacon/Groton nuts that are on the Le Mar.  Do not confuse Gretsch/Bacon Type II banjos made in 1939-early 1940 that have the more Bacon-like appearance and Bacon hardware as Type II Bacons were made with Bacon parts under Bacon overall supervision and specifiacations.

4.  Gretsch/Bacon pearlette plastic has a brighter/flashy look than Bacon/Groton pearloid which is more subdued consistent with the pearloid veneer on the Le Mar.

5.  Gretsch resumed post war Bacon branded banjos in 1946. (Montgomery Ward catalog research).  Gretsch's large distributor catalog of its line of Bacon branded banjos was produced ca 1948.  Late 1940's early 1950's Gretsch/Bacon serial numbers can reach four digits - not five digits as appear the on the two known Le Mar banjos. 

6.  The Bacon/Groton run of Le Mar branded banjos occurred at 337XX and is consistent with Bacon/Groton runs of private label banjos such as the "Rhythm King" banjo run  in 1928. (Polle database).

7.  More likely than not, Gretsch did not make Bacon branded banjos during WWII.  Gretsch did not make Bacon-style "private label" banjos after WWII and only made them, if at all, prior to WWII on orders from Bacon/Groton or a continueum of pre-existing contracts such as the Rajah.

8.  Attached are a few photos of a ca 1946 Gretsch/Bacon Belmont s/n 107 that illustrate the differences between a Gretsch/Bacon and a Groton/Bacon such as the Le Mar.  I have also compared a Gretsch/Bacon Senorita banjo mandolin s/n 67 that have the same features as the Belmont (neck yoke, fat frets, etc).

IMO, and for the foregoing reasons stated here and in my previous posts, the Le Mar was made by Bacon/Groton before Gretsch acquired the Bacon intellectural property and remaining assets.

Gretsch Bacon Belmont s/n 107	Belmont s/n107 frets	Belmont s/n 107 neck yoke	Belmont s/n 107 bracket nuts
Belmont s/n 107 tailpiece

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  07:33:25

John H.,

Indeed a fine summary and theory - but NO!  Absolutely NO!

I´ll not claim/decide, when the Le Mar´s were manufactured - BUT - as somehow indicated yesterday, I have some extra infos about Groton and Post-Groton productions, that you and others do not have - they are for now stored/hidden in my extended/private database.

As an example of your mistake(s) - the Bacon Symphonie Silver Bell tenor - with the 3-digit serial number 893 - is guaranteed manufactured post-1965!  Do think a little or very carefully about this!  LOL!

BTW - why don´t you call/write Colonel Richard L. Gruenther about the vintage and provenance for the Le Mar SN 33787 - he´s still alive, I think.

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  14:40:27

John,



Enough teasing - sorry - let me make some serious comments to your posting above:

The Le Mar was made by the Bacon Manufacturing Company, Inc. in Groton Connecticut circa 1934 (Polle Flaunoe database). It was made and named under contract as an export model for a European distributor, probably France, and Le Mar is probably a reference to La Marseillaise.  The European distributor contracted that references to "made in U.S. stamps" be ommitted probably for nationalistic reasons.

What???  Isn´t this an indeed wild shot?  You can find several US references to the names Le Mar og LeMar.  And BTW - we were/are not that nationalistic in Europe (except for some/many crazy Germans and Italians back then - LOL!).  Made in USA has always been a quality "stamp" over here!

1.  The Le Mar has that overall Bacon/Groton look for its "budget" (Senorita-type) line of banjos and is consistent with comparisons made by Nathan and Anthony to "private label" banjos bearing the Bacon/Groton stamp



Correct - but also consistent with and looking like some early postwars series as well.







2.  The Le Mar serial number bears the Bacon/Groton style and font and is stamped on the rim and dowel. (see Belmont s/n 107 attached for comparison).  Gretsch/Bacon's do not have rim serial number stamps - only on the dowel.  Type II Gretsch/Bacons made in 1939 have rim and dowel serial number stamps, of course, as they were made under Bacon/Groton supervision.



Wrong - you´ll have to dig deeper - you can find some early postwars stamped with SN´s in both places - with the use of the old type/font.  BUT - without the Groton stamp!







3.  The Le Mar hardware is consistent with period Bacon/Groton products. (see Nathan & Anthony comparisons).  The Le Mar has a pat. Presto tailpiece - Gretsch/Bacon's do not;  Le Mar has "pin-type" neck yoke and Gretsch/Bacon's do not; Le Mar has "thin" period frets and 1940's Gretsch/Bacon's have fat guitar style frets; 1946 Gretsch/Bacon bracket nuts are different from the 1930's Bacon/Groton nuts that are on the Le Mar.  Do not confuse Gretsch/Bacon Type II banjos made in 1939-early 1940 that have the more Bacon-like appearance and Bacon hardware as Type II Bacons were made with Bacon parts under Bacon overall supervision and specifiacations.



Wrong - you´ll have to dig deeper - you can find some early postwars with both the old type yoke, narrow frets and same bracket screws/washers as on prewars.







4.  Gretsch/Bacon pearlette plastic has a brighter/flashy look than Bacon/Groton pearloid which is more subdued consistent with the pearloid veneer on the Le Mar.



Wrong - you´ll have to dig deeper - you can find some early postwars with exactly the same Pearloid as on prewars.







5.  Gretsch resumed post war Bacon branded banjos in 1946. (Montgomery Ward catalog research).  Gretsch's large distributor catalog of its line of Bacon branded banjos was produced ca 1948.  Late 1940's early 1950's Gretsch/Bacon serial numbers can reach four digits - not five digits as appear the on the two known Le Mar banjos. 



Wrong - absolutely wrong - Gretsch used non-consistent 5-digit SN´s several times in both the 40s, 50s and 60s.







6.  The Bacon/Groton run of Le Mar branded banjos occurred at 337XX and is consistent with Bacon/Groton runs of private label banjos such as the "Rhythm King" banjo run  in 1928. (Polle database)



Correct - so far we have not found similar postwar private labels - except maybe for the Le Mar.  But do have my slogan in mind: Never Say Never - LOL!

7.  More likely than not, Gretsch did not make Bacon branded banjos during WWII.  Gretsch did not make Bacon-style "private label" banjos after WWII and only made them, if at all, prior to WWII on orders from Bacon/Groton or a continueum of pre-existing contracts such as the Rajah.

Correct - it´s been told, that material restrictions during the war and other factors didn´t allow for banjo productions.  Regarding postwar private labels - see my comment above.

8.  Attached are a few photos of a ca 1946 Gretsch/Bacon Belmont s/n 107 that illustrate the differences between a Gretsch/Bacon and a Groton/Bacon such as the Le Mar.  I have also compared a Gretsch/Bacon Senorita banjo mandolin s/n 67 that have the same features as the Belmont (neck yoke, fat frets, etc).

​Once again you´re confused by the complete mess in Gretsch serial numbers, it seems!

​As experienced many times you do normally only trust your own investigations, theories and conclusions - so do dig deeper!  I have documentations for all of my remarks above - but I´ll keep them for myself - I don´t want them "interpreted" by others.

Kind regards

Polle

​PS!

Will you be bidding for the Le Mar - maybe I will.

jbalch - Posted - 01/18/2012:  15:05:05

The seller changed his description (again)...I think he has been following this thread: From the revised auction:

Condition very good; Resanator has some scracthing on it from use. The serial #33787 indicates the year made 1934 by a company called Bacon B&D. Made for Le Mar. the serial # is on both the dowel and the inside of the rim. There was not a lot of these made and is quite rare. the head cover is torn and needs to be replace and there are no chips, cracks warping or any other imperfections.

I HAVEBEEN INFORMED BY BANJO EXPERTS THAT THIS IS NOT A BACON AS IT IS NOT SIGNED AND THAT MEANS ITS A GRETSCH 1938 - 1940S,YOU BANJO EXPERTS WILL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE IT ACTUALLY IS I PERSONALLY THINK ITS A GRETSCH ALTHOUGH I'AM NOT 100% SURE.

WELL I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WILL HELP YOU GUYS OR NOT I'VE ADDED TWO PHOTOS ONE SHOWING THE SHIPPING LABEL TO A CADET RICHARD L.GRUENTHER U.S.C.C,CO.B-1 WEST POINT N.Y. GOOD LUCK LET THE BEGINING BEGIN!!!! 

beezaboy - Posted - 01/18/2012:  15:12:01

Polle - I have made a bid but you are certainly welcome to the banjo.  I collect Gretch/Bacon banjos and this isn't one.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  15:24:40

John,

Also I would at first hand say, that this "odd" beauty is a 1934 build - BUT - BUT - BUT - Never Say Never - my scientific comments so far are meant for correcting you and others!  As demonstrated your statements/postings are of no use for dating this banjo.

I´ll try contacting the owner 66 years back - maybe he - if still living - can come up with the full provenance. If so - I´ll at once revise the general database.

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  15:31:22

PS!

I´m for now the high bidder!

Slingerland - Posted - 01/18/2012:  16:06:54

I've been following this thread with much interest, but I think it is time for me to reveal the answer. With the seller providing a photo of the shipping label, I couldn't resist tracking down the individual on the label.

I found an 87 year old Col. Richard L. Gruenther living in Florida. Col. Gruenther was a 1946 Graduate of West Point. Did he ever own a banjo? Yes.

During junior high school, Col. Gruenther purchased his first and ONLY banjo from a music store in Washington, DC. Col. Gruenther says that 1938 is his best estimate for the year he purchased the banjo. When asked for a date range for the purchase, he said it was more likely 1936-1938 than 1938-1940. He does not remember the name of the music store he bought the banjo from. He thinks that the banjo was probably new when he bought it. I really pushed him on the dates and he was certain of the dates given.

Edited by - Slingerland on 01/18/2012 16:08:06

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/18/2012:  16:41:04

Paul,

Thanks - I was just now trying to find his whereabouts and maybe phone him tomorrow.  Oh - isn´t the internet fantastic?

The serial number indicates a 1934 build - back then Mr. Gruenther was 9-10 years old - his junior high school years were appr. 1938-39 - but back then and also later banjos often stayed in stock in music stores for several years - so I take, that he purchased it first-hand in f.ex. 1938.

On basis of this I´ll for now move the two Le Mar´s in my database to the Groton´s - BUT - we still don´t know the reason for the missing Groton stamp at the dowel - and/or the background for this private label Bacon.

Thanks for your great contribution - facts - not guesses - are what we need in our study of history - LOL!

Regards

Polle

jbalch - Posted - 01/18/2012:  16:51:57

Very cool.  It is awesome to know that part of the history of this old banjo. 

NYCJazz - Posted - 01/18/2012:  21:45:06

I would think that a private label Bacon without a Groton stamp would make sense... Seems like a manufacturer's stamp would defeat the idea of a private label.

Ever see a Montgomery Ward Recording King with a Gibson label?

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/19/2012:  01:55:40

Nathan,

Great point - we haven´t seen it before - on other private label Bacon´s - but Never Say Never - and 1934 was depression time - any manufacturer would be happy for any sale, I take.

Bacon´s 1934 production was appr. 750 banjos - in the mid 20s the average annual production was appr. 3,500.

Polle

beezaboy - Posted - 01/19/2012:  02:49:15

Private label Bacon/Groton Art-i-so s/n 32532 not only has the Groton dowel stamp it also has the Bacon resonator plate.

The Le Mar is naked.

Go figure.

Me and Slingerland hope that Polle gets the Le Mar.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/19/2012:  03:51:41

John,

Yes, exactly - that´s what puzzled me. Till recently we had only one example of the Le Mar - due to the lack of a Groton stamp I had to put it into the Post-Groton department. Do also have in mind, that some early postwars do have features, materials and parts plus 5-digit SN stampings identical to the prewars -as pointed out by me.

But now - with the new Le Mar and its provenance - we can re-write history somehow. Thanks all for your contributions.

Interesting stuff.

Polle

Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 01/19/2012 03:53:46

beezaboy - Posted - 01/21/2012:  13:33:08

Congratulations Polle!!

Slingerland - Posted - 01/21/2012:  14:49:03

Well done. Congrats!

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/21/2012:  15:19:23

Thanks, Guys!

I didn´t expect winning the auction - but now I´m looking forward reconditioning it and rebuilding/setting it up to top-performance. I love the Senorita type B&D´s - they have a fantastic sound, playability and projection.

Polle

NYCJazz - Posted - 01/21/2012:  21:42:32

Fantastic! Enjoy it!

I too am an enthusiast! My Kingston (thanks in large part to some fine technical advice from Polle) gets played every day.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/22/2012:  03:46:50

Guys,

For any of you interested - here´s my preliminary calculation for the purchase, import, reconditioning, rebuild and set up for the Le Mar:

So - what started costing 356 bucks - will most likely end up costing net DKK 8,046 ~ USD 1,357 - a multiplying factor of 3.81. LOL!

For more expensive banjos - f.ex. the many B&D Silver Bell´s imported, restored and rebuilt by me - the average net factor over the years has ended at 2.80.

Surprised? 

Polle

beezaboy - Posted - 01/22/2012:  04:39:29

Polle - Sobering calculations.

A thought - Are individual parts taxed less?

Because in future (or now if possible) you can have ebay seller send banjo to me.  I'll carefully disassemble and send banjo in about 5 boxes marked parts/.  Pot in one box, neck tube, hardware little box, resonator box., empty case box.  Just a thought.  My spouse just sent a box with Westie ear medicine to a Netherlands friend and shipping cost wasn't outrageous ($3.50 U.S.) for a box that would accommodate banjo hardware.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 01/22/2012:  05:34:50

John,

Thanks for the offer - but it could in fact be more costly for me. Due to the fixed shipment and customs declaration fee rates.

Also - you´ll have to know (most likely very strange/odd for many US citizens) - I gladly pay my appr. 38% income tax and the general 25% sales tax plus f.ex. import fees/taxes - I and other DK citizens do all benefit from nearly all public services being for free. Plus a lot more!  You may have noticed, that the Danes year after year are appointed the most content and happy population in the world! LOL!

Polle