Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/223718/4
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 07:23:30
The original tail piece on the real Skillethead was a clam shell which is the one on the banjo in the first picture. I was returning it to Ron. The 50s style like in the other picture is more like what will be on them. I am having them made to my design but for now we are putting the real old tail pieces on them. That design was best for this setup. They were designed to hold six strings. I don't know how long it will take to get mine so if there are any good ones out there for sale, I might be in the market for them for a while.
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/10/2012: 08:10:26
Hey all,
I'll respond a little more on the subject of the tailpiece. When I got Daddy SkilletHead, there was a clamshell on it, and it was put on by a luthier in Indiana who worked on and dealt with tons of PreWar banjos(who was luckily the man who worked on this banjo, and not someone dishonest enough to switch parts). The man I purchased Daddy SkilletHead from had taken it to him(sent there by the store he bought the clear head from) to get a clear head put on it(that was over 35 years ago and that was the "in" thing sort of at that time, original skin head was still on it), and while he was putting on the head, he installed three fifth string spikes, and put the clamshell on, while the owner was there. I inquired about the original tailpiece, fifth peg, and case, and he told me they were upstairs somewhere and the "leather" head was in the case as well, and he would have them for me when I brought back the open back banjo I was repairing for him. He was somewhat of a packrat, so thus the reason for "finding it upstairs". When I returned the openback, you can imagine my excitement at the sight of the old case with the light green felt lining in great shape, tailpiece inside, along with the original friction fifth string tuner, and skin head, so I put the original tailpiece back on it, which are the steel ones like we are putting on the new ones, and installed the original fifth string keystone button on the geared fifth peg that was installed at the time the clamshell was put on. Other than that, I have done nothing except put a pre EPA Remo on it, I even left the old Grover bridge that was on it. I knew this man's work from all of the years of being around him, so I knew who put these things on the banjo pretty much without asking. The luthier I speak of also told the owner at that time not to leave that banjo at a repair shop, as it was a very rare bird, and he would be happy to work on it while he was there if the occasion ever arrose, which it didn't and there is the end to that story.
The Yates SkilletHead is in every way possible a copy of that FlatHead, which sounds like no other I have ever played, I have always loved FlatHeads that have a very distinct sound to them, i.e. Old Indy, Banger, etc. and the real SkilletHead is like no other I have ever played. Thus the reason for copying this banjo, and JR. is delivering! Warren's is delivering big time as well, and they have that same character as the Daddy. The best way I can describe it, is those of you who know how a very late style 75 sounds(and it doesn't sound like a 3), but if you married that with a style 3 FatRim from the early years, that is what Daddy and these banjos sound like.
Edited by - Ron Stewart on 01/10/2012 08:12:44
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/10/2012: 08:23:41
I also want to thank the fellows that were at River City who played SH Jr and gave their comments. One of those guys has a very interesting old banjo I have played a tune or two on.
Edited by - Ron Stewart on 01/10/2012 08:24:39
robbyboone - Posted - 01/10/2012: 12:50:39
quote:
Originally posted by robbyboone
quote:
Originally posted by drifty
This is like watching a baby being born. First a rim, then a reso, now we've got a neck. Robby, are you going to be handing out cigars when this baby's delivered?
Absolutely Drew.........what's your brand??? :)
Guys, I may have to craw dad on these cigars......all I can find say " it a girl" or "it's a boy".........what I'm looking for need to say "it's a stud"........reckon I'll have to special order those! ;)
Robby
banjo5don - Posted - 01/10/2012: 14:05:46
quote:
Originally posted by robbyboone
quote:
Originally posted by robbyboone
quote:
Originally posted by drifty
This is like watching a baby being born. First a rim, then a reso, now we've got a neck. Robby, are you going to be handing out cigars when this baby's delivered?
Absolutely Drew.........what's your brand??? :)
Guys, I may have to craw dad on these cigars......all I can find say " it a girl" or "it's a boy".........what I'm looking for need to say "it's a stud"........reckon I'll have to special order those! ;)
Robby
We gonna have to have some photos, video, and audio from you when the "new arrival" (THE STUD) is 'delivered'!
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 15:26:49
Well here are some more sonograms. I thought I heard the pot kick today.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/10/2012 15:28:18
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 15:29:44
Ready for binding.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/10/2012 15:30:21
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 15:34:38
I think we need to plan some way for sure to get a youtube video of Robbie's reaction when he playes it for the first time. Good or bad it is what it is.
robbyboone - Posted - 01/10/2012: 16:46:26
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Yates
I think we need to plan some way for sure to get a youtube video of Robbie's reaction when he playes it for the first time. Good or bad it is what it is.
I don't know if that's a good idea Warren......people that know me will confirm that I'm an emotional person. At the first playing of "Son Of Skillethead" any thing or any combination of things could happen. I might scream, I might cuss, I might crap my drawers or at worst case scenario as I did two weeks ago when I played a Granada (that I'm in the process of buying) when I literally teared up, cried and made a fool of myself, or ALL of the above could happen at one time........and that would be a mess to big for words.
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 17:46:58
On second thought, you might get us all teared up.
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/10/2012: 17:55:17
This was when I was planing the rim wood a few months ago.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/10/2012 17:55:45
rferg - Posted - 01/10/2012: 20:37:20
Robby,
When Junior arrives you are gonna have lots of sleepless nights. Any time you and the Mrs. need a parents night out, I'll be Uncle Bob and play/watch SH Jr. for you.
the-fish - Posted - 01/10/2012: 20:41:26
I like this Skillet head banjo. Are they ready for order now?
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/11/2012: 05:06:49
Robby, I know you read my analogy of the tone of these, can I assume that's ok with you?
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/11/2012: 05:35:51
I'll answer for Warren on the order status the-fish, you can put in an order now, not sure of the time frame, Warren can answer that.
drifty - Posted - 01/11/2012: 05:46:56
Ron, you've played them both side-by-side. Since this thread is in the Shopping Advice section, it would be helpful to get your take on how the Skillet Head compares with the RS mahogany. Your comments so far could be read to imply that you feel like this Skillet Head is a better sounding banjo than the RS. ("..like no other you have ever played.") Put another way, besides the looks, why might a person want to choose one over the other? Pricing also hasn't been discussed. Do you know yet how they will compare in price? (Maybe Warren is the guy to answer this question. But I notice this model isn't up on the Yates website yet.)
I guess my last question would be, if this Skillet Head banjo in fact sounds better than the RS, would there be any possibility of incorporating the Skillet Head construction features into the RS mahogany for those who prefer the more traditional RB-3 look over the bowtie?
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 06:58:21
Let me see if I can add some helpful information without causing confusion. I am sure that Ron will also comment.
First of all the price, $4925 for the Skillet Head which is mahogany. It comes with at Redline case built in TKL’s custom shop in Virginia.
As far as pictures, I will get pictures of Robbie’s when it is done to start the webpage.
We are looking at about 12 weeks at this point to deliver. Not that there are floods of orders but that there are so many parts that have to be built and there is curing time involved.
First of all, “better” is a preference word that changes with mood and circumstances.
We started out with a target of the banjo that Crowe owns known as Banger. A 1933 very special banjo that was a little different than the rest of the banjos built in the mid 30s. I don’t know that we have ever reproduced Banger exactly yet but we sure nailed the mid 30s sound from trying. Our standard RS models along side of a good mid 30s prewar original flathead with equal set up, and you might be hard pressed to find the difference.
In searching for that Banger, we found treasures all around it as a result. We still haven’t completely nailed the late 30s sound until Skillet Head which to me goes further out. I think at this point the late 30s sound is right between Skillet Head and the mid 30s sound. If that proves to be so then we know how to back up and produce it. It will likely be in a 75 style model or something.
We want to know that if a customer says, I saw a dude playing one last night at a gig of a certain model, then I want to know that I can give that customer just what he or she expected.
As far as the Skillet Head sound built into a standard model, I do understand as I have never liked the bow-tie look until now. We just have to see how we can do it and keep the confusion down.
Let me think a few minutes and I will post again on the differences.
Warren
drifty - Posted - 01/11/2012: 07:10:25
Thanks for that info, Warren. "Let me think a few minutes and I will post again on the differences." Don't take your mind off that baby too long. ;-)
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 07:48:53
Let’s look at something; there is a banjo (will remain unnamed) that I have in my thoughts made by a manufacturer today that is a good banjo for a good price. It is designed to be even, good tone, easy to play and no matter where you play it, or how hard, it is the same. For the beginner it is right. It sounds good in front as well as behind.
In comparison to a prewar, it is bound up with mud and has little to no projection. It clashed with the frequencies of the other instruments in the band causing everyone to not hear clearly. It is mono-tone in sound so to reach for the voice it just seems to not be there. A player often finds themselves typing out notes that they know rather than allowing tones to remind them of songs that they have heard. In other words, it does not speak to you.
Prewar original flatheads are the complete opposite. These banjos seem to have magic because they become three dimensional beyond the inches that we can measure them with.
Ask yourself:
How is it possible that something around 4 inches deep can sound 12 inches?
How is it possible that something around 11 inches across can sound 16 inches or 4 feet in a mic?
How is it possible that something made mostly of wood can sound like a metal trashcan with bees flying around in it?
How can someone describe the sound of the head as having a cheep surfacy sound to it when it is so expensive?
In frequencies, how can a banjo have the highest of highs, lowest of lows, yet nothing in the middle but a big empty hole where the notes live?
Why is it when you play these notes that pure tone can roll out of an empty hole?
How can the voice change almost able to make vowel sounds depending on how you play it?
How can a 4th string sound like it has an electric field around it and as big as your finger over a mic?
Why is it that a beginner might not always be able to see the treasures at first but become drawn into it like a bug to a light never to completely return?
Shall I continue?
The fact is; it is not magic at all. We use aliens from other planets here to do it.
Listen for yourself.
yatesbanjos.com/Yates_Aliens.mp3
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 07:51:07
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 08:12:48
Now as far as better, all we are doing is choosing which dynamics we want or like to use more.
Is the big open hole deeper, wider, less of either, focused differently, louder, softer, more immediate lows, …
To me, the Slillet Head has more surface cheep. It has a bigger bottom, but not until you act on it; when you do, it is like the ground splitting open under you. It will change your picking style. The early 30s style seems to expose the bottom end a little quicker and you can hear them a little better from the back. You have to pick the Skillet Head with a little more of a Crowe hand style attack and you can feel it through the back. When you do, you will notice wigs starting to lift in the audience. It never seems to have a top out point where it doesn’t keep asking for more.
With the arch top, it sounds like a flathead but not as wide, yet it is deeper. Those do have a top out point but it is where we are not suppose to be picking anyway.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 08:14:57
lespik - Posted - 01/11/2012: 08:21:26
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Yates
yatesbanjos.com/Yates_Aliens.mp3
Ron Stewart Ron Stewart ! Sounds like me and my buddy after our last BoxCar show. Too funny.
banjo5don - Posted - 01/11/2012: 09:58:27
quote:
Originally posted by From Greylock to Bean Blossom
quote:
Originally posted by lespik
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Yates
yatesbanjos.com/Yates_Aliens.mp3
Ron Stewart Ron Stewart ! Sounds like me and my buddy after our last BoxCar show. Too funny.
I can relate also. LOL!
Jeff Markham - Posted - 01/11/2012: 12:22:50
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Yates
We started out with a target of the banjo that Crowe owns known as Banger. A 1933 very special banjo that was a little different than the rest of the banjos built in the mid 30s. I don’t know that we have ever reproduced Banger exactly yet but we sure nailed the mid 30s sound from trying. Our standard RS models along side of a good mid 30s prewar original flathead with equal set up, and you might be hard pressed to find the difference.
In searching for that Banger, we found treasures all around it as a result. We still haven’t completely nailed the late 30s sound until Skillet Head which to me goes further out. I think at this point the late 30s sound is right between Skillet Head and the mid 30s sound. If that proves to be so then we know how to back up and produce it. It will likely be in a 75 style model or something.
We want to know that if a customer says, I saw a dude playing one last night at a gig of a certain model, then I want to know that I can give that customer just what he or she expected.
I started looking at the Yates banjos precisely because Warren was going after the Banger sound. I don't know if mine sounds like Banger -- I've never had the chance to play Banger and I'm sure not J.D. -- but it meets my needs in that direction.
I've owned quite few banjos over the past 34 years. My Yates RS mahogany is the best mahogany banjo that I've ever owned. I usually keep a banjo next to me in a stand when I watch TV and grab it to play during commercials (when She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed is sitting next to me -- otherwise I'm playing over the TV sound). I don't always pay attention to which banjo is sitting in the stand. I did this the other evening and the thought occurred to me, "Dang, this is a GREAT-sounding banjo!". I looked down and it was the Yates RS.
Edited by - Jeff Markham on 01/11/2012 12:27:02
robbyboone - Posted - 01/11/2012: 12:46:00
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Stewart
Robby, I know you read my analogy of the tone of these, can I assume that's ok with you?
AGREED!
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/11/2012: 15:47:57
Well, let's see.....can I add to the confusion....probably!
Let me start by answering the question "Is the new SkilletHead better then the standard RS model?"
Answer: Some might like it better, some might like it less, and just so no one thinks I am copping out, I'll expand to that.
I mentioned different FlatHead tones, and for me, there are three distinct groups of PreWar tones, early, mid and late. Now, to my ear, Banger is the best example of early tone, and that's what the standard RS is aimed at, and to answer the next question I'll get, yes I love that tone! It's quick, hard as nails, with depth, carrying power, and plenty of reserve power.
Next is mid, which to me is kind of a little early but maybe a little sweeter, a little softer toned, and also has the power, although maybe a little less reserve.
Late, well that to me is like a great style 75 sounds, lots of depth, really sweet, able to finese it, still powerful, but in a different way.
All great FlatHeads have that little "rattle", we all love, all have depth, all have clarity, all should have a three dimensional tone to them, but they are different in little ways.
Now, to SkilletHead JR. If you took a Fat Rim early flathead, and mixed it with a late one, that's what SkilletHead JR and the real SkilletHead sound like to me.
OK, hope that makes sense.
drifty - Posted - 01/11/2012: 16:59:57
Thank you, Ron, that makes perfect sense. Speaking for myself, many banjo pickers have not had the opportunity to play enough original flatheads to be able to appreciate, much less evaluate, those subtle nuances of power, tone, touch, etc., that you talk about. But since Warren indicated the Yates Skillet Head will come in at about a $500 higher price than the RS, I suppose we are sort of comparing apples to oranges in any case.
My hat is off to you guys for not only being able to identify these sounds, but for actually reproducing them. I can't say where my RS (#0108) comes in on that early-mid-late sound analysis, but I can say it sounds fabulous and has power and tone to burn onstage in a single mic setup, which is where it matters most as far as I am concerned. If the SH has anything on that sound, it's got to be a killer.
One other question. Some of the more famous late 75s, like Sammy Shelor's and Rob McCoury's, had straight grain maple necks. Do you think "Daddy" Skillet Head's mahogany neck is part of that hybrid thing going on with the early/late flathead sound?
Edited by - drifty on 01/11/2012 17:07:25
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 17:27:22
Gluing on the fingerboard and head stock overlay.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 17:29:07
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 17:37:44
Buttons
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 17:38:22
robbyboone - Posted - 01/11/2012: 18:43:55
Wow Warren! These latest pics are just too cool! I can't quite put into words the feeling that I have knowing that under the peghead overlay on "Son Of Skillethead" is my name written in what looks like sharpie. Now that may not mean anything to some but to me that is just another personal attachment to MY banjo and maybe someday in the distant future knowing that it is there will mean something to someone else.......a history-lineage kinda thing........I can't really explain what I'm thinking other than to say I'm glad that I know it's there and have photos to prove it!
And those tuner buttons!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!
Thank You Warren,
Robby
Edited by - robbyboone on 01/11/2012 18:55:32
Gymbal31 - Posted - 01/11/2012: 18:58:15
I take lessons with Greg Cahill. He said he put a new Yates ring on his prewar 11 rim. It sounded fantastic. Is it the Skillethead ring? I've always been a Bow Tie fan (thanks to Doug Dillard on "The Andy Griffith Show") so this gives me a whole new level of banjo porn!
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/11/2012: 19:18:22
Well, let's see.....can I add to the confusion....probably!
Let me start by answering the question "Is the new SkilletHead better then the standard RS model?"
Answer: Some might like it better, some might like it less, and just so no one thinks I am copping out, I'll expand to that.
I mentioned different FlatHead tones, and for me, there are three distinct groups of PreWar tones, early, mid and late. Now, to my ear, Banger is the best example of early tone, and that's what the standard RS is aimed at, and to answer the next question I'll get, yes I love that tone! It's quick, hard as nails, with depth, carrying power, and plenty of reserve power.
Next is mid, which to me is kind of a little early but maybe a little sweeter, a little softer toned, and also has the power, although maybe a little less reserve.
Late, well that to me is like a great style 75 sounds, lots of depth, really sweet, able to finese it, still powerful, but in a different way.
All great FlatHeads have that little "rattle", we all love, all have depth, all have clarity, all should have a three dimensional tone to them, but they are different in little ways.
Now, to SkilletHead JR. If you took a Fat Rim early flathead, and mixed it with a late one, that's what SkilletHead JR and the real SkilletHead sound like to me.
OK, hope that makes sense.
Ron Stewart - Posted - 01/11/2012: 19:24:14
I'll make an answer on the price. As Warren mentioned, it comes in the USA made RedLine case, which are not cheap, and also, there is a bit more time involved in selecting rim wood, and neck wood to match Daddy SkilletHead's wood, i.e. grain structure, etc. And of course binding on the headstock, and more "little" things that make Daddy SkilletHead sound like it does, which we have to do to these as well if we want them to sound like the original.
jfb - Posted - 01/11/2012: 19:28:31
All great FlatHeads have that little "rattle", we all love
I certainly agree..love that old flathead rattle..nothing quite like it IMHO..
grich - Posted - 01/11/2012: 19:39:35
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 20:08:16
Man, where did you find that nut in the picture? He looks like he has some kind of banjo sickness or something. I guess we could have called it S**t Head rather than S*****t Head.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 20:10:41
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 20:13:11
I plan to have mine at banjothon walking around Saturday if any of you will be there.
Warren
Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 01/11/2012: 20:18:35
NO no no no no, don't ask Grich about nuts, especially prewar nuts. Noo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o.
Man I love this thread! Ron's description of slightly different prewar sounds is really interesting... I can only hope to get enough experience around the real deals to appreciate it.
Question: how would the Granadas fit in to the prewar sound system? Do they similarly go from brighter /power to sweeter / deeper along the same timeline, but with extra kind of Granada-ness thrown in? I haven't heard enough prewar Granadas to know... The gold plating is so thin, can it possible make a difference in tone that a sharp ear can hear? So many questions, but I am ready to learn.... :)
Barnet in SoCal
___________________________
--Shipping weight 9 lbs
--Up to 100% sound reduction
--Also available for Dulcimers and Autoharps
Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 01/11/2012: 20:19:47
Oh, and I really want an SK-Jr, only question is how on earth to make it happen.... yeeeeeesh!
Barnet in SoCal
___________________________
--Shipping weight 9 lbs
--Up to 100% sound reduction
--Also available for Dulcimers and Autoharps
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/11/2012: 20:38:20
To me, the Granadas have a deep bottom that is more present up front. Very sweet. I don't personally see where gold makes a difference. You can't compare a gold to a nickle because they are two different banjos. To remove the gold from a Granada just for a test I don't think is going to happen. Otherwise, how would we know? I don't know of any late 30s Granadas. As I understand it, Ron has the last one ever made and I believe it is a 1936. So I have only played mid 30s Granadas that I remember anyway.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/11/2012 20:46:01
Bribak - Posted - 01/12/2012: 06:17:54
quote:
Originally posted by Warren Yates
I plan to have mine at banjothon walking around Saturday if any of you will be there.
Warren
I hope some of you guys who will be there will put up some more sound files of Warren's Skillet Head. I love listening to those unadorned sound clips. I would rather listen to Ron's barebone Yates Clips than a full blown banjo CD. The tone really comes shining through on those solo clips. I bet I have listened to those Yates website Ron Stewart model clips hundreds of times. Simply awesome sounding TONE! TONE! TONE! I wish Ron would record a solo CD of nothing but himself and a banjo - no other instruments. I think for all of us tone freaks out here there would definitely be a market for a project like that. Those clips where he is just "doodling" tunes and backup to demonstrate the Yates RS tone are absolutely priceless! The sound clip Warren sent me of Ron playing my Yates RS is something I will always treasure. Ron - if you just sat down and recorded about 30 to 45 minutes of pure wonderful tone out of your banjo(s) - there's a bunch of us who would be all over that! Just put up the mp3s and tell me where to send my $!
Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 01/12/2012: 08:14:22
Thanks Warren, that all makes sense. And thanks for posting those incredible photos! And yes, I second the idea of posting plenty of Banjothon sound clips! And photos! And videos! Will SkilletHead Sr be at banjothon?
Barnet in SoCal
___________________________
--Shipping weight 9 lbs
--Up to 100% sound reduction
--Also available for Dulcimers and Autoharps
nittio - Posted - 01/12/2012: 08:28:53
Greg I knew if we waited long enough someone would bring up your pre war nuts !!!
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/12/2012: 20:09:41
I might have to take my video camera up there and film something. I haven't thought about it.
I second that! I would love to see a Ron banjo CD with only the banjo. Yes posted clips will work.
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/12/2012: 20:31:36
Cutting the peghead out.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/12/2012 20:32:11
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/12/2012: 20:34:34
When the board is installed, it is made as thin as possible which means lowering the ledge for the binding.
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/12/2012 20:42:22
Warren Yates - Posted - 01/12/2012: 20:44:54
Carving to the template.
Frets
Edited by - Warren Yates on 01/12/2012 20:47:40
granderman - Posted - 01/13/2012: 03:17:49
built in area 51 for skillet head nation , seems to me a little TT banjo that slithererd out of there is sounding really good as well. Maybe it is the North Carolina gene pool that is helping these sound so good or the bird pooh on the bench , or the nuke dust in the area 51 launch pad, or maybe Warren and Ron inhaled , what ever it is Yates makes a great banjo right here in the good ole USA .
Bribak - Posted - 01/13/2012: 05:08:34
Robby, how does it feel to be one of the most envied people around right now? We're all just drooling over something you're actually going to own.
wrightedward - Posted - 01/13/2012: 07:30:18
Hard to get an Old man excited ,,but i am excited...Really happy for you
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
