doug.knecht - Posted - 12/06/2011:  12:54:48

I could come up with a few reasons, but I don't know the history good enough to know really why they tuned high on their early recordings.  Some guesses are 440Hz - wasn't established as an "A" note yet.  Or maybe they liked how it sounded there.  Maybe a combination of both.  And my second question was how and why did they decide to go standard tuning?  And when?

Edited by - doug.knecht on 12/06/2011 12:56:11

Pig_Eyed_Jackson - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:01:22

It suited Lester's voice. They changed back to standard because they saw it bent the necks on the instruments.

banjoak - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:10:16

I don't think it had exactly to do with A440 not being the established "A" - more likely, in the days before everyone using a cheap electronic tuner, musicians would make a reasonable guess as to "A"; might have been set occasionally to some "A" standard, but the next time you play you just tune it to itself, and to the other musicians. And yep they sometimes would tweak tuning a bit to their voice.

Moore.music - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:11:57

Hi

I heard it was the voice thing. Even back then they would have a tuning fork or pitch pipe.

N

Steven M - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:13:27

I read that Lester felt more comfortable singing at higher tunings.

Fathand - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:26:14

Scrugg's book says to match Lester's voice,  also they used key of G# a lot to distinguish themselves from Bill Monroe who chose higher keys. Later as Lester got older they lowered to G.

Prof - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:37:00

I have also heard that Earl preferred the tone of his banjo when tuned to G#, but not so sure what the source was of that statement.

banjotef - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:45:20

I have tuned my banjo to G# before,  while practicing.    It really gives it a great tone and crispness.  Try it sometime. 

Pig_Eyed_Jackson - Posted - 12/06/2011:  13:52:42

quote:

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Originally posted by Pig_Eyed_Jackson

It suited Lester's voice. They changed back to standard because they saw it bent the necks on the instruments.

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 Maybe it doesn't matter but I heard the above from Earls mouth.

Pickin furry paws - Posted - 12/06/2011:  15:16:23

Lester liked the sound of the insruments tuned sharp, not to a perfect calibration, just sharper then standard pitch.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 12/06/2011:  15:18:50

Yept... Jackson nailed it...

merwin - Posted - 12/06/2011:  15:25:53

A full explanation is provided in chapter 10, page 79 of Earl Scruggs and The 5-String Banjo-revised and enhanced edition.
Earl said Lester preferred to sing in G# and Bb in the early days. Therefore, they tuned up 1/2 step for Lester.

banjoak - Posted - 12/06/2011:  18:15:25

quote:

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Originally posted by Moore.music

I heard it was the voice thing. Even back then they would have a tuning fork or pitch pipe.

---

I'm sure they did. Just suggesting they were not always persnickety about everyone tuning to an A440 every time. Listen to lots of recordings back then and the "A" references are pretty variable. And lots of folks, when close to the range might tweak their instrument (fiddlers especially) to what they thought sounded just a little better. A440 was not the sacrosanct the way it is today.

Heck even back in the 70s (big bulky electric tuners were available), go to a jam, or on stage, most often musicians did not often get the tuning fork, nor pitch pipe, (nor often the big tuner) out. Someone maybe tuned at home to a piano or other reference. Everyone else tuned to the person who seemed in tune. As long as it didn't seem too high nor low. Not that disputes didn't occur.

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/06/2011:  19:30:12

It sure does sound good tuned up a half step! Flatt used heavy gauge Gibson strings on his guitar, so I believe it DID pull some necks, bridges and tops out of shape! Good thing he didn't play a herrinbone in those days or it might have exploded. It's probably what wore out that nice wartime D-18 he played until the mid 50s.

Speaking of "tuning up", Jimmy Shumate cheated that beautiful "cabin lick" on the fiddle on Someday We'll Meet Again Sweetheart in 1948, which "sounds like" it's in B, but shumate tuned his fiddle way up to make that lick easier to hit, with a key of A fingering pattern.

Reportedly Monroe tuned his mandolin and the band to where his voice felt each day, back in the early days. Wrecked a bunch of fiddle necks as sometimes he'd have them tuned to open B flat. So it is told...

A big part of Brother Oswald's pearly Dobro (tm) tone was he always tuned to open A! He had a second Dobro (tm) for occasional use to tune regular open G.

I can remember in pre electronic tuner days, it was quite a trial to get in good tuning with a bunch of people. There'd always be one smart-aleck who wanted to use the tuning fork, which was usually A440, and pretty hard for a banjo to tune to, or even a guitar! That would bring everything to a halt for a good 15 minutes.

I cannot stomach seeing a clip-on electronic tuner on an instrument on stage... I'm old fashioned I guess. I remember back in the 70s seeing Ben Eldredge's huge shop-made strobscope/oscillosope that he used to tune, and I thought that was about the limit, right there. Surely being on standard couldn't be THAT important!

FatManMary - Posted - 12/06/2011:  19:56:34

Tuning up just makes everything sound so damn good. Throwin her up into G# and jammin out to the Mercury sides is just the best. Bluegrass was just meant to be high.

I wish people at jams would spend more time listening to other musicians while picking and picking then taking 15 minutes to tune. That HAS to be one fo the most obnoxious things in my opinion. I don't care of one of your strings is 5 cents sharp. I don't have perfect pitch and neither do you. Once I had some lady keep telling me I was out of tune. To prove to her I wasn't I used her tuner to show I was in tune it was her ear that couldn't tell the difference.

rant over

phischer - Posted - 12/06/2011:  21:57:32

quote:

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Originally posted by FatManMary

I wish people at jams would spend more time listening to other musicians while picking and picking then taking 15 minutes to tune. That HAS to be one fo the most obnoxious things in my opinion. I don't care of one of your strings is 5 cents sharp. I don't have perfect pitch and neither do you. Once I had some lady keep telling me I was out of tune. To prove to her I wasn't I used her tuner to show I was in tune it was her ear that couldn't tell the difference.

 

rant over

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Sorry but I lost you there...

Edited by - phischer on 12/06/2011 21:58:44

Sam Morrow - Posted - 12/06/2011:  22:23:00

I heard Ralph Stanley say they'd also tune slightly different at festivals to sound different from the other bands. Not a bad idea actually if you've ever sat through several hours of 9 Pound Hammer(s). If memory serves me right Duelling Banjos was in G# too. So that and Foggy Mtn Breakdown. Makes you wonder?



Larry Gillis recorded some great stuff in G flat and I personally recorded in standard G but tuned down to E which is the meanest sound you can have on a banjo if you can keep the f*&#ing thing in tune.

Edited by - Sam Morrow on 12/06/2011 22:24:06

phischer - Posted - 12/07/2011:  08:18:20

So what gauge strings were being used? If necks were pulling up from the added tension tension then they must not have been using light gauge strings. I would not think that light gauge strings would make a huge impact on tension.

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/07/2011:  08:46:57

Way back when I don't think there was much choice in string gauge! Biggest issue was probably finding strings that wouldn't break!

I think the guitars, fiddles and mandolins would have suffered more from string tension than the banjos. The head would soak up a lot of that added tension before the neck bent much.