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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/199848/2
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charlied - Posted - 09/04/2011: 13:19:09
de gustibus non disputandum est -- T Hunter Robertson
the man even speaks "old-time".
I've heard Hunter's music on Sugar-in-The-Gourd radio. It sounded good.
As a newcomer to this type of music, the contemporary recordings are/were more palatable than those scratchy home-made/low tech recordings that are the cornerstones of this genre. It is through the newer stuff that I came to love/appreciate that which was originally done.
thanks all,
Charlie
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/04/2011: 14:14:17
Wow, 2 grumpy old men fighting about nothing.
What a novel twist this thread has taken.
You never see that kind of thing on the Internet, right?
I mean, if you're gonna' high-jack a thread, you might as well fill it up with a personal argument that has nothing to do with the thread, eh?
Nothing like a good old pointless spat to spoil a good thread!
MarkRough - Posted - 09/04/2011: 14:19:57
Oh, no, it's totally fine. Opinions vary. No worries. Part of life.
quote:
Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
I don't have anything against Harmony banjos at all. Maybe I should have phrased that differently.
Here is a reworded version of my complaint, which I believe has relevance to the DVD:
I don't like the tone of the banjo on the DVD. Furthermore, I find it harder than normal to hear the distinct notes being played, and which string they are coming from, as the volume of the banjo is quite low (compared to the voice) and the overall tone is, to my ears, very thin and trebly. This does in my opinion have a negative effect on my personal ability to enjoy, and to learn from this DVD.
Now, maybe the Harmony is not "to blame" for my complaint. Maybe the strings are extraordinarily light, or the bridge is very low. Maybe it has to do with the frets having been pulled. Maybe it's Hunter's technique (he's very good, but his right hand is very idiosyncratic).
OR: maybe I'm just a cranky guy with a tin ear, a lifelong vendetta against Harmony banjos, or someone who wouldn't know REAL old-time music if it hit him in the head. I'll leave that to each of you to decide.
robertsart - Posted - 09/04/2011: 15:30:26
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
Wow, 2 grumpy old men fighting about nothing.
What a novel twist this thread has taken.
You never see that kind of thing on the Internet, right?
I mean, if you're gonna' high-jack a thread, you might as well fill it up with a personal argument that has nothing to do with the thread, eh?
Nothing like a good old pointless spat to spoil a good thread!
Now, Marc. These guys are just having a little fun with some good natured ribbing. Must be because they are on each other's "friends" list. I checked... Of course it took 20 minutes for oldwoodchuckb's to load. I gotta tell you my feelings were a little hurt when I discovered I'm the only on the BHO who isn't on his list.
Ouch!
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/04/2011: 20:10:24
quote:
Originally posted by robertsart
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
Wow, 2 grumpy old men fighting about nothing.
What a novel twist this thread has taken.
You never see that kind of thing on the Internet, right?
I mean, if you're gonna' high-jack a thread, you might as well fill it up with a personal argument that has nothing to do with the thread, eh?
Nothing like a good old pointless spat to spoil a good thread!
Now, Marc. These guys are just having a little fun with some good natured ribbing. ...
Is that what it looked like to you? I wonder if we've been reading the same thread.
I didn't see anything remotely good natured or fun about it.
It certainly looked like a bitter personal feud being played out before our eyes.
Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 09/04/2011 20:11:17
dbrooks - Posted - 09/04/2011: 20:55:27
I think I saw something completely different. There was lots of praise for Hunter Robinson's DVD with one exception, and that individual was treated rather harshly. I do no think the comment that found fault with the choice of a lower end banjo was a slam or personal attack. I took it as an honest comment meant to add some balance to all of the other comments about the instructional DVD. The reactions that it spawned came across more forcefully, as I read them. Much of that impression may be due to the limitations of the typed words as opposed to the spoken word where inflection, tone, facial expression can add other moderating signals. I think the moderators should have intervened more promptly to ask for a little more decorum.
Between this thread, the Gibson raid threads and the the lengthy thread on Mr. Costello, the Hangout has become less attractive to me. I usually recommend BHO because it has been so well moderated. No religion. No politics. No personal attacks. The moderators seem less willing to step in today, and I feel it's having a negative effect on this web site.
It seems some people cannot accept dissent. For me, a diversity of views adds context and depth and helps me arrive at a richer evaluation. The moderators probably want to allow for diversity as well, but the tone of the discussion needs to be monitored as well.
David
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/04/2011: 21:41:13
quote:
Originally posted by dbrooks
I think I saw something completely different. There was lots of praise for Hunter Robinson's DVD with one exception, and that individual was treated rather harshly. I do no think the comment that found fault with the choice of a lower end banjo was a slam or personal attack. I took it as an honest comment meant to add some balance to all of the other comments about the instructional DVD. The reactions that it spawned came across more forcefully, as I read them. Much of that impression may be due to the limitations of the typed words as opposed to the spoken word where inflection, tone, facial expression can add other moderating signals. I think the moderators should have intervened more promptly to ask for a little more decorum.
Between this thread, the Gibson raid threads and the the lengthy thread on Mr. Costello, the Hangout has become less attractive to me. I usually recommend BHO because it has been so well moderated. No religion. No politics. No personal attacks. The moderators seem less willing to step in today, and I feel it's having a negative effect on this web site.
It seems some people cannot accept dissent. For me, a diversity of views adds context and depth and helps me arrive at a richer evaluation. The moderators probably want to allow for diversity as well, but the tone of the discussion needs to be monitored as well.
David
I'm decrying the personal argument between OWC and SitG over what particular strain of OT music SitG plays on his streaming audio station. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the merits or lack of same of Hunter's brilliant instructional DVD and didn't belong in this thread. (I also think SitG's remarks about the quality of Hunter's banjo were equally uncalled for BS - but at least they were on topic.)
Let me state for the record that I own this video. When I ordered it, Hunter asked why - and generously suggested that surely I didn't need it. My response to him was that I thought it would be something interesting and enjoyable to watch. I stand by those remarks. It is a most interesting and enjoyable set of videos, whether one is watching to learn, or purely for pleasure.
I might add that I have only 3 banjo related websites bookmarked on my toolbar - one is this one, another is Gadaya's great site "Old Weird America" and the third is Hunters site. I have, indeed watched his instructional videos in the past - simply because they're so darn good. That makes them a pleasure to watch.
Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 09/04/2011 21:50:34
richla - Posted - 09/05/2011: 04:28:48
This one certainly took an interesting turn. I’d still like to thank OWC for bringing up the topic, I have seen Hunter Robertson’s videos on u-tube, but didn’t know a thing about him.
Reading this thread made me take a second look and I’m glad I did. I went and plunked down $9.99 to load his “Songs For The Masses” on my Ipod, and I’m glad I did. Very enjoyable. In addition to the banjo, the Man can play the guitar, too.
Check out his “tater patch” video and see a guy really go at a banjo. Wow.
Now I have new music and some new inspiration.
Again, thanks to OWC, and to Mr. Robertson, who seems to be a very classy guy.
robertsart - Posted - 09/05/2011: 05:08:42
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
quote:
Originally posted by robertsart
Now, Marc. These guys are just having a little fun with some good natured ribbing. ...
Is that what it looked like to you? I wonder if we've been reading the same thread.
I didn't see anything remotely good natured or fun about it.
It certainly looked like a bitter personal feud being played out before our eyes.
Marc- I was being sarcastic and attempting humor (apparently unsuccessfully). I didn't see anything good natured about it either. I agree with your first post about it being a pointless spat that distracted from the topic at hand. It's a shame, because as many have already pointed out, Hunter is a class act. One of my favorite BHO members.
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/05/2011: 09:29:08
Oh boy, looks like this thread has gone south! I was away for the weekend so it looks like I have some catching up to do.
erikforgod - Posted - 09/05/2011: 11:59:23
One of the great things about Mr Robertson is the fact that he prooves that you dont have to have the most fanciest or expensive banjo and sound good and play professionaly...I think this is some great stuff :)
erikforgod - Posted - 09/05/2011: 12:34:08
quote:
Originally posted by J-Walk
quote:
Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
I just bought this DVD a couple of weeks ago, so this review is timely. I think that Hunter has a lot to teach, but unfortunately -- for me at least -- this video is greatly handicapped by the poor tone of the Harmony banjo he plays.
Wow! I would have to disagree 100%. That old Harmony sounds great to my ears. I have that video, and watching it actually caused me to do some Googling about old Harmony banjos -- thinking I might be able to reproduce Hunter's tone.
I'm curious. As a point of reference, tell us a banjo that you think has a good tone.
I thought his Banjo sounded great to me also :) Hearing is relative...everyone hears instruments differently, but I think its great that Hunter is such a technically profficient and excellent player...yet he is just perfectly at home with his Harmony banjo. Nothing against some of the absolutley beautiful banjos being built out there...but having that kind of a banjo is not a "pre-requisite" for musical excellence...and Hunter has proved that :) I like my ugly ole Goodtime even more now. Anyone who would just dismiss this DVD/CD based purely upon the kind of banjo the man plays is extremely unfortunate in my opinion and totally missing the point :)
NOTE: Sorry it looks like I am repeating myself...said basically the same thing in the comment above LOL
Edited by - erikforgod on 09/05/2011 12:42:11
Don Borchelt - Posted - 09/06/2011: 14:06:01
First of all, I want to point out that Hunter took John's criticism in good spirit, and responded in a gentlemanly way. He is a class act. I haven't seen the DVD, but I love the way his banjos sounded on his CD and other stuff he has since posted. But then I have always loved Harmonies, they are a great banjo. Years ago, they were far and away the best low end banjo for a beginner, and I used to buy them up when I could find them (and afford to), so that I would have them for students who would walk in with these absolutely unplayable shiny Asian bottle cap banjos that were two or three times the going price. The Harmonies have a clear, balanced tone, are very responsive, and overall very easy to play, especially if they still have the original factory set-up, with the high, two foot bridge they used to come with. I do agree with Zepp and a few others, I always thought the necks were too narrow for larger fingers, and they were generally too quiet for boisterous ensemble playing. But I have always admired Hunter for going with his ears, and not his eyes, in his choice of banjos, and I still do.
And I got to use my four years of Jesuit High School Latin for the first time in quite awhile. Basically, it means you can't argue about taste.
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 09/06/2011 14:10:59
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/07/2011: 16:33:06
Well, looks like I've ruined my reputation here as banjo player, you know, whiskey guzzling and celluloid collar wearing. Classy and gentlemanly! With a reputation like that what's left but... politics. Sigh
Hunter
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/07/2011: 16:44:45
Everyone should check the Other Clawhammer Forum - and please don't just read the subject.
nickelcity - Posted - 09/07/2011: 19:09:04
Hunter: Regarding the Harmony in the DVD, any tips for filing down the frets? Just a lot of careful sanding?
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/08/2011: 01:13:11
Nickelcity, here's a quick and dirty write-up:
I took the neck off and then the nut (light taps on the bridge-facing side of it will usually pop it off without damaging anything) and 5th string screw. Then with a big file (something like 1 1/2" by 12". I glue gunned a chuck of wood to one side as a handle) hogged the frets off! I was a little worried about it digging into the fretboard, but working all up and down the neck, and keeping the file pretty level, once I got down to the wood it kind of glided over it (being careful of course). I kept going until most of the burrs from the fretwire were gone – they kind of mushroom over leaving little fins on either side. Then I used 2-sided tape to attach sandpaper to a spirit level, the only long flat thing I had. Not sure what grit I started with, probably 280 or 320. And worked up to 600. Then steel wool and a little lemon oil. I must have had to lower the nut some; keeping the bottom flat is a little tricky, you have to be careful not to apply more pressure to one side than the other while you're sanding it.
Hunter
erikforgod - Posted - 09/08/2011: 05:36:35
quote:
Originally posted by Hunter Robertson
Nickelcity, here's a quick and dirty write-up:
I took the neck off and then the nut (light taps on the bridge-facing side of it will usually pop it off without damaging anything) and 5th string screw. Then with a big file (something like 1 1/2" by 12". I glue gunned a chuck of wood to one side as a handle) hogged the frets off! I was a little worried about it digging into the fretboard, but working all up and down the neck, and keeping the file pretty level, once I got down to the wood it kind of glided over it (being careful of course). I kept going until most of the burrs from the fretwire were gone – they kind of mushroom over leaving little fins on either side. Then I used 2-sided tape to attach sandpaper to a spirit level, the only long flat thing I had. Not sure what grit I started with, probably 280 or 320. And worked up to 600. Then steel wool and a little lemon oil. I must have had to lower the nut some; keeping the bottom flat is a little tricky, you have to be careful not to apply more pressure to one side than the other while you're sanding it.
Hunter
on top of where you filed you glued a thin sheet of brass right? They say that it slides better than wood....formica also...Fred Cockerham did that to one of his banjos.
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/08/2011: 08:26:43
Eric, no that's a separate banjo. The one for the DVD was as above. The first one I did I went about differently:
Don Borchelt has some good information which I used when I was doing it: banjr.com/fretless.htm
I don't notice much difference in the feel between wood and metal. I think there's a difference in the sound. The wood would probably wear fairly quickly, especially if you use your nails to stop the strings.
Hunter
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/08/2011: 12:01:04
If you have any metal allergies go with formica. It is a pretty inert substance and while it isn't as sharp sounding as metal, it is sharper than wood, and won't divot.
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/08/2011: 15:08:39
quote:
Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb
If you have any metal allergies go with formica. It is a pretty inert substance and while it isn't as sharp sounding as metal, it is sharper than wood, and won't divot.
RG - Posted - 09/08/2011: 15:12:37
I'm a formica fan...2 of my formica fretless builds using vintage pots...
![]() Superbo Formica Fretless | ![]() RG orig formica fretless |
nickelcity - Posted - 09/08/2011: 17:44:40
This is great! thanks for the tips.
Hunter: btw - i'm a complete newb to banjo - and your dvd is completely inspiring. helps me listen to other music better to see hard songs broken down this way.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/08/2011: 19:47:04
RG
I like the look. Does that particular Formica pattern have a name?
RG - Posted - 09/08/2011: 21:42:46
Haha...OWC, yes it is "Labrador Granite", bought a 4' x 8' piece from a box store for $24.99 total, had a small piece chipped off of the corner and they gave it to me for 50% off...have made about a dozen banjos and still have virtually the entire sheet in the workshop...most economical fretboard material I have ever purchased...liked the black "ebony" look over some of the other patterns...
Edited by - RG on 09/08/2011 21:44:09
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/09/2011: 01:25:09
Nickelcity - Good to hear!
RG - Those look great. Are some of the recordings you've got up played on one of them?
Hunter
neillconnor - Posted - 09/09/2011: 15:22:54
I am about to pick up a semi fretless banjo I commissioned from James Bowan (griffin banjos in the uk) that is fretless up to the fifth fret. I choose to have mother of pearl instead of brass or copper and just hope I've got it right with the material. I'll post some pictures and a video when it arrives, hopefully by the end of the month
RG - Posted - 09/09/2011: 21:53:35
Hey Hunter...in advance, sorry for the thread drift!
In regards to the fretlesses (or is it fretlessi?), don't have any sound files up, need to though, only have the "Superbo" left, sold off the others...it sounds great and slides slick, different sound than brass but easier to fret without using the fingernails...I'll post something in the next day or 2 so folks can hear the sound...love that you filed down the frets, that is definitely the old time way to do it, both of those banjos sound mighty good and to get back to the topic, really like your DVD, some great tunes and very well done!
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/10/2011: 02:47:47
Neill, great idea, never occurred to me. Bet it's going to be a beautiful banjo!
RG, no problem. One thing leads to another. I like the tunes you've got up a lot and looking forward to the fretlessi. Thanks for the comments on the DVD.
Hunter
shannonhearne - Posted - 09/13/2011: 14:54:33
I bought Hunter's DVD.
I am a novice, and I have found it to be very helpful.
The production values of the DVD are good, and Hunter's teaching techniques are excellent.
Aside from the above, I enjoyed Hunter's playing, and he could not have been more supportive.
- sch
RG - Posted - 09/14/2011: 23:14:03
Hey Hunter...threw up a quick and dirty version of "Down the Road" 2 finger thumb lead style on my homepage using that formica fretless...it is funky!
RG - Posted - 09/15/2011: 11:32:30
Thanks Hunter, need to widen the slots on the bridge out a bit, my fat fingers kept banging into each other! I do like the sound though, lot of projection from a 10 1/2" pot, formica has such a different sound than brass...
maryzcox - Posted - 09/15/2011: 13:13:56
quote:
Originally posted by neillconnor
I am about to pick up a semi fretless banjo I commissioned from James Bowan (griffin banjos in the uk) that is fretless up to the fifth fret. I choose to have mother of pearl instead of brass or copper and just hope I've got it right with the material. I'll post some pictures and a video when it arrives, hopefully by the end of the month
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/16/2011: 03:08:01
RG, I'll have to keep my eyes open for some formica for my next victim. Thanks!
Hunter
RG - Posted - 09/16/2011: 09:59:13
Haha...Hunter if you need formica let me know, I still have the majority of the 4' x 8' sheet I had to buy! Luckily it was half off since it had a corner missing, if you want a couple of sections send me a PM and I'll gladly ship some over to you, the pattern I have is "Labrador Granite". BTW, I have a buddy who has a whole kitchen of the famous "White Sparkle" pattern that Kyle used for Fred's banjo, I keep telling him he should really remodel...
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/16/2011: 14:13:00
RG
You have Got to get that counter top. Think of how much you could charge for "Aged in the kitchen" fingerboard. You could also sell it as "period" Formica - directly from the era of Fred and Kyle.
The problem with formica, as I see it, is that no staining medium in the world will stick to it well enough to create a "flush fret Formica finger-board"
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/17/2011: 00:46:41
Yeah really RG, you've got to get that friend to replace it with something nice and modern... Thanks for the offer on the Labrador Granite, I think the shipping cost over to here might be more than the cost of a sheet though!
It probably would be hard to mark it for a flush fret, but how about alternate inlays of different formicas? Now that would be classy! Actually, I think Kyle did something like that with a fretted banjo, white and brown?
I tried a bunch of different things to mark my copper fingerboard for the DVD, even gun bluing, but nothing was resistant enough.
Hunter
neillconnor - Posted - 09/17/2011: 04:16:20
neillconnor - Posted - 09/17/2011: 04:47:20
Had a look at the pictures of your pearl necked banjo Mary and it looks stunning. I like the inlays in the pearl, a sort of negative effect. I wanted some engravings the fretless section of the banjo I'm having made but the maker thought it would be too gaudy as I'm having engraved inlays on the rest of the fingerboard and a carved heel. Ive called my banjo 'an coolin' which is an Anglicised version of the Irish words ' an chuilfhion ' which means the fair haired girl.
an coolin, is the title of an Irish air slightly anglicised, in that the' an ' is Irish for ' the ' and 'Coolin' is the English equivalent of the Irish word 'chuilfhionn' The Coolin means fair-haired girl and has a lovely melody. One part of the song refers to a curl of the girls hair at the base of her slender neck and I thought this apt for this banjo as griffin banjo necks are slender and graceful and the curl of hair could be seen as the meeting of the fretless section with the fretted part, the long section of mop on the 1st five frets . I also had the tune played at our wedding 15 years ago as we left the church, as my wife had long blond hair then.
I'm picking the banjo up next Wednesday. Apparently it is stunning.12 inch tuber phone pot with bracket band, 27 inch scale, Birdseye maple neck with heel carving and small carving near 5 th string peg, hand engraved armrest and tailpiece. I can't wait,,,
irishpage.com/songs/Coolin.htm
Edited by - neillconnor on 09/17/2011 04:55:34
neillconnor - Posted - 09/17/2011: 06:17:19
Here's a link to the tune an coolin, I'd love to play it on the banjo but I think it's just too slow for the banjo to handle
![]() VIDEO: The coolin (click to view) |
olbap - Posted - 09/17/2011: 10:54:22
Hi all,
Yes hunter's DVD is great.
and my pleasure is increased by one point.
did you noticed : "Hunter Robertson, forum regular, FRANCE"
Hooray for the french team : Hunter, Haiku, others and myself.
Don't worry I'm just kiddin'. Please no french bashing, 'cause we love the *american* old time music (even if the roots are coming from africa and old europe :p )
olbap - Posted - 09/17/2011: 23:27:20
Forgot Gadaya in the french crew :)
Probably the best old time blog .
maryzcox - Posted - 09/18/2011: 05:57:45
Hello Neil,
Your new banjo sounds wonderful. You'll be surprised--mother of pearl never looks gaudy--it is the mother of toilet seat that is sometimes used that is overly shiny. Also abalone, green snail, and black pearl are lovely without being gaudy too.
Best wishes,
Mary Z Cox
erikforgod - Posted - 09/18/2011: 15:56:05
quote:
Originally posted by MarkRough
Hmmmm, I liked the Harmony. I play a Harmony. It was my first banjo and I'd never part with it. I've accidentally discovered that I really enjoy the tone of "cheap" banjos (Good Times, Harmonies, Kays, etc.) to some of the more expensive, custom jobs. Some, not all, by any means, but you get the idea.
I agree whole heartedly...they may be cheap, but they still sound pretty darn good in my opinion...especially in the hands of skilled players.....like when Donald Zepp plays his wifes Goodtime...sounds awesome to my ears!
erikforgod - Posted - 09/18/2011: 16:05:54
I personally would love to hear or read about in an interview or bio how you got started Hunter...and how you ended upo in France.... ( I ended up in Argentina...I would have never imagined it 5 or 6 years ago but here I am!!
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/19/2011: 02:44:53
Edited by - Hunter Robertson on 09/19/2011 02:45:28
erikforgod - Posted - 09/19/2011: 05:37:36
Hunter - Great interviews you are a pretty cultured guy and have had the great fortune of experience of learning and drawing from several dif cultures. I assume you speak fluent French and probably German as well right?
I came to Chile first and lived there for a year studying the bible and doing a little bit of missionary work. My dream was to stay there, as I really dig Chile, but during this time I had become friends online with a beautiful Argentine girl who invited me to Argentina to be involved with a missionary project with "The Cru" an international missionary organization but based in North Carolina. I had been to Argentina already a couple of times and really liked it. I went across the border to "San Miguel de Tucuman" in northern Argentina, met my futute wife in person and we worked together for two weeks on the project and hit it off really well. When I finished the last semester, my church in the states split and I was left with the choice of returning or staying in south america. I decided to go to Argentina and rent an apartment near where my...well by this time "girlfriend" lived. We got engaged and after about a year later married. We have decided for now to stay in Argentina, and I have legal residency here and work here as well...speak fluent spanish ( no French ) My wife and I went back to the states in June and she met my family for the first time and everyone really loves my wife. I know the feeling about being far from family. My family is mostly from Kentucky ( hence the banjo attraction )..when you live in a multi-cultural international marriage..no matter where you live, one or the other has to make some big sacrifices family wise...and the travel is darn expensive!
I really like the "Lonesome John" tune that you play...some great syncopation in that one! I was checking out more of the vids on your website
Edited by - erikforgod on 09/19/2011 05:52:45
Hunter Robertson - Posted - 09/19/2011: 14:09:21
Nice story Eric. It does get pretty expensive going visiting doesn't it? I'm just glad it's not all by steam-liner anymore!
Edited by - Hunter Robertson on 09/19/2011 14:10:01
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