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Jody Hughes - Posted - 01/11/2011: 09:37:29
When did finger picks come into popular use for the banjo? Were they being used before the bluegrass craze?
I'm guessing there was some cross over between when banjo players and guitar players started using them?
Are there any pictures of early finger picks available?
Edited by - Jody Hughes on 01/11/2011 09:38:19
Prof - Posted - 01/11/2011: 10:01:18
I could swear I've read through a thread about this topic, but I'll be darned if I can find it anywhere. Maybe someone else can dig it up somewhere...
pickNgrin - Posted - 01/11/2011: 10:05:19
Interesting question. I heard that the early guys made their own out of old tin cans.
-matt
revellfa - Posted - 01/11/2011: 10:20:20
I have also heard that thimbles were used at one point.
corcoran - Posted - 01/11/2011: 10:45:41
I seem to recall that Snuffy Jenkins cited Rex Brooks as being the first to use fingerpicks with the North Carolina style of banjo, FWIW.
For a lovely pictorial history of National fingerpicks, go to: deanhoffmeyer.com/nationalpicks/
Michael
Edited by - corcoran on 01/11/2011 10:46:18
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 01/11/2011: 11:23:23
I was friends with Don Strike, who was a pro banjo player in England in the 30's. He was a DIY kind of guy and made his own thumbpick back then out of a whopping piece of brass. I think that the goal was more volume - they already had the speed.
Laurence
jhedblom - Posted - 01/11/2011: 11:56:21
AS I recall the first picks were made from discarded elephant toe nails. They would be carved to fit and then fire bent to the final fit. Wear was the real problem as they were rough on the gut strings common to the time. Pitch was difficult to attain and sustain which resulted in rhythm being emphasized more than melody. With the introduction of plastics in the fifties and their use as pick material the use of nails and horns has diminished. This change has also resulted in banjos becoming so loud that they require license in some urban environments. jack h
Emiel - Posted - 01/11/2011: 12:33:40
Sam McGee used finger picks in the 1920s for his guitar (and with banjo probably too)... Finger picks are quite old and used for guitar and banjo...
Edited by - Emiel on 01/11/2011 12:34:35
Paul R - Posted - 01/11/2011: 12:57:59
Go to deuceswild's page to find out more about "thimbles". He sells them in the classifieds here - banjohangout.org/classified/16361. (I have no connection.)
Tuneager - Posted - 01/11/2011: 13:24:36
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 01/11/2011: 13:37:26
quote:
Originally posted by Paul R
Go to deuceswild's page to find out more about "thimbles". He sells them in the classifieds here - banjohangout.org/classified/16361. (I have no connection.)
The "thimbles" that were used in the 1800s were, in fact, a kind of finger-pick,....and were not closed thimbles such as would be used for sewing.
Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 01/11/2011 13:41:07
jbell - Posted - 01/11/2011: 14:26:56
quote:
Originally posted by Tuneager
I've seen easier ways to stain mahogany.
jhedblom - Posted - 01/11/2011: 17:55:01
By the way jbell I had a Ducati 860 like the one in your photo. Jack H
DIV - Posted - 01/11/2011: 21:39:50
Yup, it was the great Snuffy Jenkins who first played banjo with finger picks. In the days he was recording on radio shows, he had a tough time being heard by the microphones amongst all the other instruments of his band. He got the idea from seeing pedal steel players and resophonic Hawaiian guitar players
Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 01/12/2011: 08:37:57
quote:
Originally posted by DIV
Yup, it was the great Snuffy Jenkins who first played banjo with finger picks. In the days he was recording on radio shows, he had a tough time being heard by the microphones amongst all the other instruments of his band. He got the idea from seeing pedal steel players and resophonic Hawaiian guitar players
Well since Snuffy Jenkins himself "cited Rex Brooks as being the first to use fingerpicks with the North Carolina style of banjo" (see Corcoran's post above), and "thimbles" were used in the 1800s (which a look at Joel Hooks' aka "deuceswild"'s) page demonstrates were clearly a form of fingerpick (see Paul R.'s post above), it seems to me that Snuffy Jenkins can't really be considered to be the person "who
first played banjo with finger picks". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say he popularized the use of finger picks among banjo players.
Jody Hughes - Posted - 01/12/2011: 08:56:24
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg
He got the idea from seeing pedal steel players and resophonic Hawaiian guitar players
Well since Snuffy Jenkins himself "cited Rex Brooks as being the first to use fingerpicks with the North Carolina style of banjo" (see Corcoran's post above), and "thimbles" were used in the 1800s (which a look at Joel Hooks' aka "deuceswild"'s) page demonstrates were clearly a form of fingerpick (see Paul R.'s post above), it seems to me that Snuffy Jenkins can't really be considered to be the person "who first played banjo with finger picks". Perhaps it would be more accurate to say he popularized the use of finger picks among banjo players.
I agree with these statements, I believe banjo players were using fingerpicks earlier than Snuffy Jenkins.
The thimbles you mention, were they used to play in a clawhammer/minstrel style or three finger style?
It would be great if anyone had pictures of the earlier fingerpicks.
pickNgrin - Posted - 01/12/2011: 09:06:34
Here is an interesting site: thejoelhooks.com/Site/Buy_Thimbles.html
Two things:
1) "In 1889 S. S. Stewart wrote, “It has frequently been said by Banjo teachers and players, that thimble playing, or stroke playing, as it is called, was fast becoming obsolete, and was dying out -passing away entirely."
So... metal thimbles were evidently being used prior to 1889.
2) They wore them upside down relative to modern picks
So... I would not call thimbles "picks" in the traditional sense. They were being used on the downstroke in clawhammer, not on the upstroke as in bluegrass.
-matt
Edited by - pickNgrin on 01/12/2011 09:13:59
pickNgrin - Posted - 01/12/2011: 09:11:59
I see that Paul R and Marc already found the joel hooks site. Good stuff!
-matt
DIV - Posted - 01/12/2011: 10:02:52
I stand corrected!!; I was just sharing what I learned from Jim Mills' prewar seminar...let's say it was Snuffy who POPULARIZED the used of 2 fingerpicks and a thumb pick....
minstrelmike - Posted - 01/12/2011: 10:19:29
I believe thimbles, actual real thimbles, were in use during the 1860s and 1870s to protect fingernails.
A real thimble can be used to pick in both directions.
People modified thimbles into finger-picks that they still called thimbles--something that fits over your finger and protects it from harm. In one of the banjo history books I read, they said Classical banjoists giving concerts in the 1880s used fingerpicks in order to be heard at the back of concert halls.
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 01/12/2011: 11:22:54
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Source: mugwumps.com/Ephemera.html
MOST of the minstrel-era 'thimbles' were used for down-stroke playing.
But the cylindrical thimble, with the angled top -- in the middle of the
right-hand photo -- while originally designed for down-stroke, DID also
work for up-picking.
Use it with the 'point' on top of the fingernail for, down-stroke. Turn it over
-- with the point towards the fleshy pad of the finger -- for up-picking.
The fancy pick at the bottom-left was designed to be used for finger-
picking, on either guitar or banjo.
There are other picks that also pre-date the National picks. But it seems
to be the Hawaiian guitar craze, in the 'teens and 'twenties, that spawned
a variety of fingerpicks. (You know... "National" -- as in "National steel
guitar"...)
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 01/12/2011 11:27:42
trapdoor2 - Posted - 01/12/2011: 11:26:02
quote:
Originally posted by minstrelmike
I believe thimbles, actual real thimbles, were in use during the 1860s and 1870s to protect fingernails.
A real thimble can be used to pick in both directions.
People modified thimbles into finger-picks that they still called thimbles--something that fits over your finger and protects it from harm. In one of the banjo history books I read, they said Classical banjoists giving concerts in the 1880s used fingerpicks in order to be heard at the back of concert halls.
I dunno...
I've never seen any citation that talks about sewing thimbles. I'd like to see a good citation of that. Converse published the first "how to" drawing of a banjo thimble in his "Greenback book" of 1865. The drawing is simply a pattern. Using it, one may make a very nice item. In fact, the Converse style thimble works quite well in both directions. Even Joel's "Stewart style" thimbles work quite well for either stroke or up-picking...no need to turn it around either. I suspect one would wear out gut strings very quickly with any sort of an "up-pick" pick. Perhaps Joel will jump in with a shot of an ad out of Stewart's Journals, I seem to recall some mention of guitar fingerpicks, etc.
People think that banjos of the 1880's and 1890's were quiet, parlor-only banjos. Certainly they are quieter than a modern resonated banjo...and yes, not as loud as a 'tonering' banjo of the 1890-1920 period. Evolution, eh? However, having studied/played a number of 1880's vintage banjos (and '70s, '60s, '50s, etc.)...I find that a good quality instrument needs nothing, they're quite loud enough. Ask my wife.
That said, everybody is different. Some folks don't have the strength to play loudly, some have soft fingernails or cannot get up the calluses required. A set of fingerpicks can be a godsend in those situations.
I've been experimenting with the bare finger techniques for the past few months (which was popular for fingerstyle in the 19th cent.). Now that I've got some calluses going, I can make her ring like a bell.
deuceswilde - Posted - 01/13/2011: 14:18:32
Yes, I have found one reference to up picking with a thimble on...
"The question is sometimes asked whether 'you can pick with a thimble on.' We answer that the thimble can be used to pick with without cutting the strings, provided it has a smooth edge on it." B&G J, April & May 1884
No mention of ever turning them around like a Hawaiian guitar pick.
Also, absolutely no reason to slice up your gut string with claws on, bare fingertips act as a rosined bow on the strings, "picks" are not an improvement with guitar style. I would also need to wear them on all four fingers as sometimes I use them all.
I do believe that the modern use of of them was in direct response for protection against the constant rubbing of fingertips across cheese slicers. Also volume, where in guitar style with telegraph wire, they are needed.
There is one patent...google.com/patents/about?id=1t...AAEBAJ&dq but it is not known by me if these were ever produced. One thing is for certain, until the modern banjo era (post wire string+plectrum) banjo tutors specified fingertips.
Even with the guitar, the rare exception noted and constantly used to justify by players, it was nylon string that brought about the use of the fingernails.
Edited by - deuceswilde on 01/13/2011 14:29:28
deuceswilde - Posted - 01/13/2011: 14:27:51
quote:
Originally posted by minstrelmike
I believe thimbles, actual real thimbles, were in use during the 1860s and 1870s to protect fingernails.
A real thimble can be used to pick in both directions.
People modified thimbles into finger-picks that they still called thimbles--something that fits over your finger and protects it from harm. In one of the banjo history books I read, they said Classical banjoists giving concerts in the 1880s used fingerpicks in order to be heard at the back of concert halls.
What book.
As to the "People modified thimbles into finger-picks that they still called thimbles," documentation is the key... I'd love to see the book you read it in.
True or not, the pioneers of the banjo agreed that it was Tom Briggs that developed the banjo thimble.
books.google.com/books?id=nvY5...e&f=false
The Old Timer - Posted - 01/13/2011: 15:33:38
Very informative thread!
Jody Hughes - Posted - 01/13/2011: 18:00:14
Thanks for all the helpful responses, hope to learn even more!
Thanks,
Jody Hughes
youtube.com/banjalien
Edited by - Jody Hughes on 01/13/2011 18:02:13
