impickin5 - Posted - 05/19/2010:  15:02:10

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Seems that a dial reading of around 10 is where Gibson and Gibson type flathead banjos sound best to me. This is after installing a new head and the head has completely finished stretching. I know this reading may vary depending on different heads and different pot components, etc, and your own personal preference as to how your banjo sounds best to you, but at what reading on the dial have you found to be the best?

Ray

stelling man - Posted - 05/19/2010:  15:04:31

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10 for my Gibson and 11 for my Stelling..

STELLING MAN

gottasmilealot - Posted - 05/19/2010:  17:12:03

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10-14

Grum - Posted - 05/19/2010:  17:26:55

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I have my Stelling Master Flower on 10. I chose this setting because the banjo had been shipped to Australia from new and the head had time to settle in and the reading was about 8-9. So I thought it ought to be a little tighter so I cranked it up to 10 all round.

It sounded fine before and after.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/19/2010:  17:41:44

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3 levels... 5/7, 7/9, above that screaming tight... Best sound for most gibsons will be in the 7/9 bracket...mostly around seven

scribefit - Posted - 05/19/2010:  17:45:51

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I have my granada up around 14, and the fitch mastersfive is at 15.

grm405 - Posted - 05/19/2010:  18:00:35

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I agree with Kenneth. 7/9 for masterclones. I do have my Juggernaut with the Silver Bell tonering at 10. I also have my plastic rimmed Rover RB20 at 4; any higher and the sound chokes off totally.

Gerry

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/19/2010:  18:25:30

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I keep all my banjos at Ab

eagleisland - Posted - 05/19/2010:  18:31:23

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No clue. I like the way my banjo sounds and try to even things up by feel every once and again.

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/19/2010:  18:35:05

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Scribefit... If your running a Granada that high keep an eye on the flange...

JohnJ - Posted - 05/19/2010:  18:40:06

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7 for the Gold Tone (works out to 89 on the Drum Dial) and 11 on the OME (94 on the Drum Dial)....... Both are Open Backs.

Actually, I have a follow-up question about the Neary - - Is the torque reading affected by the type of head? In other words, is a reading of 10 the same on a renaissance head as it is on a fiberskyn head?

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Edited by - JohnJ on 05/19/2010 18:43:37

tom elder - Posted - 05/19/2010:  19:24:56

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My arch top takes 3 or 4 lbs more than the flat head to get it to a 90-91

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/19/2010:  21:07:29

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John, I would say that the tension is the same...because of the differences in head makeup the sound is not..

idahosteel - Posted - 05/19/2010:  23:04:20

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I tried my '69 bowtie RB250 through a pretty good range and the magic happens at 13. I found it very important to take each nut off of the tension hook and put 1 drop of oil on the threads so that everything will come up even and smoothly.
Byron

Frisco Fred - Posted - 05/20/2010:  03:51:07

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Tighting the drumhead with a torque wrench can be misleading. True tension readings are measured by degree of stretch....(not practical on a drum head.)

I agree with Idahosteel. Each nut, hook and flange base must be equal in drag. Clean threads and some lube is necessary to get a "truer" reading with a torque wrench,

I freely admit that getting the right sound out of an instrument is a mystery to me but the mechanics of fastners is part of my world.

Frisco Fred

lethegoodtimesroll - Posted - 05/20/2010:  04:34:51

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10 on the Neary. 90 on the Drum Dial.

Joe Jakonczuk - Posted - 05/20/2010:  07:08:08

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10

flake - Posted - 05/20/2010:  07:33:52

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A what?





mike

xnavyguy - Posted - 05/20/2010:  09:47:36

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quote:

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Originally posted by flake

A what?





mike

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Flat

impickin5 - Posted - 05/20/2010:  16:46:18

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Thanks for the good feedback folks. Looks like most agree that 10 is about the optimum number.

Ray

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Edited by - impickin5 on 05/21/2010 12:27:15

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/21/2010:  11:07:56

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Ray be careful about the 10 advice... Since you are experienced in getting the best sounds from the banjos... test where you are at, I'll bet your running around 7 or even lower. The entire spectrum repeats itself at each of the three "plateaus" and even again between 18 and 20, but I didn't mention it, because someone is gonna try it.. Sounds like people buy the wrench and develope a case of crankitis without working up... If your gonna play a lot of melodic you may like the mid register around 9, but for most banjos it simply is not gonna be the optimum...

The Pope - Posted - 05/21/2010:  11:48:43

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Sort of concerned here. I have my KI @ 15 on my Neary and it's @ only G by the note and I'm pretty sure I haven't gone to the next "window" because when I got it, it was set at around 13. Also, the banjo has lots of bottom, almost a dark tone which I like.

impickin5 - Posted - 05/21/2010:  15:20:52

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kenneth Logsdon

Ray be careful about the 10 advice... Since you are experienced in getting the best sounds from the banjos... test where you are at, I'll bet your running around 7 or even lower. The entire spectrum repeats itself at each of the three "plateaus" and even again between 18 and 20, but I didn't mention it, because someone is gonna try it.. Sounds like people buy the wrench and develope a case of crankitis without working up... If your gonna play a lot of melodic you may like the mid register around 9, but for most banjos it simply is not gonna be the optimum...

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Kenneth, No arguement or anything, but since I've never had any study or education in music, I don't understand what you're saying concerning the "three "plateaus" and even again between 18 and 20", or registers. Maybe you could elaborate for my edification. All I know is that when putting a new head on a banjo and after setting the tension at 10 for a few times until the head completely finishes stretching and finally stabilized at 10, that's where it sounds best to me. Again, no arguement here. Thanks in advance for any clarification.

Ray

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Edited by - impickin5 on 05/21/2010 15:32:11

jessie - Posted - 05/21/2010:  15:28:11

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[if your're running a granada that high keep an eye on the flange ]
what a lot of nonsence,the flanges are made from metal not plastic .the difference between 10 and 14 is not that much .it all depends also on how much the head has stretched and settled in .bending the flange and breaking hooks is to the absolute extreme .

grm405 - Posted - 05/21/2010:  16:02:41

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Flanges on masterclones are made of die-cast zinc in almost all cases (very few are brass). They do bend and break, starting with "pull-up". Most descriptions of old Gibsons mention pull-up, it is considered normal. Very common in old flanges. Then they break. They are not very strong. The difference between 10 and 14 is 40%, actually quite a large amount of stress.

Heads break at too-high tension. Where this is varies, depending on whether on not you are having a good day and what kind of head you have. I have read ranges of 15-21 on the Neary, as posted here by the unlucky tinkerers. The "Plateau" theory comes from Bill Palmers website. Since I have never gone beyond 12, I remain safe (I think). When I have gone this high I do not like the sound. Just seems to get thinner and thinner. Don't see much point in going higher to see if Bill is right.

Gerry

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Edited by - grm405 on 05/21/2010 16:03:42

Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 05/22/2010:  05:33:07

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Not really Gerry, The Plateau theory (wording) as I use it...comes from my own work and experiments... Years ago ! In the past I used to Correspond with Bill, quite a bit but I haven't seen any of his work for years and years, maybe I should..Several other people here say exactly the same and use other terms, for instance windows is what Kyle, Scott use and is a better term I think.. Lot of the banjo knowledgeable oldtimers used the same thing in different terms, if anyone remembers the "informed indepth" topics we used to have... Common knowledge for all the banjo people, certainly nothing new or earth shattering..

For the questioners and and Neophytes, maybe if we called it "octaves" (/) maybe you could grasp the concept better.
As you put on a string and tighten it, lets say a D, it will go through D many times and around again...the whole spectrum of notes... You have to decide where, which you want to use... There fore "D" in standard tuning... yept you could be D below or above..... Same thing for the head on your banjo...as a rough illustration to give you the idea,

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Edited by - Kenneth Logsdon on 05/22/2010 05:44:34

Frisco Fred - Posted - 05/22/2010:  07:07:14

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Gerry said "most flanges are made from die cast zinc" and you used the word "masterclones"

Are the flanges on Gibson Mastertones made this way or are they sand cast bell brass, machined from billit, rolled and fused or just die-cast zinc?

The Pope - Posted - 05/22/2010:  11:11:51

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Die-cast zinc, known as "pot metal". A brass flange sounds different...

grm405 - Posted - 05/22/2010:  17:29:00

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"A brass flange sounds different..."

And is really hard to find. A recent thread about buying one seemed to find only a single current source, a special order one from Saga. Sounds like these are old stock and Japanese made. The only ones I have heard about being used recently are those offered as an option by OME. The other big objection is weight, they are significantly heavier than zinc.

Kenneth is correct, Bill uses the term "Window" instead of "Plateau" for torque settings. I looked at his website and found that he has edited most of his discussion out of it out and now credits Kyle Smith. The concept he presented 11 years ago and mentions in passing now is similar, 3 "Windows" of sound at head tensions of 7, 13 and about 17-19. I believe he went higher (23 is the number which sticks in memory) back then. Perhaps too many people complained about their head breaking.

Gerry

double E - Posted - 05/22/2010:  18:09:41

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Mine is usually around 7 or 8. Drum dial 88-90.