I could see that being the outcome for particular types of people. There is no one size fits all. And nothing that can't be overcome with desire to do so. But that trait could work in ones favor as well... depending on who they cohort with.

I’m thinking, though, that banjo players have more opportunities to jam and socialize on the way up.. not so much with classical or jazz musicians.

From what I read in the tabloids about professional musicians, they are an odd lot, given to quirks, eccentricities & flights of imagination. Many are introverts that love the love they are shown when they are on stage.
It takes a well-rounded, and well-grounded, individual to swim safely in these waters, for the perils are many & safe harbors are few.

It seems intuitive [to me] that focussing on fewer things would produce a less well-rounded individual [almost by definition??].   But I figure it's probably like I sometimes describe "normal" .... l-o-t-s of room for variation, and surely there must be limits [and don't ask me what those limits are!].

Maybe the "has to" amount of time is inversely related to innate talent?

Re. desire conquering all .... The person that came up with: "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."  must have bombed out in his/her psych and philosophy courses.

Edit: Chuck, how does a several-years-long plateau square with "on the way up?  Inquiring minds want to know!!   

Owen, plateaus are relative,,, one’s plateau is another’s achievement….

This is not to ridicule the great Glenn Gould since he really was eccentric,, but…

fb.watch/Jndfyv-4u1/?fs=e

Yes , like the old saying goes,How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, Practice,Practice .

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Owen, plateaus are relative,,, one’s plateau is another’s achievement….

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Now, ^^ wouldn't be akin to T.S. in "Statistician Blues":  "... 64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot.... " would it?  

Edit: Todd Snider

T.S. …. hmmm ,,, u mean Tadpole Swamper?

Just my opinion, a self-sustaining musician is not much different than any other self-sustaining tradesperson or professional. I never see anyone doing anything without some bit of support, as well. So as far as well-adjusted, well, I've seen many a mal-adjusted in other areas. Maybe more. How about the basement dwelling gamers?

Not to argue, but I figure somebody that’s a professional musician has had to work/practice a lot longer in seclusion than a plumber learning the ropes.

I think it takes a certain personality and priorities to devote the day's working hours to pursing art rather than a conventional career. I think this means that the average musician is less likely to seem like the "typical" person than someone working a regular day job.

That said, like anyone with hobbies outside of their job, I think pro musicians can still be well-rounded, well-adjusted people.

Maybe the next question would be, How much woodsheding would make someone less-wellrounded? Beats me?

But true enough, many of the better musicians I know are introverts.

Don't you wish everyone would consider music as art? I do.

Correlation not causation.

It takes a certain type of obsession to become a professional musician. It's not a logical or rational pursuit, when you really think about it. The type of person that has enough persistence to become a master at their craft also tends to be a bit quirky or eccentric, and it takes a lot of alone time to get that good so introverts have a better chance of actually doing it.

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Hey everybody,, do you think a person who aspires to become a professional musician has to spend so much time practicing in their formative years that they become a less well-rounded individual,, maybe even kind of quirky, introverted , or just sort of an oddball?

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I played pro for 21 years. I didn't have to spend so much time practicing, I just wanted to. Besides, I don't want to burst anybody's bubble, but talent alone is not always going to be your ticket because once you enter the music "biz" strange things happen -  like who you know, and if you look right. 

But I do wonder about guys like Jens and Bela (who actually did make it on the strength of their talent) - if they practiced 8 hours a day, is there time for anything else in their life? And was playing music still fun?

There are ambitious parents who burn and squander their kid’s childhoods.
I found the Beach Boys and Jacksons, and Marie and Donny Osmond to name a few turned out so different than kids who were climbing trees and going to camp, etc.
I was lucky and stressed by working pro before high school graduation; my mom and dad both worked in the music/entertainment business in a major market. My dad left early and I am the only musician and composer amongst my peers and kith and kin. I got to Germany via military and even got German press while working over there

It isn’t just rehearsal. I’ve seen Suzuki students performing at Saturday market in Portland, just watching the crowd go by while playing perfectly, they were bored. I was, too.

In High school, we did commit mischief with the local adult gangsters because they had lost their childhoods while we lived ours. Typing class made me play better. Pre-class rehearsals via early morning made choir seem mundane.
I remember Steve Rosenbaum playing banjo and guitar in the hallway in front of the 2nd floor elevator where the girls came out.

Nearly all of the professional musicians I play with skipped higher education and went right into playing music. (Some were trained in conservatories, but those tend to focus only on musical education).

The result is ... uneducated people who lack critical thinking skills. Some are intelligent enough not to slip into conspiracy theory, political misinformation, etc. But most are not - they're just good at their instruments, which makes them believe they're smarter than they are.

I’ve seen the Kruger’s strides at the MIM, so some of the guys practice away the joy and drive.
Tommy Emmanuel just keeps going like a roadrunner disguised as a tortoise
Joni Mitchell rotated like volleyball, she wrote, sang, then painted , then jazzed and wrote again. Enjoy the traveling

I dig. WALK OFF THE EARTH CURRENTLY ON TOUR IN USA

I’m gonna knock em down
Mamma told me knock em down
I’m gonna line em up and knock em down…..

Banjo is the perfect fiddle balancer!!

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Originally posted by Nopix

I've seen many a mal-adjusted in other areas. Maybe more. How about the basement dwelling gamers?

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For mal-adjusted, we really don't have to look much further than the sports page.

How many top athletes know their sport as well as they know their probation officer?

outside of the world of bluegrass the "professional" musicians are just different... bluegrass is mostly a tight knit community and we usually relate and co exist very well with each other..
other genres of music be it jazz ,, blues,, rock,, reggae,, alternative or even country in some cases is a a different beast all together...

those genres do not have the same sense of closeness and feel of community like bluegrass does... almost every case the mega stars of bluegrass are pretty accessible for us weekend warriors and fans.
when was the last time you heard of keith richards or tim mcgraw or derek trucks walk up and sit in on a jam session like billy strings does ?
and years and years of practice and shows is required ,,,, always heard of the 10,000 hour rule ,,may be some truth in that.

I’m a classically trained professional musician, I have spent about ten years of my young life in italian conservatory practicing every day for hours and hours Bach Brahms and co on my viola…
I think I’m quite nice guy!
But I must say that I didn’t feel very confortable in the classic music community: too much competition for me…
So I have soon played more in non classical music styles: jazz folk blues rock etc
Not really bluegrass since here in Italy there isn’t a real bluegrass scene… there are some really great bluegrass musician of course but they are a bit isolated, never saw a bluegrass jam here around….

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Originally posted by banjopaolo

I’m a classically trained professional musician, I have spent about ten years of my young life in italian conservatory practicing every day for hours and hours Bach Brahms and co on my viola…
I think I’m quite nice guy!
But I must say that I didn’t feel very confortable in the classic music community: too much competition for me…
So I have soon played more in non classical music styles: jazz folk blues rock etc
Not really bluegrass since here in Italy there isn’t a real bluegrass scene… there are some really great bluegrass musician of course but they are a bit isolated, never saw a bluegrass jam here around….

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there is a guy in Genova who is world class banjo player and builder of banjos . his name is silvio ferretti . his band travels the world playing  its called Red Wine.

One form of mal-adjustment that is prevalent in any professional creative sphere is toxic egotism. This is not a by-product of practice or necessarily related to a person’s own relative success in that creative field. It is insatiable. An illness.  I’ve worked in a creative area most of my career. I’ve witnessed publishing staff who had to navigate visiting creative toxic egos through the building by labyrinthine routes so that they didn’t meet.
This egotism manifests as a delusional belief that they are ‘special’ and the entire focus of X or Y enterprise. Their distorted world literally revolves around them. Being confronted by other creatives who receive the same attention is to these types like daylight to a vampire. Psychologically they shrivel into a ball. It’s not a ‘given’ or a universal fragility; there are professional creative individuals who seem reasonably immune to it.
I eventually figured out that it is the innate culture of approval inherent in professional creative contexts that causes this mal-adjustment. Professional creativity requires patronage, commissions, gigs i.e. constant attention and reassurance. The merest hint of loss of (or equally shared) approval and reassurance is a form of death and is the sub-conscious driving fear that mutates otherwise healthy people so horribly into vast and fragile toxic egos.

Disciplined practice in itself doesn’t distort personality - if it’s done without the need for outside approval.

But isn’t there a legitimate pursuit of excellence, or is ego attached to that also?

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Originally posted by chuckv97

But isn’t there a legitimate pursuit of excellence, or is ego attached to that also?

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I would swap the word 'healthy' for 'legitimate'. We all have an ego; it is one factor driving our initiative and effort.

Healthy implies not doing harm. An insatiable need for approval is self-harm. It means we make ourselves vulnerable by ceding our well-being to the disinterest of a third party. Our survival is indivisibly linked to their continuing approval. Madness, because in reality that third party couldn't care less.

But over-focus can harm in other ways e.g. by our neglect of those around us.

The relative question in regard to 'what is healthy' is: does my practice cause me to neglect my other responsibilities?

I would've thought that it's unlikely that any of us who isn't on (or seeking to be on) the hamster wheel of professional competition is neglecting our other responsibilities.