Hi everyone,
I play old time fiddle tunes on clawhammer banjo. In a jam or social setting, I enjoy playing one-on-one with a fiddler, and it can be amazing to play with a good guitarist.
But when I listen to recorded or live music that features both clawhammer banjo and a guitar, I feel like the banjo consistently gets buried by the guitar. And it's not limited to community square dances or shows at indie venues. I've heard this in recordings of top-notch musicians and at concerts at supposedly top-notch venues. Often times the only thing I can hear distinctly from the banjo is the 5th-string or notes up the neck. If the guitarists sits out for a tune, suddenly it's like the banjo has been resurrected, and you can truly hear the instrument.
I kind of take it personally when I experience this. It feels like the banjo player is on stage as an aesthetic prop.
I have various theories about why this is so common:
1. The banjo and guitar share a lot of "real estate." The four long string strings of the banjo basically overlap with strings 1-4 on a guitar
2. The attack of clawhammer (both nail but especially thumb) is too mellow to cut through distinctly, in contrast to what bluegrass players achieve with their fingerpicks
3. People running sound are unconsciously not making the banjo loud enough. They simply don't know how to listen for the banjo, so they assume the mush of sound created collectively by the guitar and banjo is good enough.
4. People running sound don't care about hearing the banjo
I may be playing some dances with a fiddler and guitar, and my attitude is that if I'm on stage, the audience should hear me (along with all the instruments on stage). The fiddle may be the "lead", but each instrument should be able to be picked out by the audience.
Does anyone have any advice on how I can achieve this? My current thoughts are:
1. Use my pickup. I have a Kavanjo magnetic pickup mounted in the head of my Deering Goodtime, and I've had success playing through it in both solo and group contexts. I recently played a square dance at a house where I plugged into my own portable amp, and multiple people commented how they could hear me distinctly.
I think some people might consider using a pickup as taboo and not keeping with tradition. But the truth is my Goodtime has a pretty neutral/straightforward tone as it is, and I don't think the pickup really distorts it much.
I feel like open back banjos and microphones are just ineffective (though I admittedly have not tried the technique of taping a mic to the inside of the pot).
2. Play closer to the bridge to get a "twangier" attack and cut through more.
3. Ask the guitarist to focus more on the "boom" in their "boom chuck" and/or mute/muffle the higher-pitched strings on the "chuck". Is this a common discussion between banjo players and guitarists? I worry that I might come off as a diva by making this request?
Any and all thoughts are welcome. Thanks.
Just ask the guitarist. Hopefully your guitarist is open to the idea of playing at a compatible volume level. I don’t think muting the guitar strum is great for the style of music you are playing but the strum can be quiet (I also play guitar).
Alternatively, I focus on playing single notes more if there is a guitar or two and don’t do much brushing. Single notes cut through better and add the clawhammer rhythm without competing with the guitar’s strum.
Cheers,
Michelle
Edited by - Sopris on 07/30/2026 13:15:49
Definitley competition there. Both clawhammer and guitar are carrying the rhythm. As a guitar player myself i always gauge when to back off or push my rhythm to the forefront. For old time music the rhythm player should be very steady without a bunch of rhythmic dynamics. Bluegrass rhythm has more wiggle room. But nobody wants a rhytm player who just bangs the heck out of his guitar
Edited by - stanleytone on 07/30/2026 13:45:07
So what you are looking for is separation through the sound system or the recording. The person doing the mix can separate them by making one or (not often) both brighter, by separating the effects so each has its own separate effect. Take for instance if they are running through a single reverb channel and you solo it out, all you’ll hear is a mush of both instruments. One trick I used to do was hard pan either instrument to opposite sides of the mix and then cross the effects the other way. So for instance you could have banjo hard panned left with its effect hard panned right, with the guitar hard panned right and its effect hard panned to the left. Then you have clear separation.
Does the guitarist use a pickup or play into a mic?
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycroweDoes the guitarist use a pickup or play into a mic?
When/if I play another square dance, I'm pretty sure the guitarist will be using a mic. And in all my past experiences watching old time string band, I think everybody has been using mics 99% of the time, with occasional exceptions for fiddles and one time I remember a banjo using a pick up. (But maybe people use pickups more often and I just haven't noticed. But in square dance settings I think I can confidently everybody is always using mics)
I own a Goodtime, as well as a Sierra open back with a full blown tone ring. I love my Goodtime, but with the band or at jams, it’s like a tiny toy pop gun fighting with real guns. Seriously think about getting a tone ringed banjo, and return fire. Check out Steve Martin and his Clawgrass banjo, and how it cuts through the mix. My Sierra open back has the same tone ring, and it’s what I play out with.
youtube.com/watch?v=pMJxraw6KVM
This youtube.com/watch?v=B8nROWWss_...t_radio=1 was the tune of the week last week, The Golden Ticket. Once the fiddle and guitar got going I couldn't hear the banjo much at all except for some rhythmic chops. Is it my ears or is this what you are talking about? banjered
quote:
Originally posted by bFunk3. Ask the guitarist to focus more on the "boom" in their "boom chuck" and/or mute/muffle the higher-pitched strings on the "chuck". Is this a common discussion between banjo players and guitarists? I worry that I might come off as a diva by making this request?
This is usually the source of the problem from my experience playing with other guitarists. Between voicing full open chords, plowing through the high strings instead of brushing over them, and over-strumming rhythms that don't leave much rhythmic space for the banjo, it can be easy to get buried especially on an open-back. Frankly, its not a conversation I'd ever want to have so now I own an archtop resonator that can peel the paint off my walls for those kind of scenarios.
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