Would any of you better players be willing to talk to us newer folks about how to incorporate the fifth string more when playing thumb-lead? (Sean?) On some tunes with repeating notes, like Bile Them Cabbage Down, it's not so hard, but on others, with lots of varied melody notes, it seems really difficult. At times I might as well have a four string banjo, since the only drone I use is the first string. It doesn't sound so bad....just different....but it seems a shame to have a 5 string banjo and not let that fifth string ring out. I guess you could just look for half notes and whole notes and alternate melody and drone, but I'm not sure that would be enough to give that banjo flavor. Any ideas, guys?
15 Comments |
 | chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 9:18:21 AM
TITI ... T on the melody, I on any string you choose, T on the 5th (or an inside string if you choose), I on your choice. You're going to have the option of hitting the 5th every second T stroke. If your playing involves a melody note on EVERY T stroke, you're playing 1/4 beats with each finger or thumb stroke when you should be playing 1/8 beats. Find a clawhammer (which is essentially a finger lead, 2-finger style) tab for a tune you're trying to play in T-lead style and note the timing of each stroke relative to the occurrence of the melody notes. Then duplicate that timing with your T-lead playing.
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 | elmangle says:
11/29/2011 9:30:41 AM
Well, I guess you're right. For example, for Old Joe Clark The..., I'm playing the quarter notes with the thumb and playing the drone on the "and". Do you mean that I should be playing four notes for every beat? (By the way, I've been playing a lot more index lead, just because of this problem and because it's so easy to use clawhammer tabs. In fact, I think index lead sounds better, but thumb lead is just a lot more natural for me.)
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 9:42:24 AM
Old ... T on melody note, I on 1st
Joe ... T on 5th, I on 1st
Had ... T on melody note, I on 1st
A ... T on 5th, I on 1st
etc ...
Do this at first. You can vary everything as you wish but this is a basic pattern which is analogous the ITIT of c'hammer or index lead, 2-finger. You can substitute hammers, pulls and other left hand devices for any note and you can leave things out as well. The so called "bum-ditty" of clawhammer is done with a 1/4 beat T followed by T, I as a pair of 1/8 notes.
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 9:53:35 AM
Well, I guess you're right. For example, for Old Joe Clark The..., I'm playing the quarter notes with the thumb and playing the drone on the "and". Do you mean that I should be playing four notes for every beat? (By the way, I've been playing a lot more index lead, just because of this problem and because it's so easy to use clawhammer tabs. In fact, I think index lead sounds better, but thumb lead is just a lot more natural for me.)
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 9:56:13 AM
Sorry about the duplicate post...don't know how that happend.
So on Old Joe Clark you're playing every other melody note with the thumb and every other melody note is replaced by a drone note?
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 10:19:29 AM
Yup. You can replace the 5th string T drone with hammers, pulls, inside string T notes or whatever it takes if you like or you can just leave those melody notes out and use the second T stroke in the pattern as a drone. If you sing or hum OJC you'll see that the notes you'd leave out if playing the basic pattern demand less emphasis than the T notes at the beginning of the pattern. OLD joe HAD a ......
OJC is actually a pretty "notey" song compared to many which have fewer important melody notes.
Try playing it as I suggested until it's flowing smoothly and at least close to being up to speed, then hunt around for ways to replace the second T drone stroke with a melody note. Maybe a hammer, a pull or a slide will get you a note ...
Also, to add interest and depth, you can strike strings other than the 1st and 5th with the T and I strokes that second, third and fourth in the TITI sequence. For instance, with a melody note on the 3rd string, TITI could be played on strings: 3, 2, 5, 1 or 3, 1, 2, 1 ...
Get comfy with the basics first then you'll see a whole world of other rhythmic and melodic possibilities.
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 10:24:32 AM
OJC is a tune that lends itself to index lead 2-finger because it has a pretty busy 1st string. you can get your thumb up onto the 1st string or hunt a little higher on the 2nd string for the same notes but it's always seemed easier to me to use index lead for those notes.
Lots of 2 finger pickers switch leads to play different sections of a tune.
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 10:36:32 AM
All this is good advice, Chip. I'll work on it. It should especially help when playing in double D, where the 1st string isn't always good for the drone. What I've been doing there is use the 2nd string as the drone unless the melody notes are on the first string. Again, it doesn't sound bad to me, but it leave the poor old lonesome fifth string all alone and neglected.
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 | Pluckin Mutha says:
11/29/2011 10:36:47 AM
A single Thumb melody note followed by a Thumb (on the 5th) Index (or Thumb Middle) Pinch, is another common use of the 5th string
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 10:42:44 AM
You can fret the 1st string in D/D and use it as a drone. Same thing in G tuning when you're playing in a C chord for instance. Some like the use of discordant drones ... I don't.
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 10:49:16 AM
You can fret the 1st string in D/D and use it as a drone. Same thing in G tuning when you're playing in a C chord for instance. Some like the use of discordant drones ... I don't.
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 10:49:28 AM
I don't like discordance either, but at my skill level I'm getting used to it. Last week I got a hearing aid and now my banjos sound terrible. The music in my head is much sweeter than that on my fingertips.
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| chip arnold says:
11/29/2011 10:57:30 AM
I sympathize with the hearing trouble. My right ear is all but gone and my left runs at about 1/2 speed. It's very hard to play in a group with bad hearing.
If you work on learning chord shapes and know what chord the melody is working through, you'll know what strings to fret to keep the non melody notes in sync tonally with the melody. You don't have to "play out of chord shapes" but you will know what is needed to keep things sounding good to you. Others will disagree ... personal taste.
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 10:59:04 AM
It seems that the alternating melodynote - pinch technique works well for rhythmic background. I haven't tried to use it otherwise, but will give it a shot.
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| elmangle says:
11/29/2011 11:01:19 AM
Actually I like playing out of chord shapes when I can because it makes it easy to add a brush now and again or fake it if you suddenly have to do a break.
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