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Original rim or not?

From jun3machina on 1/5/2020 8:58:35 AM

Hey there,

So i started a thread in the collector's corner. I purchased a ODE banjo on ebay with not much known by the seller. Received it yesterday and it appears neck, flange, towering, tailpiece, etc are original. The pot is proving unknown. Some on the group suggested an import copy. Others suggested it was sanded. I'm not sure what to think other than it fits rather precisely which makes me think it may be original... I found in a few threads there was a 5 ply made, then used on early banjos. Am could this possibly be one? Or am I being too hopeful.  I will link the thread below, and add pictures

6 Comments

jun3machina says:
1/5/2020 9:02:21 AM

I hope I linked the thread appropriately:
banjohangout.org/topic/359547/2/#4560507

tlong says:
1/5/2020 10:30:45 AM

Doesn't look to me like an original rim. likely a stew mac as someone suggested. The tonering may be baldwin or ode but is not fitted right. Should bear flat on top of the rim. Resonator does'nt look just right to me either .

jun3machina says:
1/5/2020 11:04:44 AM

would the tone ring be marked at all? or would I need to take it apart and snap pictures?

TLG says:
1/5/2020 1:24:22 PM

You need to compare in person the ring with a REAL Ode ring to be sure. They were a low profile ring, no markings, sometimes rough casting on the inside

stanger says:
1/5/2020 1:49:16 PM

Hi, Jun3...
The rim is not original, but it could well be an early Stew-Mac rim. Kix Stewart turned the early Ode wood rims while working at the Ode factory; he was largely instrumental in the development of Ode's wood-rimmed line.

I own an Ode with a similar rim that was turned by Kix ca. 1975. This banjo had an aluminum rim at first, and the owner sent it to Kix. He made a rim, installed a Stew-Mac cast flathead on it, and then drilled the rim to fit all the other original parts of the pot.

My banjo has the individual resonator flanges instead of the cast flange yours has.

I believe your banjo took a very hard fall that cracked the neck, broke the resonator, and most likely, separated several laminations in the original wood rim.
Your flange would have survived, as they're close to indestructible, but was stripped because some of the plating broke off in the fall.
The original tailpiece could have been broken at the back in the fall, or could have simply been replaced as a fancier unit.
The grooved tension hoop is wrong for the banjo, but seems to be working. The hoop could have been damaged in a bad fall as well.

The resonator definitely isn't right. It looks to me to be a replacement that probably came un-notched for the neck, and was notched by an amateur, because the veneer is horizontal. None of the factories ever put the wood grain in that orientation.

Kix could have made the rim, but he wasn't in the repair biz, so who knows who did the repair? It could have been the owner, or about anyone.

All in all, it looks to be mostly all-Ode, but a Frankenstein of parts that came back together by someone who didn't know a lot about the banjos. Probably an OK woodworker, as the heel cracks- there look to be 2 of them- are still holding.

If you don't have a lot of money tied up in it, I suggest you replace all the tuners with Stew-Mac 5 Stars. They are still the same tuning pegs that came on the original Odes, as Kix patented them, then his patent was purchased by Chuck when Kix went to work for him.

When Chuck sold Ode, he gave Kix's patent back to him for free. That gift allowed Kix to start Stew-Mac.

Other than that, if the banjo plays and sounds good, I wouldn't worry about the rim or anything else.
It's a mutt, but if it's a good mutt, just enjoy it for what it is. If you want to do some more finish work on the rim, that would be OK, but I don't think it's necessary.

If the resonator bugs you, Tommy George can make an accurate replacement. He's a member here.
regards,
stanger

stanger says:
1/5/2020 3:53:26 PM

Hi, Jun3...
The rim is not original, but it could well be an early Stew-Mac rim. Kix Stewart turned the early Ode wood rims while working at the Ode factory; he was largely instrumental in the development of Ode's wood-rimmed line.

I own an Ode with a similar rim that was turned by Kix ca. 1975. This banjo had an aluminum rim at first, and the owner sent it to Kix. He made a rim, installed a Stew-Mac cast flathead on it, and then drilled the rim to fit all the other original parts of the pot.

My banjo has the individual resonator flanges instead of the cast flange yours has.

I believe your banjo took a very hard fall that cracked the neck, broke the resonator, and most likely, separated several laminations in the original wood rim.
Your flange would have survived, as they're close to indestructible, but was stripped because some of the plating broke off in the fall.
The original tailpiece could have been broken at the back in the fall, or could have simply been replaced as a fancier unit.
The grooved tension hoop is wrong for the banjo, but seems to be working. The hoop could have been damaged in a bad fall as well.

The resonator definitely isn't right. It looks to me to be a replacement that probably came un-notched for the neck, and was notched by an amateur, because the veneer is horizontal. None of the factories ever put the wood grain in that orientation.

Kix could have made the rim, but he wasn't in the repair biz, so who knows who did the repair? It could have been the owner, or about anyone.

All in all, it looks to be mostly all-Ode, but a Frankenstein of parts that came back together by someone who didn't know a lot about the banjos. Probably an OK woodworker, as the heel cracks- there look to be 2 of them- are still holding.

If you don't have a lot of money tied up in it, I suggest you replace all the tuners with Stew-Mac 5 Stars. They are still the same tuning pegs that came on the original Odes, as Kix patented them, then his patent was purchased by Chuck when Kix went to work for him.

When Chuck sold Ode, he gave Kix's patent back to him for free. That gift allowed Kix to start Stew-Mac.

Other than that, if the banjo plays and sounds good, I wouldn't worry about the rim or anything else.
It's a mutt, but if it's a good mutt, just enjoy it for what it is. If you want to do some more finish work on the rim, that would be OK, but I don't think it's necessary.

If the resonator bugs you, Tommy George can make an accurate replacement. He's a member here.
regards,
stanger


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