I already have what most folks call a "mountain banjo," made in Watauga County, NC. It's a fretless banjo, and many folks would consider it to be a very crude banjo. I don't, by the way. Anyway, it's very difficult to play very far up the neck, other than slides, so I've never really thought about the presence or absence of spikes for the 5th string. I've been thinking about getting a more modern/advance fretless banjo, something along the lines of a normal banjo, only without frets. It seems to me that having a spike at where the upper fret of 7 normally would be would really make it easier to play tunes in A and D. Do folks who play fretless use spikes, since capos probably aren't much in use on a fretless. Thanks for any thoughts on this.
10 Comments |
 | Marc Nerenberg says:
1/14/2014 8:20:45 AM
I can't imagine what a spike would be for on a fretless. A spike is used to actually fret the string on the fret that it is next to. Without a fret for the spike to be fretting the string on, it would seem to me that the spike would serve no function. Furthermore, the point of having a spike is to be able to capo the fifth string by the same amount as one would capo the long strings. If one is not using a capo on the long strings, the spike seems to be redundant.
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 | BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 9:12:45 AM
Marc, thanks for you thoughts. Regarding the use of spikes with a capo, I use spikes on my regular 5-sting fretted banjos, but I don't use a capo. I simply use my left hand to play in a different key, but you can't use your left hand effectively on the 5th string, which is really just a drone string. If I'm playing in A for example, I would put the 5th string into the spike at 7, then play all the other strings in A using my left hand. I can go up and down the neck with my left hand, but the 5th string stays fixed in the correct location to be the drone string for the Key of A. Regarding the location of the spike, you are correct that you would have to move the spike upward to the normal location of the fret above where the spike would have been located on a fretted banjo, thus insuring that the spike actually acts as the fret for purposes of getting the string into the Key of A. As for the use of a capo, well I don't use one anyway, but I would think it difficult to use a capo effectively on a fretless banjo. At least this is what I'm trying to ask about. It seems to me that you have one of two choices with an unfretted banjo. You can either retune all of the strings to a new Key when you need to, or you can use a spike and then play everything else with your left hand in the appropiate Key. Otherwise, it would seem to me that you would have to avoid using the 5th string whenever you are playing in a Key that is different from the Key that the banjo is tuned to. I would rather not have to retune the entire set of strings, when all I really need to do is get the 5th string to play in the appropriate Key. As for using more spikes up the neck, I really don't think it's worth it, since 95% of all OT and BG tunes are in G, C, A, or D. For any others, I just skip using the 5th string. I don't play Scruggs style, nor do I play a pure clawhammer style. I play using a combination of OT two and three finger picking (with finger picks), thus the 5th string remains relevant to my playing style. My original question was whether anyone else saw a need for a spike, or whether I'm simply out of my mind for suggesting it. Anyway, thanks for your reponse. I appreciate it.
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| Marc Nerenberg says:
1/14/2014 9:36:17 AM
I would just tune the 5th string up a tone, and forget about the spike. I do think, though, that playing out of a tuning meant for a different key might be rather difficult on a fretless, since you would probably be called upon to make closed chord shapes, which are very hard to do on a fretless. You lose the ability to rely on open strings both as drones and as melody notes. It seems to me to be a counter-productive way of approaching the fretless - upon which the whole old time tendency to play without chords and use lots of open strings developed precisely because the instrument is so suited to that approach. To play a fretless the way you are proposing seems to me to somewhat defeat the purpose of playing fretless in the first place, and to make things rather difficult for yourself with no apparent purpose.
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| BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 9:44:08 AM
Marc, thanks again for the help. I guess I had not thought about just tuning the 5th string up to A/D, which shouldn't compromise the string, particularly using nylon or Nylgut. Your other comments are entirely true. I have wondered whether it makes sense for me to get a fretless banjo if I'm going to play using my current style. On the other hand, I have become very adept at playing in any Key up and down the neck without using a capo, and without any real problem. Slides can be a problem, though, and slides are one of the main reasons for a fretless banjo, so I most certainly take your point. Thanks again.
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 | Strumelia says:
1/14/2014 10:35:31 AM
I second all that Marc is saying.
Bluegrass players especially tend to play all up and down the neck from one tuning, by using closed chords. Using a fretless mountain banjo for that is, as Marc says, kinda defeating the whole idea. Fretless banjos are great for embracing your open tunings/open drones/slides...that's where they really shine.
Leave the 5th string at 'g' for G and C, tune it up to 'a' for playing in A and D. Simple. That'll get you through most common situations. If you haven't already, explore the 'modal' tunes of sawmill tuning- a whole WORLD of beautiful primal compelling sounds. Look at videos on youtube with keywords "fretless banjo" +modal or sawmill. Look at how others are playing their mountain banjos. You will see how people are best utilizing the inherent characteristics of the fretless banjo. The mountain banjo has a somewhat intimate understated feel to it.
Enjoy your little mountain banjer- it's very special!
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| BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 10:55:32 AM
Thanks again for the information. I guess I just don't know a whole lot about true mountain music and/or fretless banjo playing. I shall strive to learn, but us Medicare folks aren't the best at learning new ways, but I shall try. Thanks again.
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| BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 11:10:46 AM
Now, let me ask what might be a stupid question. I usually tune my banjo in G, which means gDGBD. If I want to go into A for example, would I just tune all the strings up one full note? For C, would I just tune the 4th string D down to C? For D, would I just tune the B down to A, the G down to F#, and g up to A or down to F#? Is this what you guys are suggesting. Then I play the songs in each key via open tuning, picking the melody out, and using slides as appropriate or when the just sound nice? Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
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| Marc Nerenberg says:
1/14/2014 11:44:41 AM
The most common tunings are:
G: (gDGBD);
Double C: (gCGCD)
A: (aEAC#E)
Double D: (aDADE)
G modal: (gDGCD)
A modal: (aEADE)
As you may notice, the A and D tunings, are just the G and C tunings raised by a tone. Also the Double C & D tuinings are neither major nor minor, and are good for playing either, and for playing in vrious other modes as well.
There are, however, literally hundreds of different banjo tunings, each of which has its own character (or 'atmosphere') that it imparts to the music played out of it.
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| BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 12:27:31 PM
Marc, thanks for taking the time to pass along this information. I can see that I have a lot to learn, but that it might not be as hard to learn as I thought. Playing it all well is another thing, but what will be will be. Thanks again.
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| BlowingRockNC says:
1/14/2014 12:46:56 PM
Marc, I just looked up your Bio. We have something in common: I too am a recovering attorney, as in retired and rejoined the human race. Also, I see you live in PQ. Do you by chance know Carl Arcand, who revives old banjos on the side? I have two of his creations, and they are great to play. Bill.
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