I don't play banjo yet. I've played upright acoustic guitar for 25+ years, lap steel guitar for 3 (almost exclusively lately) and picked up and set down a few other stringed instruments along the way. My favorite is the Weissenborn. What I love about my Weissenborn is that I can get that Eastern/African sound sliding through all the microtones but at the same time, it can sound very Western. I hear the same thing on a fretless banjo but in a totally different sound.
I was very close to buying a fretless, but the sales guy in my local banjo store advised against it. He said even seasoned banjo players come in and are humbled by a fretless. And that it's useless beyond the 5th fret. But I'm not particularly interested in the sound of a fretted banjo. I'm worried if I buy a fretted it'll just sit around and I'll never learn to play it because I don't love the sound of it like I do a fretless.
Did any of you start banjo with a fretless? Is this sales guy (he's a quite accomplished banjo player in a store that claims to sell one or more banjos every day) exaggerating? I'm not afraid of a challenge, that's the best part about learning a new instrument. I am however afraid of wasting time and money on an insurmountable challenge.
14 Comments |
 | grumpsie says:
10/24/2012 11:09:20 AM
The guy in the store is wrong, to put it simply, and I don't know what he's doing in sales. I've heard similar things said before, and was a little anxious when I began, but I gigged with my fretless after a month or so.
The difficulty level, as with any instrument, is inversely related to your own interest level. If you enjoy playing the weissenborn you're already playing fretless. If you end up enjoying playing fretless, you'll probably end up learning despite yourself.
He's even wrong that it's "useless beyond the 5th fret". I'm not a seasoned fretless player by any means, still a beginner, but I use 7th and 9th for the first string. I had about 3.5 years of banjo under my belt when I first tried fretless.
I would advise being a little tolerant of the new notes you will no doubt invent during the first few months.
Seriously, with your experience in music, I can't imagine it will be terribly challenging. The difficulty for you most likely will be much greater for the right hand than for the left, as no matter what guitar styles you play and what banjo style you want to play, you will need to pick up new stuff for the right hand.
If you want to get a cheaper instrument to begin with while you figure out if you like it, try a mountain banjo from here: carryinon.com - that's where my fretless is from and I love it.
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 | Marc Nerenberg says:
10/24/2012 12:58:50 PM
I didn't start out on a fretless, so I can't speak from direct experience, but I think that salesperson is just projecting his own experience. Would you start violin on a fretted instrument? Of course not. Lots of people learn directly on all kinds of fretless instruments. The challenge is clearly NOT insurmountable.
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fieldsoup says:
10/24/2012 1:59:18 PM
I started on a fretted banjo before trying the fretless. The transition was fairly easy however for me there were some limitations. Namely, I play in a small group where sometimes I play chords. The fretless for me is more difficult to play chords. I do play clawhammer style on several songs and it sounds much better on the fretless. If clawhammer is what you are going after then I agree with the other post, with your experience you shouldn't have any problem.
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BlairFraser says:
10/24/2012 3:30:54 PM
This is kind of what I was hoping to hear. In fairness to the banjo tech he probably watches lots of talented people come in and pick it up and not get a pleasing sound out of it after many minutes of trying. Story probably changes if you could watch them for many weeks of trying.
I'm certainly not planning to gig in a month, but if a year of 30-60 mins most days could get me there, I could make that investment. And I'm not looking to become a virtuoso... It just has a sound I think would be fun to have access to. I think I'm going to start shopping more seriously. Is the Deering Goodtime a decent first instrument? That mountain one above is a pretty good price too.
Fieldsoup, I'd be looking to learn clawhammer. I think clawhammer really sounds like something you can't get on another instrument, certainly not guitar. How versatile is it as a solo instrument? I'd imagine it's limited in different ways than a banjo, but are you often in situations where the fretless just isn't the right instrument?
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| grumpsie says:
10/24/2012 4:25:15 PM
Well, to qualify my bragging somewhat, I only played two tunes on the fretless for the gig. But still. ;)
I play both fingerstyles (2 and 3 finger) and clawhammer on the mountain banjo. I think both sound great. I wouldn't want to try playing scruggs style, but some of the dock boggs style stuff comes out ok fretless.
I actually think the fretless does best solo or in a duo situation (a fiddler is nice to have around of course). In a group, you'd be more likely to want access to lots of good backup stuff, which is harder to do on the fretless.
Here's a video of a player I like showing the limitless potential of fretless banjer as a solo instrument:
youtube.com/watch?v=bwiiD5K7y00
Further to this, there's a wealth of stuff by Tommy Jarrell, Kyle Creed and a bunch of the other big names from days gone by. Marc who commented in this thread is a dangerously hot picker too, check his stuff out.
Once you get the right hand down, you won't be missing frets at all.
I agree chords are a bitch, especially if they involve fretting more than two strings, but it CAN be done, and I think that's the only thing apart from up-the-neck stuff that doesn't work as well without frets. Hammer-ons are a little less loud, but that may just be my technique and setup.
However, since you keep changing the tuning up anyway once you get into it, chords aren't as important as for guitar. And you can make enough noise happen that you won't miss them anyway.
I can vouch for the deering goodtime. It's a wonderful instrument for the price. I would recommend you get one without a tonering for clawhammer, the tonering is very loud and it's hard to get the sound I think you're after. I'd also recommend you go for a renaissance head and a moon bridge.
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| grumpsie says:
10/24/2012 4:42:30 PM
OK, here's another couple of videos that show some of the possibilities:
youtube.com/watch?v=uqaKTIrea9o
youtube.com/watch?v=jMfuK98lT2s
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| grumpsie says:
10/24/2012 4:43:46 PM
sorry I meant to post this one by rob stenson (but they're both good):
youtube.com/watch?v=KnY9auT7ly0
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BlairFraser says:
10/24/2012 5:13:10 PM
When I got into the Weissenborn it was Harry Manx I kept listening to and wanting that sound... For a whole year before I caved and bought my Weiss.
I found that Rob Stenson video a few months back and that's the one I keep coming back to. That's the sound I want. I can hardly figure what he's doing with that right hand, but I want that sound.
I'm checking out the other guys too.
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| grumpsie says:
10/24/2012 5:15:25 PM
He's playing an Enoch Tradesman, another banjo with no tone ring that is (I hear) very good value for money.
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 | JanetB says:
10/24/2012 5:22:13 PM
Go for it! You like clawhammer and sound like you have a strong desire. There's a wealth of material and support here to start you on a satisfying journey.
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 | rteale says:
12/6/2012 4:22:44 PM
Let me say, its a hell of lot easier than playing a violin. Really fretless isnt hard. It is a bit limiting if you do want to play fancy stuff up the neck, but that sort of stuff doesnt do it for me anyway (and you could always get a semi-fretless).
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 | Annon says:
2/13/2013 1:04:47 AM
If the fretless banjo was very difficult to play, it would not have been so popular in so educationally destitute a segment of US culture.
I've been playing my fretless for almost exactly 1.5 days, and I'm having a blast.
My home made salad bowl banjo cost me no more than 30 dollars with all new parts and wood, and I wouldn't sell it for $200.
remember; you can always make a fretted board from fretless, but making a fretless from a fretted board looks like hell.
just have fun and keep playing....don't let fretless give you constipation
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| Annon says:
2/13/2013 1:06:30 AM
If the fretless banjo was very difficult to play, it would not have been so popular in so educationally destitute a segment of US culture.
I've been playing my fretless for almost exactly 1.5 days, and I'm having a blast.
My home made salad bowl banjo cost me no more than 30 dollars with all new parts and wood, and I wouldn't sell it for $200.
remember; you can always make a fretted board from fretless, but making a fretless from a fretted board looks like hell.
just have fun and keep playing....don't let fretless give you constipation
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 | chas5131 says:
9/18/2015 9:42:07 AM
Was looking for a scooped banjo when I saw a fretless Ome Jubilee.
Ordered it. Nothing impulsive about me.
Played the cello for a while and still do. Think that will help with the fretless.
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