I've been thinking lately about how experienced players often "call out" folks on the forums for statements they make that are either misleading, fantastical or just playing nonsensical. My nature is to be real and logical and I tend to be one of those experiment players who "calls out" posters at times. My goal is to offer some real world experience that might be countered to the statements made that I am calling out.
Some examples are someone demeaning how much effort it takes to be good at playing the banjo, in any style. A recent comment about playing blues, for example, comes to mind. The poster said playing blues is, and I quote "like shooting fish in a barrel". Of course I called that statement as hogwash. To accept that as truth is to demean great blues players and the awareness of how playing blues well is not easy at all.
i never intend to make a calling out personal, nor ugly at all. I simply point out, sometimes with a bit of sarcastic whit, some reality about the statements. But I'm wondering if it is even with the effort anymore to do this. It seems the prevailing sprit of the forums now is to be nice to the point that you cannot say anything at all that disagrees with posts. To do so means you are "mean", "egotistical", or just "negative". It's a big Reno the forums are devoid of other professional players, for the most part.
I also believe In calling out folks for rule breaking posts and routinely report them. This of course won't make me any friends but I care more about keeping folks honest here than allowing trolling. If you break rules, you pay the price and I fully expect the hammer to fall on me also if I break a rule here.
How do you folks feel about this? Maybe it's not worth the effort to "call out" these types of postings. Perhaps it serves no useful purpose on today's forums, as they don't want to hear and opposing viewpoint. I'm always willing to accept the reality of things. maybe I'm just getting burned out trying to fight the tide of apathy and taking the "easy" way out.
Bill H Says:
Sunday, January 17, 2016 @1:38:03 PM
John, Most folks I have met on the hangout are friendly, helpful, and kind spirited. Having a supportive and respectful environment to share our opinions and experience and our passion for music helps us to learn and grow, even when our opinions vary. Sadly, there are the few who don't get that. Fortunately, on the rare occassions when I encounter bullies, I have the option to leave the room.
Diversity is both a challenge and a strength in any community. Your willingness to generously share your knowledge and experience through your posts and videos has been helpful to me in my effort to grow as a banjo player.
Sunday, January 17, 2016 @2:16:20 PM
Hi, John. I do see value in keeping posts 'real', which can be done in a respectful way without being mean, personal or ugly. The differing opinions provide me with different insight into topics and I do learn from them.
There are a number of BHO members that I respect and that's where I focus my efforts. I very much appreciate all that you do for the BHO and you have also helped me grow as a banjo player. Thank you.
Dan Mountjoy Says:
Sunday, January 17, 2016 @5:59:10 PM
John, I think it's very important for folks such as yourself to point things out from experience. I don't always chime in on those threads where there seems to be some bone of contention, but I like to have some choice about who's advice to follow...and I've been around here long enough to tell. Without you guys "who really know what they're talking about," my fear is that new folks would just blindly follow input/advice from others who just see things in one way (which may not be correct). And, by the way, I also report folks to the mods from time to time.
Jethro Aberdeen Says:
Sunday, January 17, 2016 @8:06:53 PM
I agree with you John, better to speak truthfully with respect as has been said, than sit by and let some be confused in their search for answers. I believe you are one trustworthy BHO member who folks realize your wisdom and understand your intentions are always for the benefit of others. Please feel free to continue to help the forum, I for one always appreciate your input.
Sunday, January 17, 2016 @8:44:21 PM
Thanks for your input guys and encouragement. I surely never want to offend anyone but my nature is to be blunt and fair. I know there are times I can be too blunt and show some sarcastic wit, trying to instill some levity. It may not always translate. My way of looking at giving advice is you should practice what you preach and your playing should reflect it.
Monday, January 18, 2016 @5:38:18 AM
Yeah I strongly agree with what those four above are saying. I'll add my own thought also which can be summed up in three words. "Consider The Source" I do a lot reading here, much more than posting; and over the years certain members stand out to me, either be it in a good way or not such a good way. So when I read a post on a hot topic, I'll ignore most of what is being hashed and rehashed and scroll down looking for a member that I know to have valuable, honest, knowledgeable, no nonsense advice. Then I take that information and put it in my bank. One of those few I always look for is you Mr. John, don't go anywhere or change your approach, too much, or too soon, I ask. :)
Thursday, January 21, 2016 @2:55:44 AM
John I think there is little doubt that you are among the most helpful and engaged folk here ob BHO. You're very passionate about that you do and that is a good thing. The issue really is that forums like this give the appearance that anyone who has an opinion on anything has equal validity, which of course, is not true in real life. All opinions are not equal, and your opinion carries great weight. The opinion of others on certain things, not so much so.
I'm just going to suggest maybe trying to find a way to accomplish this goal of calling out, without derailing so many threads? I've seen many good solid legitimate real threads from newbies get derailed over and over because of these personal disagreements over information. I feel that these derailments do as great a dis-service to newbies as does the bad information (folks who don't know you from anyone until they do) and it really lowers the bar of discourse IMHO. It's no different really than kids witnessing adults bicker. What lessons are learned from that? Take the disagreements outside... not in view of the newbies...?
Is that even possible? I'm not exactly sure how that could be accomplished, but I do know ignoring is a very effective tool and one which you use well. Maybe instead of a one-person crusade against idiocy here, solicit the help of the moderators and the site owner to help reign this in? Maybe this fight is bigger than you?
Anyway, it's a good cause, one shared by many I believe (you are not alone in these sentiments) and I know your spirit is in the right place. Of that I have no doubt. (thumbs-up thingy here).
Thursday, January 21, 2016 @3:40:38 PM
I agree about ignoring and I do for the most part, or laugh about it. Just today I reported the same too,l for having two more fake accounts, I will continue to call out trolls with fake accounts, if you can't use your real name while attacking anyone or breaking rules, you are a coward.
Sultans of Claw Says:
Friday, January 22, 2016 @4:48:20 PM
Best of luck to you, John.
From Greylock to Bean Blossom Says:
Friday, January 22, 2016 @8:45:32 PM
I appreciate honesty and truth and keeping the forums accurate. So many of us are here to learn as well as enjoy and if we are being fed hogwash then it is good to know it. Also having guys with your level of expertise is huge here or it would be the blind leading the blind. I would imagine if too much poppycock had to be put up with all good players would avoid the hassle. Like you said, many have. It is probably, to some extent a never ending job - keeping this place clean.
Monday, January 25, 2016 @1:28:13 AM
oh my, i know how you feel John - In my own business area, I'm just about giving up and kinda have - bothering to post a polite response to someone who's posting hogwash - i mean what's the point? There's so much arrogant ignorance all over the web these days - i just feel like bashing my head on my desk sometimes - actually, I do that sometimes....
But ah ha - now I can just go and pick up my banjo and get some zen going and forget about it!!
As a beginner, I relish your comments and those of the other super experienced tutors and players here - many times, I can tell if someone's posting hogwash .... or think I do... I do have some musical experience in my past... and always question things.... but if there's more hogwash posted than truth then everyone will start to believe the former coz they can't see the latter....
So, for me, please do keep on posting....
Mooochly appreciated, Thanks. Anna
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'The Leaning Tower ...' 34 min