godsey - Posted - 04/10/2007:  15:54:50

howdy.

after a year of mostly solitary clawhammer learning, i need and want to start playing with other people. but i got nervous and self-conscious just typing the words "playing with other people."

i can't tune by ear or pick out chords by watching or listening to other people. i have about three tunes memorized, and i can barely get through those without big mistakes. i can follow tab pretty well, but i can't just up and play.

i need the competence and confidence that only comes from community. i'm ready to transcend pride and embarrassment and just say "yes" next time someone suggests getting together for beer and music.

but, uh, what happens after that?

a lame, helpless question, i know, but i'm serious. what happens when i go hang out with my friend who's a good guitar player and a patient person, but around whom i don't want to just run through the same clawhammer from scratch tabs i've been clanking through about 450 times a day?

what happens when they say, "what should we play?" then I say, "uh...well...uh..."?

chip arnold - Posted - 04/10/2007:  16:41:28

Quote: "a lame, helpless question, i know, but i'm serious. what happens when i go hang out with my friend who's a good guitar player and a patient person, but around whom i don't want to just run through the same clawhammer from scratch tabs i've been clanking through about 450 times a day?"
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Not lame at all. Everyone who plays with others has faced the same experience between playing alone and playing with others.
If the guitar player is your friend, why not simply tell him/her that you'd like them to help you in making the transition?
Another idea is to learn to play along with recordings. When you can do that comfortably, you'll be able to play in a jam. Is there a cd that goes with Dan's book?
Can't pick out chords by watching? It's easy to learn to recognize a few common guitar chords. In Old Time music the guitar player should be doing pretty basic stuff and you'll be able to easily see the chords. Get your guitar friend to help with this.
When first playing with others you can simplify what you're doing and play quietly in the background. Add more melody and pretty banjo stuff as you get smooth and comfortable.
Go to an Old Time festival and sit at the outside edge of a big jam. You won't feel like you're standing out and the momentum of the jam will pull you right along. I call this the NASCAR technique. Just get right on their bumper and DRAFT!
Most of all, don't be so timid that you rob yourself of the very thing you're after. Some pickers have forgotten but we all went through this.


Play with a plan
Chip

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/10/2007:  16:47:02

I think that if you can find people to play with, all will be well. That may be the greatest challenge.

Bill

Roy Smith - Posted - 04/10/2007:  16:48:46

IMO, you need to come out of the closet, musically speaking. Check out the Minnesota Bluegrass and Old Time Music Association jams. I know the group is mostly about bluegrass, but that "old time" in the name suggests there are some other similarly afflicted musicians in your area. Get out to some events and meet them, and find out where the old time music is being played. If there's a slow jam available, start with that. They're for beginners, and you don't need to apologize for anything. Record the tunes people are playing, then learn some of the ones you like.

Bottom line: The only way to learn to just up and play with others is by doing it. It can't be simulated alone. Trust me, it's well worth the effort.

Roy

Kole - Posted - 04/10/2007:  16:53:38

I think Chip has pretty much said it all. Very good advice. I think we were all in this position at some point in our music endeavor. I dont know how long you've been playing, but, give yourself some time to feel the music and groove into it. Just do the best you can and your friends will understand. Each time you get together and jam you'll get better and better. Practice as much as you can. But only 3-5 songs until you know them well. Then move on to more tunes. Like Chip said: Find the chords and play them. Pick em out. Figure out where they fit into each tune and it will all come together. Start small and work your way up.

Flesher Tarantella
Cedar Mountain Banjos

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/10/2007:  16:59:21

Ask your guitarist friend for the chords to some of his songs. Write them down and play bum did-dy, or for triple time bum did-dy did-dy, and just play alone or when you are more used to it sing along with him.
You can also find a bunch of folk songs chorded out on the web - The How And Tao book is free and you could print out the songs. Ther eare many other sources and there are books with banjo chords in main tunings that you could use to find them or I'm sure someoen can direct you to a website with the main chords of the four main banjo keys - G, C, A, and D. Essentially you only have to learn the Double C and G tuning chords as the D and A tunes are simply a matter of capoing. Usually folk guitarists will stay in these keys plus E most of the time.
If you can find an old time jam there is a trick you can use if you can learn to read guitar chords. Most tunes will have the same 2 or 3 chords for the same key. Learn how to read the positions (your guitarist friend is your key here) for chords in G and C and you will have most of your problems solved - you just need to change chord when the guitarist does.


Just chording along will give you experience in keeping time - which is the most essential part of playing with others - and when you get right down to it, is the most essential part of playing at all.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

haiku - Posted - 04/10/2007:  17:31:20

quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

I'm sure someoen can direct you to a website with the main chords of the four main banjo keys - G, C, A, and D. Essentially you only have to learn the Double C and G tuning chords as the D and A tunes are simply a matter of capoing.

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RCCOOK - Posted - 04/10/2007:  17:31:34

Just Bite in and hang on..............Rod

Even the blind squirrel finds an occasional nut, I found a banjo!!!

godsey - Posted - 04/10/2007:  18:35:28

you guys are providing excellent and free therapy. thanks.

it's a weird form of anxiety to be hesitant about the thing that will cure the hesitancy.

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 04/10/2007:  23:42:04

godsey, don't feel intimidated, just show up at a jam, let them know you're a little newre than some of them might be, and ask if someone can call out chords for you. Most folks are real good about helping others. That's why we're not at home with a small number of close jam bud's.I've taken to traveling with a mt dulcimer on vacations. It's small, and quiet enough for hotel room playing. And if you find a jam, you have a toy to join in with. I found such a jam at O'Hurley's General Store in Sheppardstown, W Va. a few years back. What a friendly bunch o' folks.Now I look on the 'net for jam info before I go on vacation. There's lots of clubs willing to take in a stray pup.



"As I see it, every newborn should be issued a banjo." .....Linus

banjoghost - Posted - 04/11/2007:  13:10:01

practice common chord changes, gcd, etc. don't worry about songs at first. go to whatever local jam thing you have where you live. hang out, get to know people and WATCH THEM PLAY. i may have been lucky but the happy hour i started out in is full of really nice folks of all levels of ability. don't worry about getting on stage for a while either. often the most fun is when the designated show part is over and people go over to somebody's house or something and trade songs. the thing i go to even has one night a month called duets and trios. people put their names in a hat, two or three names are pulled at a time until everybody has a partner and then you get five minutes to work up a tune. sometimes the results are amazing. even when they're not amazing, they're fun and you learn way more than you learn from reading tab. also try playing along with cds by ear. lots of banjo cds are nice enough to give you the tunings in the liner notes. i know a lot of people here like tab, but i think in many ways that tab is a trap. practice practice practice then practice some more...

Tikron - Posted - 04/11/2007:  14:13:30

I have only played (CH banjo) a few times with a small group. Usually I find a tune that I like and try to find the tuning on my banjo - then try to play along at the tempo of the song until I start to get it. It helps if you play a song that you know the chords to so you can alternate between melody playing and back-up.

Ron

Edited by - Tikron on 04/11/2007 22:00:18

Crump - Posted - 04/11/2007:  15:39:19

I heartily second Chip's suggestion of playing along with recordings. There have been very useful threads on the Hangout discussing how to get in tune with the recording and play along - you can research those through the archives I believe. An electronic tuner is helpful to get in "standard" pitch. I've got one that clips to my peg head and reads vibrations so doesn't matter if the room is noisy. Playing to recordings is a very non-invasive way to get used to "playing with others".


Jim Crumpley

MountainBanjo - Posted - 04/11/2007:  18:55:39

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoghost

the thing i go to even has one night a month called duets and trios. people put their names in a hat, two or three names are pulled at a time until everybody has a partner and then you get five minutes to work up a tune.

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bnjomn - Posted - 04/11/2007:  19:58:20

Godsey,
There's a lot of good information here. Playing along with recordings is a great way to learn, but the speed can be intimidating. Software like the Amazing Slowdowner or Best Practice will allow you to slow the tune down without changing the pitch to a point where you can play along comfortably. Over time you can increase the speed until you're at the recorded speed.

Cheers,

Len



"A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well."

G. K. Chesterton

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/11/2007:  21:54:11

THe Slowdowner works really well. Remember however not to slow down things for too long - unless you have something like the early Hollow Rock band which played everything at breakneck speed. It doesn't take much to get a pretty rational pace going. I've been fooled more than once when I thought somethign was going at normal speed and then teh voices come in with that slooooooow drawl and I realise my wife is listening to one of her slowdown cds to catch the fiddler's bowing.
Let Me Faaaaaallllll
Let Me Faaaaaalllll
Let Me Faalll Littttle Girlll
Let Me Faaaall


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

banjoghost - Posted - 04/11/2007:  22:09:04

quote:Originally posted by banjoghost

the thing i go to even has one night a month called duets and trios. people put their names in a hat, two or three names are pulled at a time until everybody has a partner and then you get five minutes to work up a tune.



Are you trying to scare the living crap out of him?



no way, it's a load of fun, i swear. you'd be surprised at some of the things that come from this. adrenelyn(however it's spelled) is a good teacher too.
oh yeah, and play play play and play some more...if us'ns can do it, you'ns can too...

MountainBanjo - Posted - 04/12/2007:  08:42:16

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoghost



no way, it's a load of fun, i swear. you'd be surprised at some of the things that come from this. adrenelyn(however it's spelled) is a good teacher too.
oh yeah, and play play play and play some more...if us'ns can do it, you'ns can too...

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