delle - Posted - 03/16/2007:  07:20:24

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Hi,

I recently found the music of Guy Davis and I need some advice about clawhammer blues. Can somebody recommend some material about clawhammer blues, tab etc.
I know the howandtao stuff and the old threads.

Thank You
r/Detlef

Richard - Posted - 03/16/2007:  08:32:25

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I reall ylike the sound of clawhammer blues -
not sure about tabs, but try your own stuff - getting the 'blue notes' isn't too hard in G tuning and sounds great. ( try hammering on third frets on third and fourth strings).

actually - if you canget your hands on some tab for open g tuned guitar, you could transfer it over to banjo quite well.

Richard

"There is nothing whatsoever that does not become easier with acquaintance" - Santideva

see my band UPDATED and IMPROVED SITE ! http://www.geocities.com/bottleneck...atitude.html

mattn - Posted - 03/16/2007:  10:11:43

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If you really want tabs, you can also check out some books on blues guitar, especially slide guitar. There is an open G guitar tuning ("Spanish") used in many of the songs that has the high guitar strings tuned DGBD, so you can use some of the ideas directly on the banjo. Another common tuning in slide blues is Vastopol, with the high strings at DF#AD. This is another cool banjo tuning to try out, with the fifth string at f# or a. So those guitar tabs for slide tunings can give you some idea of how to get going, if that is what you're after. It'll still take some work to turn it into clawhammer, but it isn't so hard if you just mess with it for awhile.

Matt

scawa - Posted - 03/16/2007:  10:12:02

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If you go to the "How and Tao Banjo" site http://howandtao.com/ he has some free video instruction on Frailing the Blues you can download. Good stuff.

Actually he's put them on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yojV8FL68VE - Frailing the Blues Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scksTj1C7co - Frailing the Blues Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtANfeu4gJU - Frailing the Blues Part III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaWgnJnuxzQ - Frailing the Blues Part IV

If you go to Youtube, you can see all his lessons online. He's got some for Tenor Guitar, Tenor Banjo, regualr Frailing Banjo etc etc.

I play Delta Style Blues on the Guitar. I found this info really good. He doesn't talk about Tab, because Blues should be free flowing. You learn the cliches of blues on the banjo and on the guitar and how to pick a little of the melody of a song out and you have the blues.

Good lickin' and good pickin'

Stephen McConnell

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Edited by - scawa on 03/16/2007 10:23:05

delle - Posted - 03/16/2007:  15:32:48

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Thank You, I'm dounloading the YouTube clips.

r/Delle

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 03/16/2007:  16:01:29

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I dont' see what the problem is with clawhammering blues. The chord formation in both G (for G and A) and double C (for C and D) tunings are relatively easy and adding 7ths is simple. IN G tuning you even have the ability to adapt guitar blues runs to the 2nd through 4th strings.
I add a lot of drop thumbs and syncopate them.
Many of the blues I play are jug band blues and they tend to have repeated riffs which sound pretty good on banjo.

The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

delle - Posted - 03/16/2007:  16:37:36

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Links to Guy Davis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ueD8gYmRVI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn90ZIMW0D0

howseth - Posted - 03/16/2007:  19:36:24

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I was really pleased to see this post about playing the blues on the banjo. I have always believed that clawhamer/frailing syle was a natural for blues playing.

Also, I agree with 'SCWA' s post about those "Failing the Blues" lessons -by Patrick Costello on U-Tube, these lessons were quite informative.

Thanks,

Howard

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/16/2007:  22:56:51

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Pete Seeger's "How To Play The 5 String Banjo" had a chapter on playing the Blues. You may want to bend strings, rather than sliding up. Play around with the rythmic emphasis untill it feels right. The biggest thing is to listen to a lot of blues to get the sound in your head. Paul

rendesvous1840

"As I see it, every newborn should be issued a banjo." .....Linus

mike hansen - Posted - 03/17/2007:  10:10:26

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check out "ROCK ME ,MAMA" on my page under music...that a pretty straight blues deal...

www.myspace.com/ricehouserecords
Bart Reiter "GALAX" Model (calf skin head)

Bluesage - Posted - 03/17/2007:  12:15:31

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I've a backup tab to "Going to Chicago Blues" on my website. The idea was to show how I handle a song that requires a slow blues shuffle.

Here's a link to the sound file (the tab is on my Clawhammer page):

http://bluesageband.com/Tab%20MP3s/...kM_nocom.mp3

On a slow blues improvisation, I tend to throw in a lot of triplet runs that utilize the same technique that is used when playing jigs (see my handout on playing in 6/8 time).

Hope this helps...

Mike Iverson
-free downloads of my clawhammer banjo arrangements (pdf files) at www.bluesageband.com

scawa - Posted - 03/29/2007:  12:24:12

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Cool Mike. Thanks....

writerrad - Posted - 03/31/2007:  14:39:02

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I am going to be giving workshops on blues and the banjo at the Mars Hills Old Time Week camp/school/etc in June. I am very needy of suggestions, proposals, questions, that folks have about this. What would they want explained if they went to such a workshop. What advice would they give. What do you want to know. What don't you want to know.

I want to know what anyone here thinks about this, not just folks who are expert on the blues. I would particularly want to know what folks who don't know much about the blues or never play it on the banjo think about such an enterprise.

Help!

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

scawa - Posted - 04/02/2007:  13:34:10

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Is this Mars Hills near Ashville, NC? I'm already going to the Swannanoa gathering there in the end of July. I didn't know there was one at Mars Hills....

sugarinthegourd - Posted - 04/02/2007:  22:22:44

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quote:

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If you go to the "How and Tao Banjo" site http://howandtao.com/ he has some free video instruction on Frailing the Blues you can download.

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I watched Patrick's videos, and frankly, I don't see what these have to do with the blues. What I heard were alternating-bass, major key, ionian mode, 4/4 versions of songs like "Samson & Delilah" and "Stagger Lee" -- sure these songs are associated with the blues but the versions he's playing have more in common with Peter Paul & Mary than with Gary Davis or Long Cleve Reed and Little Harvey Hull.

If you want to hear some real blues played on the banjo, check out Chris Berry's versions of "Skin Game Blues" and "Mixed Blues":

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=banjochris

Best,
John

http://sugarinthegourd.com
http://www.myspace.com/sugarinthegourd

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Edited by - sugarinthegourd on 04/02/2007 22:23:30

RyanHerr - Posted - 04/02/2007:  23:45:18

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quote:

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Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
I watched Patrick's videos, and frankly, I don't see what these have to do with the blues. What I heard were alternating-bass, major key, ionian mode, 4/4 ...

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Well, considering the arguments that Pat and I have gotten in on this forum, I'm surprised to be sticking up for him, but ...

Seriously, he is not playing "major key, ionian mde" - that is just objectively false. (Unless something way different goes on in videos 3 and 4 - I've only watched the first 2.)

The only possible thing that I can think of that would fit your description is when Patrick first introduces a song and does plain vanilla bum-ditty behind it, but that is just to teach the words and the vocal melody and how they fit into the most basic rhythm. You may disagree with the teaching method, but don't be so wildly unfair as to evaluate Patrick's blues playing just by those initial song introductions.

-Ryan.

sugarinthegourd - Posted - 04/03/2007:  10:57:43

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Ryan,

I only watched 3 & 4 and not in their entirety -- but most of them. And other than the titles of the tunes, I didn't see anything "Bluesy" about them. No swing eighths, no triplets, no 12/8 time, no flat thirds or sevenths -- and on a purely subjective scale, they didn't sound like blues.

John

http://sugarinthegourd.com
http://www.myspace.com/sugarinthegourd

RyanHerr - Posted - 04/03/2007:  15:36:38

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Hi John, first of all, thanks for the YouTube link to Banjo Chris - fantastic stuff!

Well, I watched Patrick's videos 3 and 4, and they are different. He does play "Stagolee" as 'major' / 'Ionian.' Now, really bright-sounding major blues has never been my thing either, but Doc Watson and the Reverend Gary Davis play that way plenty, so I'm not about to tell them that it's not real blues, even though I wouldn't personally listen to that style much. (The exception being "She's Funny That Way," for the lyrics. http://www.torvund.net/guitar/index...bl_g-major_4)

I'll admit that Patrick also seems a bit silly when he plays two distinct versions of Stagolee on the guitar, but then when he translates each to the banjo, it comes out essentially identical! Perhaps there is some truth to what Tony Thomas has said: "Pat Costello Jr's approach is good on the video, but he has a maniacal approach that everything has to be played in G tuning, including songs in the keys of D or C or E, so he's great on the G songs, but when he tries to transpose D songs like Stackolee and do them in a G tuning in the key of D, it loses."

Video 4 was pretty frustrating / annoying for me, because the vast majority is pep talk / philosophy, and review using lots of plain vanilla bum-ditty. Nevertheless, the versions he plays of Samson and Delilah at about 11 minutes in and Roll and Tumble at 15 minutes in both make repeated use of 'flat thirds and sevenths.' If you're not hearing them, then watch how much he hangs out at the third fret. If that's how you define bluesiness, then you'll hear a lot more in his version of Minglewood Blues 17:45 into video 2. Video 1 has some cool basic slide stuff.

About 25 minutes into Video 4, Patrick does briefly play a shuffle feel, which he describes as "Muddy Waters style." It's true that there is no shuffle / 12/8 elsewhere in Patrick's videos. It's also true that there is no shuffle feel in Chris Berry's versions of "Skin Game Blues" and "Mixed Blues." So I'm not sure why you're getting hung up on this one of several legitimate rhythmic approaches.

So anyways, part of our disagreement stems from the fact that we happened to watch the opposite two videos, which are different. And it seems that another aspect to our disagreement is that I think I happen to have a broader definition/conception of the blues than you do, and that's an old, subjective, and unresolveable debate. But I guess I still don't get how you missed those flat thirds and sevenths in video 4, which got under my skin considering how thoroughly you dismissed Patrick's blues playing. No matter. At least I found out about Chris Berry!

-Ryan.

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Edited by - RyanHerr on 04/03/2007 15:46:58

writerrad - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:04:03

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bluesage

I've a backup tab to "Going to Chicago Blues" on my website. The idea was to show how I handle a song that requires a slow blues shuffle.

Here's a link to the sound file (the tab is on my Clawhammer page):

http://bluesageband.com/Tab%20MP3s/...kM_nocom.mp3

On a slow blues improvisation, I tend to throw in a lot of triplet runs that utilize the same technique that is used when playing jigs (see my handout on playing in 6/8 time).

Hope this helps...

Mike Iverson
-free downloads of my clawhammer banjo arrangements (pdf files) at www.bluesageband.com

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If you go to His clawhammer page, you will find not only tab but a version of the song with sound insttruction

This helpful as everything you do Mike. It helps give me language for what I will do. I will wrote you offlist mike about all this.

I just have to say a lot of folks overlook how generous people like Mike and Old Woodchuck and Pat Costello are about putting stuff up on the web like this. thanks guys

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

writerrad - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:05:14

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quote:

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Originally posted by scawa

Is this Mars Hills near Ashville, NC? I'm already going to the Swannanoa gathering there in the end of July. I didn't know there was one at Mars Hills....

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Mars Hill is near Asheville, NC

just do a google on Mars Hill College and you will find the information.

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

writerrad - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:05:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by scawa

Is this Mars Hills near Ashville, NC? I'm already going to the Swannanoa gathering there in the end of July. I didn't know there was one at Mars Hills....

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Mars Hill is near Asheville, NC

just do a google on Mars Hill College and you will find the information.

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

writerrad - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:19:37

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quote:

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Originally posted by sugarinthegourd

quote:

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If you go to the "How and Tao Banjo" site http://howandtao.com/ he has some free video instruction on Frailing the Blues you can download.

---

I watched Patrick's videos, and frankly, I don't see what these have to do with the blues. What I heard were alternating-bass, major key, ionian mode, 4/4 versions of songs like "Samson & Delilah" and "Stagger Lee" -- sure these songs are associated with the blues but the versions he's playing have more in common with Peter Paul & Mary than with Gary Davis or Long Cleve Reed and Little Harvey Hull.

If you want to hear some real blues played on the banjo, check out Chris Berry's versions of "Skin Game Blues" and "Mixed Blues":

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=banjochris

Best,
John

http://sugarinthegourd.com
http://www.myspace.com/sugarinthegourd

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Chris's blues and other playing are real traditional banjo playing modeled on the tradition without having to adapt.

I think folks can play the blues and play whatever tradition or style of banjo that they come from. Chris Berry plays some great Dock Boggs music which though blues influenced is old time banjo finger style, something that does not get enough credit.

He doesn't sound like a delta blues man either. He sounds like the many old time banjo players who played the blues in their own ways.

Myself, I first began playing blues on the banjo as just a transfer of what I do on the guitar. Several of my earlier posts here reflect that. However, as time went on, I found that was really a way to stay stuck in regard to banjo technique and really absorbing the tradition and wonder of old time banjo. I think we can hear all kinds of blues played by white and Black banjo players playing in old time banjo style without trying to sound like blues guitar players.



Yes, I agree with your criticism of Pat's stuff, and as an old-time player, I really admire Chris's stuff and crave those banjos.
S;peaking of someone whose generosity about music has helped thousands John is another one every one of us should thank

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

writerrad - Posted - 04/13/2007:  21:28:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by RyanHerr

quote:

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Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
I watched Patrick's videos, and frankly, I don't see what these have to do with the blues. What I heard were alternating-bass, major key, ionian mode, 4/4 ...

---

Well, considering the arguments that Pat and I have gotten in on this forum, I'm surprised to be sticking up for him, but ...

Seriously, he is not playing "major key, ionian mde" - that is just objectively false. (Unless something way different goes on in videos 3 and 4 - I've only watched the first 2.)

The only possible thing that I can think of that would fit your description is when Patrick first introduces a song and does plain vanilla bum-ditty behind it, but that is just to teach the words and the vocal melody and how they fit into the most basic rhythm. You may disagree with the teaching method, but don't be so wildly unfair as to evaluate Patrick's blues playing just by those initial song introductions.

-Ryan.

---

//

I bought the DVD version of what pat is teaching here. Even though Pat has said and done thingsin various internet forums that are simply reprehensible and seem to reflect personal problems, I think he has a great and enthusiastic way of teaching beginning banjo. I found his materials to be a great corrector to many ways I mislearned the banjo. I still find looking at them and returning to them helps me get the basics right.

I think this stuff is pretty good, except once he gets into playing tunes in keys other than G. Just because a guitarist plays a tune in D on the guitar, doesn't mrean you play the tune in D in G tuning. Having played Stackolee for 43 years, it translates to eiher G or double C tuning, or the D tuning, but I don/'t try to base what I do on the key but the sound of the tune played on the banjo.

Naturally if you want to get deeper into the blues you require more. Myself, I think the way to go is more stuff like John Showed in Chris Berry's work or to go and listen to some of the Black banjo players. What I look for is the actual playing styles of old time banjo that old time banjoists used to play blues.

Tony Thomas, a black banjo player

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 04/13/2007:  23:42:03

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Double C tuning and blues
I play a raggy version of "Stagolee" that I bet would work out well on the banjo -- I'm just not sure if it would work better on the 4 or the 5 string. I like "San Francisco Bay Blues" on the 4 and that might be an indication.
That said, there is no reason in the world why the 4 string version couldn't be clawhammered on a 5 - if one is willing to accept a certain amount of dissonance between the 5th string and the chords.
All of which is merely a lead up to what I intended to say about Double C tuning and the blues ---

I prefer to play blues in Double C tuning for the simple reason that the 5th string is not playing the tonic note, but the 5th. This doesn't make much of a difference in relatively straight blues that use only the I, IV, V chords (G, C, D in the key of G - D, G, A in the key of D) but when you start doing more raggy stuff there is just less dissonance when that 5 note is on the drone.

There are other situations - like when a song does one of those Dominant of Dominant changes (happens a lot in country based blues -- not old time country blues like Dock Boggs, but big C Country blues like Hank Williams and Willy Nelson) the actual Dom of Dom chord is a major 2nd above the tonic and the drone should make a nice 7th for that chord - but in those types of blues that chord simply sounds wrong with a 7th. At the same time if you do it in the Double C tuning the drone note becomes a suspended 4th which sounds molto tres cool - at least to the ear of someone like me who rarely even has 3rds in most of his chords.

Of course this has immediately give me an idea for tuning the drone to the 7th of the Tonic chord (f in the key of G) and see what happens. I've never tried it and it might be fun.

Which leads to my second point. If you keep the rhythm right and play the right chords at least 75% of the time it really is as simple to play blues on clawhammer banjo as it is on guitar. Just take the same approach. Start with chords, add some 7ths, make some pentatonic runs, or do a walking bass, find those little Hendrix, or B.B. King licks if you want to get fancy (I leave the fancy stuff up to others - I consider myself a rhythm man when playing blues), and just enjoy yourself. That's how to play the blues on any fretted instrument, and with modification on any instrument whatsoever.

Warning - These claims have not been tested by the Blues and Rags Administration. If you experience muscle spasms stop playing immediately and go dancing. Do not operate heavy machinery as blues does not need 18 pound resonator flanges. You soulnd not attempt to play blues if you are too uptight to have a good time. If symptoms persist play along with Albert King albums or tell your fiddler to buy a Strat. Professional track, closed driver, close cover before striking, her love is like a hydrant, watch your fingers.



The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html