Copo - Posted - 01/27/2007:  08:02:22

Hello folks. Just wondering, why are so many tunes called breakdowns. What exactly does the breakdown mean? Cheers

roguebanjos - Posted - 01/27/2007:  09:46:41

A breakdown is done at a really high tempo. My favorite is Pike Country Breakdown. Foggy Mountain is good too, but it can't stand up to Pike Country.

------------------------
Jon K.

"If I troll you once, I must have troll you a thousand times!
Don't go picking up bad hobbits from them banjo pickers.
And if somebody offers you a copy of Lord of the Rings for Valentine's Day,
tell 'em "No Thanks". Because that is not an appropriate Tolkien of affection for a classy broad such as yourself."
Mike Gregory, in response to "troll" thread.

Scarecrow - Posted - 01/27/2007:  09:47:56

Hello Copo.
Seen it in jazz too. Always seems to be a fast tune, but I've never seen reference to an actual dance. A definitive answer would be nice, hope someone posts one.
Do you play any breakdowns?

Scarecrow

"Music is...a gesture of friendship..." - Malcolm Arnold.

janolov - Posted - 01/27/2007:  10:16:05

Breakdown is what happens to newbies that try to play breakdowns (own experiance).

I have understood that it is a common term for reels and hornpipes in old-time music. These are often performed very fast and in 4/4. Usually they have two parts, sometimes called "coarse" and "fine" or sometimes just A and B (usually played AABB) and where both the A part and B part have 8 measures. I have seen the term "breakdown" mentioned from around year 1900.

Bluegrassers seem to use "Breakdown" more for fast instrumentals, which does not necessarily have this AABB structure, for example Foggy Mountain Breakdown.


Janolov

Jarron - Posted - 01/27/2007:  15:19:00

They are the songs, that make the girls want to dance with we men thats why we men like them =) HAHAHA

Jarron - Posted - 01/27/2007:  15:19:27

HAHAHA, I maid myself laugh so hard ...HAHA!! =)

Jarron - Posted - 01/27/2007:  15:23:18

Oh sorry! Back to the question, well this says it all.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break_%28music%29

roguebanjos - Posted - 01/28/2007:  10:29:59

Thats cheating at your goal Jarron :)

------------------------
Jon K.

"If I troll you once, I must have troll you a thousand times!
Don't go picking up bad hobbits from them banjo pickers.
And if somebody offers you a copy of Lord of the Rings for Valentine's Day,
tell 'em "No Thanks". Because that is not an appropriate Tolkien of affection for a classy broad such as yourself."
Mike Gregory, in response to "troll" thread.

Jarron - Posted - 01/28/2007:  13:54:57

Ha ha, I had too say that....hehehe....

oldtimer - Posted - 01/28/2007:  17:00:29

A breakdown or a hoedown is an uptempo 2/4 fiddle tune intended for square dancing. The Wiki definition obviously comes from a different culture. I played for my first barn dance in 1946 and I still play for barn dances today. 90% of the tunes that Mike and I play at dances are breakdowns. Another way to look at it is that breakdown is the American name for a reel, but I think that this definition puts a false emphasis on the Anglo tradition and ignores the important black input which makes the breakdown very different from an Irish or English reel..

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

1998 Riley Baugus
1923 Whyte Laydie
Prust 13" fretless tackhead
Early Ramsey fretless
1878 Henry C. Dobson

"Time passes unhindered"

Edited by - oldtimer on 01/29/2007 00:52:37

Scarecrow - Posted - 01/28/2007:  18:01:16

Thanks, oldtimer. A proper answer. Appreciate it.
Still don't know why they're so-called though!


Scarecrow

"Music is...a gesture of friendship..." - Malcolm Arnold.

Edited by - Scarecrow on 01/28/2007 18:02:10

roguebanjos - Posted - 01/29/2007:  21:42:11

Well, the simple definition(taken from Janet Davis Ultimate Banjo Songbook) is a song played at a high tempo.

------------------------
Jon K.

"If I troll you once, I must have troll you a thousand times!
Don't go picking up bad hobbits from them banjo pickers.
And if somebody offers you a copy of Lord of the Rings for Valentine's Day,
tell 'em "No Thanks". Because that is not an appropriate Tolkien of affection for a classy broad such as yourself."
Mike Gregory, in response to "troll" thread.

paddylazio - Posted - 02/03/2007:  16:20:00

a breakdown is wat u had last week copo a nervous one

Copo - Posted - 01/27/2007:  08:02:22

Hello folks. Just wondering, why are so many tunes called breakdowns. What exactly does the breakdown mean? Cheers

Porteiro - Posted - 02/05/2007:  11:46:53

I keep finding myself reaching for the guitar whenever I want to sing and reaching for the banjo whenever I want to play.

So, I was thinking that perhaps I ought to start learning clawhammer. It seems to be a style better suited to playing accompaniment to vocals. Is this an accurate perception, or am I mistaken?

Also, can anybody recommend some good clawhammer albums? I have a lot of bluegrass banjo to listen to, but very little clawhammer.

jbalch - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:01:33

I don't sing when I play (that is just me).

But a friend, who plays both 3-finger and clawhammer, just made the comment that he prefers clawhammer because it is great for accompanying his singing.



http://www.johnbalchmusic.com/
http://www.myspace.com/johnbalch

Emiel - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:20:54

In general, Scruggs-style is not very suited for solo-singer accompaniment. Other styles like old-time three-finger picking, old-time two-finger picking, frailing (clawhammer), up-picking ("basic strum") and other oldtime styles are better for this purpose.

Emiel


http://www.nowhereradio.com/emiel
http://www.bluerounders.com

arnie - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:26:09

Cathy Fink has come out with a new DVD on how to accompany yourself on the clawhammer banjo while singing. I'd recommend getting this. I'd also recommend looking up The Midwest Banjo Camp. Great place to learn not only from Cathy, but other great players in all levels. I have recorded some songs with Chris Coole on our "5 Strings Attached" cds. You can check them out on my webpage - Old Time Music tab, and listen to a few things on the indiovidual pages too.
Cheers, Arnie Naiman

Arnie Naiman
http://www.merriweather.ca/Records.aspx?ID=2

mwc9725e - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:32:42

quote:

---

Originally posted by Porteiro

I keep finding myself reaching for the guitar whenever I want to sing and reaching for the banjo whenever I want to play.

So, I was thinking that perhaps I ought to start learning clawhammer. It seems to be a style better suited to playing accompaniment to vocals. Is this an accurate perception, or am I mistaken?

Also, can anybody recommend some good clawhammer albums? I have a lot of bluegrass banjo to listen to, but very little clawhammer.

---

janolov - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:37:43

I think simple clawhammer (bum-dit-ty) with some pull-offs and hammer-on are good accompaniment for singing. Listen for example to Mike Iverson http://www.bluesageband.com/Tabs.html . Too advanced clawfinger are usually not good for own accompaniment because then you have to concentrate on the playing. As you can see there are a lot of first-class clawhammer players (see John Balch for example) that prefer not to sing. Also the "basic strum" (pick up a melody note, brush down a chord and thumb the fifth string) is also good for singing. Listen for example to Pete Seeger. There are also some more odd styles, listen for example to Gary Blanchard (go to member list and search garyblanchard and go to his homepage at BHO, where he has put some of his music). He do some kind of strumming together wit twofinger up-picking.

Janolov

Edited by - janolov on 02/05/2007 13:03:18

jasperr - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:44:34

I second Mike Iversons website as a good place to start. Bob Carlin sings on some of his albums. And Arnie Naiman (welcome to the hangout, Arnie) and Chris Coole's 2 albums are full of singing and great playing.

Jim

raybob - Posted - 02/05/2007:  12:58:32

I agree with jasperr. I never get tired of listening to Arnie and Chris' albums. Fine examples of songs and tunes showing both clawhammer and finger picking banjo styles. Do yourself a favor...

Welcome to the Hangout Arnie.

Ray

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists...4951&alid=-1

FretlessFury - Posted - 02/05/2007:  13:13:54

I find that clawhammer banjo is great for accompanying voice.

My process of putting voice over the music is to first learn my banjo part absolutely cold so I can do it in my sleep. Then I slow everything down with a metronome and just work in the lines of the verses and choruses one by one. It takes time if you have an intricate banjo part going in the background, but once it clicks it's there for good.

It's certainly different than a guitar strum, but voice and clawhammer is a match made in heaven.

Tom Collins

--------------------------
www.newhottimes.com

Red hot old time music.

ZEPP - Posted - 02/05/2007:  14:17:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by arnie

I have recorded some songs with Chris Coole on our "5 Strings Attached" cds.

---

dbrooks - Posted - 02/05/2007:  16:20:27

Welcome, Arnie. I look forward to hearing more from you.

David

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/05/2007:  18:03:39

I used to do more Seeger basic strum when singing, but eventually switched over to clawhammer alone as when working with a band there is a definate rhythm difference and it was better to stick with one or the other.

But if you aren't a band type player, the Seeger strum is a great song accompaniment style, and flows beautifully. It uses the "bum did-dy" like clawhammer but the "bum" is done with the index finger picking upward, the "did" is a brush down usually with the middle finger and "dy" is the thumb stroke on the 5th string. It doesn't take much practice for a fingerpicking guitarist to get it going.

There is also nothing wrong in doing two of three finger picking forms on the banjo - in fact in the 60s most well known banjo players were pretty well acquainted with muitiple styles so they could fit the accompaniment to the song. One such style was essentially fingerpicking guitar with the high kicker substituting for bass runs. It takes a little parctice to get it but it works pretty well. There are also several picking styles that are more banjo oriented.


The Whiskey Before Breakfast variations and a few tunes in "F" tuning are now available on the web at:
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

Mountain Banjer Girl - Posted - 02/05/2007:  21:17:02

There are three really good clawhammer banjo albums availabe on the County label entitled, Clawhammer Banjo Volume 1, 2, and 3. I'm pretty sure they are out on CD now, and they have several nice cuts featuring clawhammer banjo with vocals. Hope this helps.

Pour it on.

arnie - Posted - 02/05/2007:  21:36:21

Oh - gee - thanks for your nice comments folks! The reason I started playing banjo in the first place was just to accompany myself singing all kinds of songs. I wanted to be like Michael Cooney, and then I suddenly discovered the old time music world of seemingly endless fiddle tunes & songs. A good song with a banjo - can't be beat - that's why Uncle Dave Macon was the greatest star of The Grand Ol Opry.

Arnie Naiman
http://www.merriweather.ca/Records.aspx?ID=2