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warailroader - Posted - 04/08/2026: 11:55:11
I've been playing "at" the banjo for 12 years. I've taken lessons both in person and on line and even subscribe to three web based systems like BanjoBen. I practice or at least pick up the banjo everyday. I jam with others at least twice a week and sometimes more. Heck I even try to "perform" in a four person group that does the local senior citizens circuit where we "entertain" for an hour. With all that said, I can not play fast enough to keep up with most folks in a jam at 8 beats per measure. My fingers will not do it. Then only thing I seem to be able to do is roll the chords and that's usually an in and out roll. I try to add some banjo spice by doing a slide or hammer on here and there but still only with 4 beats in a measure. So I'm looking for some advice, not to get faster because I don't think that's going to happen. Is there any way to make my playing sound more "banjo" at half the normal beats per minute?
BobbyE - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:05:08
I will offer this anyway in spite of your saying it's not what you are looking for. Maybe consider it. Download a free metronome off the internet that allows you to play and adjust the click speed. Don't worry if it wants to emphasize a beat as that ain't what you want. Just listen for the clicks. Slow the clicks down where they are slower than you can presently play. Play one note per click, preferably using a roll pattern. Play at that speed for 15 minutes a day for a week. Move it up five clicks the next week and repeat. If five is too many, move it up one or whatever you can handle. You are not concerned with timing, just matching a click on the metronome with a note on your banjo but right on top of the click. Keep up this drill until you realize speed's not everything with banjo playing but you can keep up with most songs that are usually played at a fast tempo. Good luck.
Bobby
Edited by - BobbyE on 04/08/2026 12:08:24
martyjoe - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:09:32
Don’t give up on playing slower. When I’m caught out not being able to keep up I cut out a few notes here and there. Catch a few short phrases when I can. I’m finding it’s getting a little better for me and I’m getting better at fudging it. Like yourself I feel like I’m never going to get full Speed but it’s starting to becoming more fun trying.
JimmyBobby - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:15:52
Hi Bobby, I like your advice. I, too, am looking to improve speed. Just to carify…you say start on a speed slower than you can play. I’m curious as to how much slower you recommend?
pinenut - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:31:00
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
I've been playing "at" the banjo for 12 years. check
I've taken lessons both in person and on line and even subscribe to three web based systems like BanjoBen. check
I practice or at least pick up the banjo everyday. perfect
I jam with others at least twice a week and sometimes more. better than perfect
Heck I even try to "perform" in a four person group winning
I can not play fast enough to keep up with most folks in a jam at 8 beats per measure. My fingers will not do it. Then only thing I seem to be able to do is roll the chords and that's usually an in and out roll. I try to add some banjo spice by doing a slide or hammer on here and there but still only with 4 beats in a measure. So I'm looking for some advice, not to get faster because I don't think that's going to happen.
Is there any way to make my playing sound more "banjo" at half the normal beats per minute? 
2F/3F does, but it's a slight shift in thinking from Scruggs to proto-Scruggs and learning material is thin or sorta-translatable from clawhammer literature. "Groundhog" from the Scruggs book is a good transitional tune to investigate.
We need more information about you.
- age: young (approx. 18–39), middle (40–64), and old (65+)
- Which hand is restricting speed: fretting or picking hand.
- physical impairments like arthritis or injuries
- athleticism; weekly daily physical activities?
- prior musical experiences
Edited by - pinenut on 04/08/2026 12:38:15
warailroader - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:45:07
quote:Thanks Bobby, I will give this a try.
Originally posted by BobbyE
I will offer this anyway in spite of your saying it's not what you are looking for. Maybe consider it. Download a free metronome off the internet that allows you to play and adjust the click speed. Don't worry if it wants to emphasize a beat as that ain't what you want. Just listen for the clicks. Slow the clicks down where they are slower than you can presently play. Play one note per click, preferably using a roll pattern. Play at that speed for 15 minutes a day for a week. Move it up five clicks the next week and repeat. If five is too many, move it up one or whatever you can handle. You are not concerned with timing, just matching a click on the metronome with a note on your banjo but right on top of the click. Keep up this drill until you realize speed's not everything with banjo playing but you can keep up with most songs that are usually played at a fast tempo. Good luck.
Bobby
chuckv97 - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:50:22
We are like athletes that use our fingers instead of arms & legs… do these stretches daily, they really help. youtu.be/FcbZb_Snxr8?si=ByXpg90jTs3OQciN
I also recommend metronome work ! Try “speed bursts” - play a certain roll (that fits in one measure - 8 notes) over & over at a slow tempo (1 click per note), then play it at twice the speed — 2 notes per click on the metronome for 5 seconds.
Good luck!
Edited by - chuckv97 on 04/08/2026 13:04:57
warailroader - Posted - 04/08/2026: 12:53:09
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
I've been playing "at" the banjo for 12 years. check
I've taken lessons both in person and on line and even subscribe to three web based systems like BanjoBen. check
I practice or at least pick up the banjo everyday. perfect
I jam with others at least twice a week and sometimes more. better than perfect
Heck I even try to "perform" in a four person group winning
I can not play fast enough to keep up with most folks in a jam at 8 beats per measure. My fingers will not do it. Then only thing I seem to be able to do is roll the chords and that's usually an in and out roll. I try to add some banjo spice by doing a slide or hammer on here and there but still only with 4 beats in a measure. So I'm looking for some advice, not to get faster because I don't think that's going to happen.
Is there any way to make my playing sound more "banjo" at half the normal beats per minute? 2F/3F does, but it's a slight shift in thinking from Scruggs to proto-Scruggs and learning material is thin or sorta-translatable from clawhammer literature. "Groundhog" from the Scruggs book is a good transitional tune to investigate.
We need more information about you.
- age: young (approx. 18–39), middle (40–64), and old (65+)
- Which hand is restricting speed: fretting or picking hand.
- physical impairments like arthritis or injuries
- athleticism; weekly daily physical activities?
- prior musical experiences
Ok i'm 70
I think my restriction is the fretting hand as I just tried BobbyE's idea and was able to roll at about 260 BPM.
No arthritis that I know of.
Walking is the most athletic I get these days.
NO MUSICAL experience before playing the banjo. However, through this instrument I have learned a great deal. If I can say anything positive about my learning, it's that I seem to know the neck pretty well. When I do play my chords in a key other than G I usually don't use a capo.
pinenut - Posted - 04/08/2026: 13:30:13
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
Is there any way to make my playing sound more "banjo" at half the normal beats per minute? 2F/3F does, but it's a shift in from Scruggs to proto-Scruggs. "Groundhog" from the Scruggs book is a good transitional tune to investigate.
I think my restriction is the fretting hand as I just tried BobbyE's idea and was able to roll at about 260 BPM. By BobbyE's description this is 260 NotesPerMinute, or did you divide by at least four?
NO MUSICAL experience before playing the banjo. However, through this instrument I have learned a great deal. If I can say anything positive about my learning, it's that I seem to know the neck pretty well. When I do play my chords in a key other than G I usually don't use a capo. impressive
Bobby's right about increasing speed with regular, purposeful and methodical practice. Not a quick activity, be patient with yourself.
3F is a good 'patch' while the speed works itself up. It can be less of a handful (feels slower) because the focus tends to be on a stripped melody plus punctuation with less fill notes.
Earl learned 2F/3F before he created "Scruggs Style"; shift to where he started. He set a good path for us to follow.
Edited by - pinenut on 04/08/2026 13:45:26
Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/08/2026: 14:24:45
I found that there was always going to be someone or some group that was better, faster than I was. What did I do? I found people who played at my speed or a little more or a little less and let the hot shot pickers have their own group. Worked for me.
Now? At my age no one expects me to be a hot shot picker so I don't have to worry about trying to keep up with others. Relax, enjoy what you can do and if you want to try picking faster, go for it! I hope it works for you.
martyjoe - Posted - 04/08/2026: 15:59:27
Remember too that the impediment to playing fast may not only be in the fingers. I have found that sometimes my brain can’t keep up either. I can handle some pretty complex tunes and then I can stumble over some intermediate ones because I don’t know where to put my fingers. Eventually the brain figures it out.
warailroader - Posted - 04/08/2026: 16:18:21
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
Is there any way to make my playing sound more "banjo" at half the normal beats per minute? 2F/3F does, but it's a shift in from Scruggs to proto-Scruggs. "Groundhog" from the Scruggs book is a good transitional tune to investigate.
I think my restriction is the fretting hand as I just tried BobbyE's idea and was able to roll at about 260 BPM. By BobbyE's description this is 260 NotesPerMinute, or did you divide by at least four?
NO MUSICAL experience before playing the banjo. However, through this instrument I have learned a great deal. If I can say anything positive about my learning, it's that I seem to know the neck pretty well. When I do play my chords in a key other than G I usually don't use a capo. impressive
Bobby's right about increasing speed with regular, purposeful and methodical practice. Not a quick activity, be patient with yourself.
3F is a good 'patch' while the speed works itself up. It can be less of a handful (feels slower) because the focus tends to be on a stripped melody plus punctuation with less fill notes.
Earl learned 2F/3F before he created "Scruggs Style"; shift to where he started. He set a good path for us to follow.
What is 2F/3F?
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 04/08/2026: 16:20:52
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
Then only thing I seem to be able to do is roll the chords and that's usually an in and out roll.
If by in and out roll you mean the square, alternating-thumb, TITM motion, I think this will limit your speed, at least it does for me. The forward roll motion TIMTIMTIMTIMTIM is the one you want for speed.
Tractor1 - Posted - 04/08/2026: 16:42:37
playing lighter might help,,
Nopix - Posted - 04/08/2026: 16:59:56
Are you singing the song at 256bpm?
I only have to play as fast as I sing.
pinenut - Posted - 04/08/2026: 18:10:41
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by pinenut
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
"Groundhog" from the Scruggs book is a good transitional tune to investigate.
banjohangout.org/photo/315753
Earl learned 2F/3F before he created "Scruggs Style"; shift to where he started. He set a good path for us to follow.
What is 2F/3F?
2F is an up-picking parallel of claw-hammer. This is not your stated path, moot point.
3F is roughly Scruggs style, with less busywork, every note counts and timing is not automated. Many of the extra roll notes that are not directly related to melody or punctuation for the song are not present. There are often less chords and more left hand busywork and the right is more focused on the tune emphasis notes only. Very roughly speaking... Fire up the youtube machine for better descriptions and examples.
Less notes played means that your BPM potential may be increased proportionate to the amount of notes removed from the rolls. Less notes played and notes per minute speed stays the same means higher BPM. Very roughly speaking...
Best, Kam
Edited by - pinenut on 04/08/2026 18:15:32
Rich Weill - Posted - 04/08/2026: 19:13:08
warailroader,
How complex are the arrangements you are trying to play? One way of keeping up (I won’t use the phrase “playing faster”) is to simplify what you’re playing. Strip out some of the ornamentation. Use simpler rolls. Use only the rolls you are most comfortable with, and play best.
Hopefully, you are able to vary how you play songs. (For some people, who have memorized a specific tab arrangement, simplification can be difficult.) If this is something you can do, try it.
tdennis - Posted - 04/08/2026: 19:42:07
You have been given some very good advice about increasing speed & stamina, but in the end, at a certain age, one is faced with certain limits. My tack would be to find more appropriate songs that reflect my skills & abilities. You might even enjoy rethinking your repertoire.
Edited by - tdennis on 04/08/2026 19:44:06
rvrose - Posted - 04/08/2026: 22:12:15
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
Then only thing I seem to be able to do is roll the chords and that's usually an in and out roll.
If by in and out roll you mean the square, alternating-thumb, TITM motion, I think this will limit your speed, at least it does for me. The forward roll motion TIMTIMTIMTIMTIM is the one you want for speed.
This is the first thing I thought when I read the OP. Thumb in and out is the hardest roll for me to do fast. I agree, go with a forward roll for speed.
Rick
pfalzgrass - Posted - 04/08/2026: 22:40:17
Agree with the forward roll, I play 3 1 5 3 1 5 3 1 most of the time. Recommended excercise above with metronome or strum machine helps develop timing.
I suggest to switch repertoire and learn to sing while playing the banjo. Tons of slow and sad bluegrass songs out there which require good singing. That was my approach and it has a couple of benefits:
In a jam the one suggesting a song usually has to sing it, so you get to pick key and repertoire. Playing banjo while singing does not focus on speed but rather on what are you able to play independent while you focus on singing. This improves timing and muscle memory a lot over time. The goal is to play an even roll, while singing. Suddenly speed looses importance. We banjo players tend to focus too often at speed instead of what fits to the song.
Banjo-Pup - Posted - 04/09/2026: 07:25:58
Lots of good advice here. After playing about 8 years I was at a speed plateau. I use a metronome, play with strum machine, and in a monthly slow jam group. But I always hit a speed wall. Here’s my experience with the right hand.
One thing that really helped with the right hand speed was muting the strings with the left hand and picking along in time to songs I really liked. I made a playlist of songs with increasing tempos. Started picking along to the slow one until I could keep it right in time. Usually focusing on a few rolls through the song, with a minute or so each (forward, forward reverse, foggy mountain roll, etc). When I had that down cold, I’d move to another song in faster tempo.
After a few weeks I started being able to pick songs that I couldn’t keep up with before. At some point, you’ll stretch the speed to where you’re right hand will have to change to keep the speed. You’ll pick more lightly on the strings and the finger picks feel like they’re dancing instead of stomping past the strings. It’s as much a mental shift as a physical one. Now I can pick along at much much faster speeds.
Once I had this down with the strings muted, I started adding in chords. Now I’m working on adding in some licks at the fast speed. I’m not yet to full solos and melodies where I want to be, but it’s made a difference. At my last monthly jam I played along with a song that was the fastest my group had ever attempted in our 4+ years of jamming together. That’s worth it!
Banner Blue - Posted - 04/09/2026: 07:29:15
Many fast bluegrass songs are played too fast.
warailroader - Posted - 04/09/2026: 10:34:43
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Blue
Many fast bluegrass songs are played too fast.
I agree and to compound that there are some folks who like to see some of the rest of us struggling.
RB-1 - Posted - 04/09/2026: 11:06:33
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Blue
Many fast bluegrass songs are played too fast.
...folks who like to see some of the rest of us struggling...
also known as a personality disorder....
Those morons don't deserve a place in any jam.
pinenut - Posted - 04/09/2026: 12:07:49
quote:
Originally posted by RB-1
quote:
Originally posted by warailroader
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Blue
Many fast bluegrass songs are played too fast.
...folks who like to see some of the rest of us struggling...
also known as a personality disorder.... Those morons don't deserve a place in any jam.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you" ~Friedrich Nietzsche~
Owen - Posted - 04/09/2026: 12:18:16
Can't play any faster???
Onto a tangent I suppose, but back when I was trying to farm, my 766 IHC tractor sounded (?) and seemed to run better or more comfortably [whatever that means] around 2000 rpm, though it was rated for 2200 rpm. Fwiw, I suspect the PTO driven implements agreed with my assessment.
Jaimie_h - Posted - 04/17/2026: 08:47:30
One thing that helped me get past the speed roadblock was to put on my picks and do roll patterns on my leg or whatever was available. I would go faster and faster, just pushing my fingers to go as fast as they could without worrying too much about accuracy. Eventually I started getting the rolls more and more accurate; then I moved back to the banjo and tried it just muting the strings with my left hand. Once I had it sounding good with dampened strings, I let go and worked in some chord changes. Now I know how fast I can go, the next step is to slow it back down and work on accuracy and timing consistency with a metronome. Still a long way from where I'd like to be, but feels closer all the time!
Hope this helps. It's probably "wrong," but it personally helped me break the mental speed barrier.
Jaimie
Mad Hornet - Posted - 04/17/2026: 08:54:18
I noticed the OP said his main impediment is the fretting hand. Have you tried doing partial chords using only strings 1 and 2? There's a lot you can do using just those two strings and the 5th and it's a lot quicker to fret two strings than 3 or 4.
