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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/406839/2
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randybartlett - Posted - 01/12/2026: 16:43:09
quote:
Originally posted by writerrad... Find out what keys your voice works best in.
I came to say this.
Find out what key you can sing each song in with good volume.
Some songs I can really belt out, but if it's too high, I get weaker sounding. Same for "too low". The right key for you is song-dependent. There's not one-size-fits-all.
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 16:45:01
quote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoI was once told that if you can talk, you can sing. That got me started. I had no idea about voice range or projecting my voice and at first I wasn't very good. After taking some singing lessons, I did learn how to figure out what key was best in what song for my voice. Many people think they can sing all songs in just one key and for most of us, that doesn't work. I also learned to project my voice (projecting is not yelling it's singing using the diaphragam to enhance).
If you're not happy with your singing, maybe a few voice lessons would help IF you can find a good teacher and IF you can afford them.
Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 16:53:45
quote:
Originally posted by OwenWhen I sing (?) at home, my lovely and talented assistant regularly tells me I should sing louder.
I have the opposite problem. I go out on my porch and just let er rip to the world at large. I come in and hear bluegrass music blaring from my wife's work room. When asked what inspired her, she says "I just wanted to hear some music that was in tune." I inspired her though, right???
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 16:57:34
quote:
Originally posted by stanleytoneIts hard trying to sing beyond ones range. I would think a voice coach might help you a little . Some just have a natural ability to go high or low. Just find the keys you're comfortable with .if theres a song that has one small part where you have to go beyond your range you might try just modifying the melody enough to get by. No use throwing away a good song because you cant hit a certain note
It seems likely, but with practice can I improve my range and comfort zone? I'm thinking of all my G major songs here, I really don't want to re-tune down to F or E (or worse, re-learn everything at different fret locations).
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 17:00:02
quote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137But I learned from his experience that when at a jam if I sang with reckless abandon it would energize the song, I would be heard, and the players in the jam would feed off that energy. I’m not a good singer, but I have a good time and when I sing everybody seems to have fun.
So my advice - find the right key and then sing with “reckless abandon”!
Love this, sounds like my kind of advice
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 17:01:29
quote:
Originally posted by Mickhammer
Caveat: I've never been to one of these jams. I did one or two jams with rock musicians, not a fun experience for a singer!
Oh man I was really soaking up your constructive criticisms until I got to this post. Back of the line buddy!
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/12/2026: 17:07:43
quote:
Originally posted by NopixI wouldn't attend a jam with a "leader." Sandbox rules are what a real jam is all about.
Sandbox rules... like what, there's no head person and every one just contributes as they desire? Not familiar with the term.
jdeluke137 - Posted - 01/12/2026: 18:04:00
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by stanleytoneIts hard trying to sing beyond ones range. I would think a voice coach might help you a little . Some just have a natural ability to go high or low. Just find the keys you're comfortable with .if theres a song that has one small part where you have to go beyond your range you might try just modifying the melody enough to get by. No use throwing away a good song because you cant hit a certain note
It seems likely, but with practice can I improve my range and comfort zone? I'm thinking of all my G major songs here, I really don't want to re-tune down to F or E (or worse, re-learn everything at different fret locations).
I can play in D, E or F if necessary, but I don't have as much fun. But I've found if I can't sing a song in G that I can usually do it in B or C, and then just capo my banjo at the 4th or 5th fret. I've even found a couple I can do in Bb better. So try several different keys. You may be surprised where you land. And if you do land on D, E or F look at it as a learning challenge/opportunity.
There's a guy I just started playing with that likes E and F and I've been forced to work out breaks for his songs. Working them out has actually been fun and it's going to make me a more well rounded player.
Bluegrass is supposed to be fun! Enjoy the ride wherever it takes you!
writerrad - Posted - 01/12/2026: 18:07:25
A lot of great comments all around on your posts, thank you!
//RE: not playing the same thing for different parts of a song - I may experiment with a banjo mute for awhile on my songs with vocal parts.///
Just go on YouTube. Watch the Flatt and Scruggs shows from the 50s and early 60s. Look at what Earl does on the times on almost every show where he sings a backup vocal to Lester Flatt or Hyko Brown's singing. Look at what he is doing with the banjo. He is not clanging it full bore the way you do. Again find a bluegrass band and go watch them, introduce yourself to the banjoist or singer, explain your problem. Watch what Bluegrass people do.
"I"'ve been trying to play near the bridge for a more mellow tone too," The closer your picking fingers are to the bridge you will be play less mellow. The strings near the bridge are the tightest they can be and the tones they make are more trebble less mellow. Mechanically they do not have to vibrate as far to be played. The further AWAY from the bridge you play the more mellow you will sound, the less you will conflict with the voice.
"This is the reason relatively few Bluegrass banjoists are 5 string banjo players." means". Did you mean vocalists? "This is the reason relatively few Bluegrass banjoists are vocalists." Yes vocalists. You would be surprised how many people in Bluegrass who are vocalists once were banjoists or can still play the heck out of a five string banjo.
The main thing to do is to find people who actually play bluegrass and sing and talk to them or get together with them which is superior typing here.
Historically the pitching of the banjo was changed between the 1840s or 50s when the banjo as we know it first appeared. Banjos were originally pitched 3 steps or more below the current pitching of the banjo. We call the early banjo music written up until the late 19th century where this was changed, A notation, since the same configuration on a banjo that produces C would produce A. At that the likewise in the G tuning, it would produce E etc,
At the end of the 19th century a trend to raise the pitch of string instruments was advanced internationally with American musicians and the AFM being in the vanguard of that, so on the banjo the pitching was raised to the current pitching.
The designs of Bluegrass banjos especially the Gibsons come from Tenor Banjos that came out in the early 1900s which are and were pitched fairly high, because the use of these banjos was largely playing in rag time and popular music ensembles with brass. Dixieland bands are a last survivor of this kind of music., as early jazz was a form of ragtime. You have to hear a band like that live to understand the problem. The brass that would break through a band with a Tuba, a trombone, and a Trumpet, drums, required a banjo whose high treble would cut through the brass and provide the beat. The solution that banjo designers had was to accentuate the treble sound of the banjo which fit in with pitching being raised much higher. A tenor so designed will cut through that brass to provide the beat.
Gibson Mastertones were designed for that purpose. Gibson then the US major mandolin company did not make a banjo until around 1918 and then only made tenor banjos for years. By the 1920s, 5 string models were introduced as a minor member of a product line with the top instrument being the 4 string tenor. and the line of banjos including a 4 string plectrum banjos, a mando banjo and sometimes a melody banjo ( a 4 string version of a mandolin banjo).
The 5 string under contemporary designs really are high pitched and do not have the bass that a guitar has or that the pre-1880s lower pitched banjos had
Bluegrass banjo were designed to have high pitch for that reason and to accentuate the ringing treble that all the banjo designers in the late 19th and early 20th century sought. They are designed so that the banjo rings the best from the notes you play on the treble strings and the higher up the neck you play.
They do not provide a wide support at the pitches that the human voice plays widely at. This is one reason among many why since the 1920s, guitars which have much ,more of a bass side and strength have replaced the banjo in many forms of music. In earlier years, banjos were once more widespread and popular than guitars.
All of this is very practical. The key is to find someone who plays bluegrass banjo or sings bluegrass that you can talk to and sit down with you or zoom with you. Bluegrass people, especially banjo players, are the friendliest people on Earth, especially if you want to both sing bluegrass and play bluegrass. Find someone near where you are.
Do not be shy. Bluegrass people and banjo players are both looking for new members of the tribe. Do not be afraid of seeming stupid. Anyone good at singing and Bluegrass has done dumber things than you can imagine. Singers do tend to be a bit vain, but if they play the banjo too, they wont be.
Bluegrass is not a folk music that people just picked up. It was invented by musical genius Bill Monroe when he was a performing at the top of show business on the Grand Ole Opry. The banjo playing was invented by another genius Earl Scruggs who from being a small child wanted to play the banjo to memorialize his banjo picking father who passed when Earl was only 8 years old. I
It all takes learning. You are young., I am 78 and at the stage that half the things I have learned I will forget. Find bluegrass players where you are who can talk to you and make friends and show you stuff.
Jams are often too competitive and noisy. But Bluegrass people and banjo players are among the most generous people in the world especially to someone who wants to join the club. Welcome !!
Edited by - writerrad on 01/12/2026 18:18:44
Owen - Posted - 01/12/2026: 18:09:20
Mention having been made of the voice being an instrument, I figure it's as good (?) a time as any for some thread drift.
While acknowledging that "better" is a little bit subjective... anybody here sound better a cappella than with back-up of some sort?
My exposure/experience is fairly limited, but I can't think of any individual [or recording of an individual] that I've heard where the singing sounds better without accompaniment.
chuckv97 - Posted - 01/12/2026: 18:26:57
quote:
Originally posted by OwenMention having been made of the voice being an instrument, I figure it's as good (?) a time as any for some thread drift.
While acknowledging that "better" is a little bit subjective... anybody here sound better a cappella than with back-up of some sort?
My exposure/experience is fairly limited, but I can't think of any individual [or recording of an individual] that I've heard where the singing sounds better without accompaniment.
How's about Roger Doucette? ..... or did he have organ accompaniment?
Nopix - Posted - 01/12/2026: 19:17:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by NopixI wouldn't attend a jam with a "leader." Sandbox rules are what a real jam is all about.
Sandbox rules... like what, there's no head person and every one just contributes as they desire? Not familiar with the term.
When you're in a jam with complete strangers, hopefully you are exhibiting your best, most polite, self.
Owen - Posted - 01/12/2026: 19:47:09
Tongue-in-cheek, I think it might go better with Hudson Bay Rules. 
[I was previously unaware of "sandbox rules," and was actually speculating along the lines of HBR. Thanks... makes sense.]
Mickhammer - Posted - 01/12/2026: 23:08:31
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by Mickhammer
Caveat: I've never been to one of these jams. I did one or two jams with rock musicians, not a fun experience for a singer!
Oh man I was really soaking up your constructive criticisms until I got to this post. Back of the line buddy!
I can't speak about jam etiquette, yes. But I've been singing longer than some of you have been born. And when I sing, people stop and listen. You'll have to trust me on this. (Although I'm living in France, it's easier here - it'd be different if I were in Ireland or England where everyone it seems is an excellent singer.)
Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/13/2026: 04:12:24
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoI was once told that if you can talk, you can sing. That got me started. I had no idea about voice range or projecting my voice and at first I wasn't very good. After taking some singing lessons, I did learn how to figure out what key was best in what song for my voice. Many people think they can sing all songs in just one key and for most of us, that doesn't work. I also learned to project my voice (projecting is not yelling it's singing using the diaphragam to enhance).
If you're not happy with your singing, maybe a few voice lessons would help IF you can find a good teacher and IF you can afford them.Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
Most jammers, unless they are beginners, understand that the vocalist has the say on key so they usually just capo up or down and go with the flow. In bluegrass, there's not a whole lot of changing tuning, just capoing to whatever key is called.
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/13/2026: 07:37:20
quote:
Originally posted by Mickhammerquote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by Mickhammer
Caveat: I've never been to one of these jams. I did one or two jams with rock musicians, not a fun experience for a singer!
Oh man I was really soaking up your constructive criticisms until I got to this post. Back of the line buddy!
I can't speak about jam etiquette, yes. But I've been singing longer than some of you have been born. And when I sing, people stop and listen. You'll have to trust me on this. (Although I'm living in France, it's easier here - it'd be different if I were in Ireland or England where everyone it seems is an excellent singer.)
I don't doubt this but now you have me really interested in hearing you... do you have any links to audio or video?
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/13/2026: 07:40:44
quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjoquote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoI was once told that if you can talk, you can sing. That got me started. I had no idea about voice range or projecting my voice and at first I wasn't very good. After taking some singing lessons, I did learn how to figure out what key was best in what song for my voice. Many people think they can sing all songs in just one key and for most of us, that doesn't work. I also learned to project my voice (projecting is not yelling it's singing using the diaphragam to enhance).
If you're not happy with your singing, maybe a few voice lessons would help IF you can find a good teacher and IF you can afford them.Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
Most jammers, unless they are beginners, understand that the vocalist has the say on key so they usually just capo up or down and go with the flow. In bluegrass, there's not a whole lot of changing tuning, just capoing to whatever key is called.
Right, but if I need to go down to lets say F for a G major song, I couldn't capo "down" or past the nut toward the peghead, I'd have to change all my strings to F major tuning. Going up to A or B would be OK though with a capo, at fret 2 or 4 in Standard G tuning.
This is in relation to the question of straining my voice in a G song where high G is a bit difficult for me to reach, vocally.
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 01/13/2026: 07:57:22
I think your banjo break sticks to the traditional melody for this song (the Dorian or whatever version), but your singing deviates from it. If you sing the notes you played, the highest pitch you’ll sing will be an F, top line of the treble clef, third fret of the 1st string. At the beginning of the third line. I think it’s well within your range.
earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 01/13/2026: 08:00:46
And not to be picky but there are hundreds of major key bluegrass songs that would be easier for others to play a break on and follow the chords.
chuckv97 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 08:06:18
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjoquote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoI was once told that if you can talk, you can sing. That got me started. I had no idea about voice range or projecting my voice and at first I wasn't very good. After taking some singing lessons, I did learn how to figure out what key was best in what song for my voice. Many people think they can sing all songs in just one key and for most of us, that doesn't work. I also learned to project my voice (projecting is not yelling it's singing using the diaphragam to enhance).
If you're not happy with your singing, maybe a few voice lessons would help IF you can find a good teacher and IF you can afford them.Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
Most jammers, unless they are beginners, understand that the vocalist has the say on key so they usually just capo up or down and go with the flow. In bluegrass, there's not a whole lot of changing tuning, just capoing to whatever key is called.
Right, but if I need to go down to lets say F for a G major song, I couldn't capo "down" or past the nut toward the peghead, I'd have to change all my strings to F major tuning. Going up to A or B would be OK though with a capo, at fret 2 or 4 in Standard G tuning.
This is in relation to the question of straining my voice in a G song where high G is a bit difficult for me to reach, vocally.
In F one can capo at the 3td fret and play out of D position or capo5 and play out of C position. This is why most banjo players learn to play tunes other that open G.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 01/13/2026 08:06:55
RB-1 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 08:08:13
quote:
Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
Most jammers, unless they are beginners, understand that the vocalist has the say on key so they usually just capo up or down and go with the flow. In bluegrass, there's not a whole lot of changing tuning, just capoing to whatever key is called.
Right, but if I need to go down to lets say F for a G major song, I couldn't capo "down" or past the nut toward the peghead, I'd have to change all my strings to F major tuning. Going up to A or B would be OK though with a capo, at fret 2 or 4 in Standard G tuning.
This is in relation to the question of straining my voice in a G song where high G is a bit difficult for me to reach, vocally.
Therefore, Bluegrass players should at least master the keys of G, C & D from open G tuning.
All other keys will be available with capoing between frets 0-4 and spiking the 5th accordingly from 5-8 or, in case of D positions, 7-10.
Edited by - RB-1 on 01/13/2026 08:11:04
Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/13/2026: 08:09:14
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjoquote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoI was once told that if you can talk, you can sing. That got me started. I had no idea about voice range or projecting my voice and at first I wasn't very good. After taking some singing lessons, I did learn how to figure out what key was best in what song for my voice. Many people think they can sing all songs in just one key and for most of us, that doesn't work. I also learned to project my voice (projecting is not yelling it's singing using the diaphragam to enhance).
If you're not happy with your singing, maybe a few voice lessons would help IF you can find a good teacher and IF you can afford them.Good advice thanks Sherry. Curious what happens to the faces of the jammers if you ask them to change keys BELOW their current tuning?
Most jammers, unless they are beginners, understand that the vocalist has the say on key so they usually just capo up or down and go with the flow. In bluegrass, there's not a whole lot of changing tuning, just capoing to whatever key is called.
Right, but if I need to go down to lets say F for a G major song, I couldn't capo "down" or past the nut toward the peghead, I'd have to change all my strings to F major tuning. Going up to A or B would be OK though with a capo, at fret 2 or 4 in Standard G tuning.
This is in relation to the question of straining my voice in a G song where high G is a bit difficult for me to reach, vocally.
You could also capo up 4 and play out of C, F, G chords or capo up 3 and play out of D, F, A cords. Please note I don't have my banjo handy, so might have goofed on the capo up to. I very seldom play out of F, so that's not one I'm really familar with. No need to retune the banjo.
Instead of trying to sing in F, try going down to E or D and see if that's still in your voice range. Much easier then to capo the banjo, too.
Edited by - Texasbanjo on 01/13/2026 08:11:26
stevo58 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 12:21:23
You know, vocal coaching won’t turn you into an operatic tenor. If you have a good teacher, though, the exercises will expand your range; you’ll sing with more power and confidence; you’ll hit the notes more reliably. If you are serious about singing, join a choir and the experience of singing classical and show repertoire will do wonders. You haven’t been challenged with singing until you’ve sung a twelve-tone piece, with no recognizable key, patterns, or melody. Sing sing sing. In front of people. Learn to take criticism about your voice. It’s probably better than you think, but not as good as you hope. Sing in the car and on your bike. Record yourself and listen honestly. Learn how to breathe (this was mentioned earlier).
I will say bluegrass high harmony is h*** on my (baritone) voice and it hurts if I do it too long. But I’m working on it.
chuckv97 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 12:27:55
John Duffy, a great BG tenor, was the offspring of an opera singer. He sang from the dye-a-fram.
jdeluke137 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 16:30:38
Here’s what I’ve found. Some songs that I can’t sing in G, because it’s too high, I can sing in B or C due to the what the melody goes. I don’t know enough about vocals to explain why, but it’s true nonetheless. So if G won’t work I try C first because for my voice that typically works.
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/13/2026: 17:48:40
quote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137Here’s what I’ve found. Some songs that I can’t sing in G, because it’s too high, I can sing in B or C due to the what the melody goes. I don’t know enough about vocals to explain why, but it’s true nonetheless. So if G won’t work I try C first because for my voice that typically works.
Speaking of C. I know Turkey in the Straw in C and love singing the goofy lyrics that go with it. Folk song type stuff. But in the chorus "turkey in the hay" it goes up to the 10th fret F major bar, which is really way too high for my voice, so I just fudge it. If I really wanted to get serious with the song though, I think I need to take it down several keys for comfort. Or is fudging a bar or 2 in a bluegrass jam setting OK, since no one can likely hear me anyway?
jdeluke137 - Posted - 01/13/2026: 18:23:57
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137Here’s what I’ve found. Some songs that I can’t sing in G, because it’s too high, I can sing in B or C due to the what the melody goes. I don’t know enough about vocals to explain why, but it’s true nonetheless. So if G won’t work I try C first because for my voice that typically works.
Speaking of C. I know Turkey in the Straw in C and love singing the goofy lyrics that go with it. Folk song type stuff. But in the chorus "turkey in the hay" it goes up to the 10th fret F major bar, which is really way too high for my voice, so I just fudge it. If I really wanted to get serious with the song though, I think I need to take it down several keys for comfort. Or is fudging a bar or 2 in a bluegrass jam setting OK, since no one can likely hear me anyway?
If by fudging you mean dropping down an octave so it fits your range then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
eagleisland - Posted - 01/14/2026: 16:15:13
Okay, so I have only casually been following this thread, and have no doubt blasted by some good counsel. Let me offer this:
The voice is an instrument, and should be treated as such. That means that as much attention should be paid to practicing the voice as should be paid to any other instrument. And that practice should reflect solid understanding of biomechanics, technique, and the effect the musician is trying to convey. It should be practiced regularly and carefully, and warmed-up before performances.
I am fortunate - I started singing in a church choir at age nine, and started performing in amateur musical theater at 12. Both the choir director and the music director at the theater understood voice training. They knew how to teach us how to breathe in such a way that we could power our voices to the back row, with a bit more to spare. That's not actually that complicated - as long as someone teaches you how to do it by controlling how you breathe, both in and out. I learned this as a kid, and the technique stays with me to this day.
The voice is controlled by vocal chords and muscles. Muscles can be strengthened. Vocal chords can be destroyed. Mess with either and we fail, potentially permanently.
Once we learn to sing powerfully and sustainably without damaging the instrument, then it's all about control of pitch. This is where license comes in. Some of the greatest and most successful singers ever didn't have impressive pitch. Bob Dylan has a musically lousy voice. So did Tom Petty. Roy Orbison's voice dripped honey, warmth and sadness - how could you not love it? In bluegrass world, Alison Krauss, Dale Ann Bradley, Keith Whitley and others had voices so pure you would beg for the next note, whereas Lester Flatt sang in an everyman voice that wasn't perfect, but was so affable it didn't matter. ALL OF THEM COULD SELL THE SONG. All of them could tell a story by singing in such a way that you totally bought into the story the song was telling. And they could all do it for ten shows a week.
It doesn't matter if we're pitch-perfect or not, unless your singing opera or backup for big bucks. It's about getting people to believe in the song, and connect with the listener, in such a way that the singer still has the ability to do it all again the next night, and the night after that.
Edited by - eagleisland on 01/14/2026 16:20:40
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/20/2026: 18:01:33
quote:
Originally posted by eagleislandAll of them could tell a story by singing in such a way that you totally bought into the story the song was telling. And they could all do it for ten shows a week.
It doesn't matter if we're pitch-perfect or not, unless your singing opera or backup for big bucks. It's about getting people to believe in the song, and connect with the listener, in such a way that the singer still has the ability to do it all again the next night, and the night after that.
Love this.
bradlaird - Posted - 01/21/2026: 16:15:44
I know that I covered this in one or more of my legendary podcast episodes. I think this is the one that would be most helpful.
bradleylaird.com/podcast/episo...otes.html
steve davis - Posted - 01/21/2026: 20:04:19
The more time you spend singing the better at it you get.
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/22/2026: 17:12:18
quote:
Originally posted by bradlairdI know that I covered this in one or more of my legendary podcast episodes. I think this is the one that would be most helpful.
bradleylaird.com/podcast/episo...otes.html
Thanks but I couldn't figure out which part of the 1-hour podcast relates to this. I also could not find the 3x speed button on my player. I may circle back if I have more time.
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/23/2026: 10:35:59
quote:
Originally posted by The Eclectic Banjoquote:
Originally posted by bradlairdI know that I covered this in one or more of my legendary podcast episodes. I think this is the one that would be most helpful.
bradleylaird.com/podcast/episo...otes.htmlThanks but I couldn't figure out which part of the 1-hour podcast relates to this. I also could not find the 3x speed button on my player. I may circle back if I have more time.
I would like to retract my previous post. I did listen to the podcast and I thank you for your contribution. Points you made have definitely rounded out my perspective on the matter of evaluating whether a jam with or without a mic would be deemed superior to its counterpart.
stevedenver - Posted - 01/26/2026: 10:25:49
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglasquote:
Originally posted by pinenutIt appears that you are singing from the throat or mouth.
Sing from your gut; engage the diaphragm and stand-up too.
Are you a music teacher or maybe a vocalist? It might help him to know what area of expertise you are coming from. Otherwise he might think you're just a guy throwing stuff at the wall...
I'm sure you must have some unique experience to give such specific advice to a guy you've never met or heard in person.
Thanks.
?/?
he asked for tips.
for those who have had vocal training, low volume is often due to inadequate breath support.
not sure why the dig. Its great advice.
doesnt take a rocket surgeon....
stevo58 - Posted - 01/27/2026: 03:00:23
quote:
Originally posted by stevedenverquote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglasquote:
Originally posted by pinenutIt appears that you are singing from the throat or mouth.
Sing from your gut; engage the diaphragm and stand-up too.
Are you a music teacher or maybe a vocalist? It might help him to know what area of expertise you are coming from. Otherwise he might think you're just a guy throwing stuff at the wall...
I'm sure you must have some unique experience to give such specific advice to a guy you've never met or heard in person.
Thanks.
?/?
he asked for tips.
for those who have had vocal training, low volume is often due to inadequate breath support.
not sure why the dig. Its great advice.
doesnt take a rocket surgeon....
Yeah, proper breathing is an important part of vocal training, it makes a huge difference.
Mark Douglas - Posted - 01/28/2026: 06:19:37
quote:
Originally posted by stevo58quote:
Originally posted by stevedenverquote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglasquote:
Originally posted by pinenutIt appears that you are singing from the throat or mouth.
Sing from your gut; engage the diaphragm and stand-up too.
Are you a music teacher or maybe a vocalist? It might help him to know what area of expertise you are coming from. Otherwise he might think you're just a guy throwing stuff at the wall...
I'm sure you must have some unique experience to give such specific advice to a guy you've never met or heard in person.
Thanks.
?/?
he asked for tips.
for those who have had vocal training, low volume is often due to inadequate breath support.
not sure why the dig. Its great advice.
doesnt take a rocket surgeon....
Yeah, proper breathing is an important part of vocal training, it makes a huge difference.
A simple display of ignorance here.
One cannot determine correct or incorrect breathing from a video alone! The teacher/instructor needs to be with the vocalist in person to properly assess what needs correcting. I know two vocal instructors and they can confirm this.
I will ask stevo58 and stevedenver:
Are either of you vocalists, vocal instructors or have any specialized training in vocal music?
Edited by - Mark Douglas on 01/28/2026 06:21:05
stevo58 - Posted - 01/28/2026: 06:54:35
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglasquote:
Originally posted by stevo58quote:
Originally posted by stevedenverquote:
Originally posted by Mark Douglasquote:
Originally posted by pinenutIt appears that you are singing from the throat or mouth.
Sing from your gut; engage the diaphragm and stand-up too.
Are you a music teacher or maybe a vocalist? It might help him to know what area of expertise you are coming from. Otherwise he might think you're just a guy throwing stuff at the wall...
I'm sure you must have some unique experience to give such specific advice to a guy you've never met or heard in person.
Thanks.
?/?
he asked for tips.
for those who have had vocal training, low volume is often due to inadequate breath support.
not sure why the dig. Its great advice.
doesnt take a rocket surgeon....
Yeah, proper breathing is an important part of vocal training, it makes a huge difference.
A simple display of ignorance here.
One cannot determine correct or incorrect breathing from a video alone! The teacher/instructor needs to be with the vocalist in person to properly assess what needs correcting. I know two vocal instructors and they can confirm this.
I will ask stevo58 and stevedenver:
Are either of you vocalists, vocal instructors or have any specialized training in vocal music?
I am a vocalist. I have had vocal coaching for the past ten years. I was not commenting on whether or not the person in question needed instruction in breathing, only that it is a fundamental part of vocal instruction. However, proper breathing is not automatic, it is a skill that has to be developed. Breathing for singing is not the same as breathing for oxygen. Just as playing a forward roll is not the same as drumming your fingers on the table. Wind players also have to learn circular breathing, it's an essential technique.
Edited by - stevo58 on 01/28/2026 07:02:28
stevedenver - Posted - 01/29/2026: 14:11:48
I am a vocalist. Coaching past 7 years. Opera and musical theatre. Berklee, a bit, too. Not a pro. Not a vocal teacher. But, ive had a good deal of training.
I listened to ops video.
Its such a basic physical skill. I sing and play with lots of folks, ages, genders.
It is such a common issue, and, a very common solution. To pitch, stability, vocal health and volume, to name a few.
whoever commented that OP was singing from his throat could hear the same quality as others of us.
And, OP asked how to sing above a band.
It was good advice given in goodwill.
not meant as a one line tutorial, but as a heads up.
perhaps, if OP us serious and has the wherewithal, he will get some coaching.
While everyone likes an 'attaboy, keep up the good work" it really doesn't help with OPs question.
Whether you are aware of it, i dont know, but your posts appear pretty condescending.
Fwiw, many teachers teach via video lessons, not always in person....
Edited by - stevedenver on 01/29/2026 14:27:37
The Eclectic Banjo - Posted - 01/29/2026: 17:17:09
FWIW, as the OP, I am appreciating all comers' comments. I tend to appreciate more the "this is what you can do to improve" comments over the "good job" comments because I know I stink at singing - having no formal training whatsoever, as previously stated. I posted my song with vocals primarily as a way to improve, not necessarily to get a pat on the back (of course those are always appreciated).
Having said that, I meet with an Alexander Technique teacher over Zoom from time to time. I've been doing lessons with her for years. I see her primarily for bodily/muscular tension and relaxation related issues but in my most recent lesson with her, I had a *head smack* moment in which I learned (or perhaps I knew it all along and just forgot) that she is a singer! She's been singing since she was a little girl and she sings professionally and also a lot of her students as an AT Teacher are in the performing arts.
So long story short, I will now be meeting with her to improve my vocal capabilities!
She's offered some good advice thus far too. She says that when I sing with "Feeling" it obviously goes a long way to connecting with the audience, but she also rephrased the advice when people say "sing from the diaphragm and not the mouth". She noticed that I was subconsciously increasing muscular tension in my jaw, neck, and upper torso as I was singing verses over and over to her. The tenseness in my body is muting my sound output, which mutes my harmonic range, the ability to lay down vocals that really resonate around the room, etc. She mentioned that AT methods such as inhibiting and directing can help improve these quirks (straight from FM Alexander's experiential learning himself no doubt).
PM me if anyone would like her info btw. She lives in NYC but like I said she does Zoom lessons too.
stevedenver - Posted - 01/30/2026: 06:27:28
Attaboy! Lol
Very cool to know you’re taking action.
Singing is so wonderful.
Itll change your musical life.
RB3 - Posted - 01/30/2026: 07:25:26
If you want to be heard, don't participate in jams that include more than one of each of the "Bluegrass instruments". That's the way God and Bill Monroe intended that the music be played.
Be proactive about being friendly with Bluegrass jam musicians you meet who don't play the banjo. Approach them with the idea of getting together to play privately.
Before long, you'll have your own band, and you'll be invited to become members of the Grand Ole Opry. Don't quit your day job until after you get the Grand Ole Opry membership invitation.
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