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lazlototh - Posted - 02/04/2025: 05:13:59
Long winters in Maine gets me into the shop after mulling over design ideas.
Corian pots, which I have posted about before, as have others, have some unique aspects to them.
Being quite dense, they sound good. They are not at all resonant but I suspect their density makes up for that and offers a somewhat similar sound to metal tone rings.
That being said, they also are thermoformable.
There have been countless prototypes, some good and some bad.
I started out with conventional Gibson style pots which are all in one. There in one on BH Marketplace.
This has evolved into this most recent one. Just strung it up last night. The pot wood is white ash.
I will post a video later tonight or tomorrow. I have some small tweaks I want to make.
Tom in Maine
Edited by - lazlototh on 02/04/2025 05:27:47
tonygo - Posted - 02/04/2025: 06:19:10
Interesting. Would you put up a YouTube vid of one being played in various styles?
lazlototh - Posted - 02/04/2025: 06:49:45
Will do.
I do three finger and Seeger style. Will try to sound like frailing but no promises. You will get the idea.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/04/2025: 16:39:24
I am doing some minor changes to the banjo I posted this morning. And am trying to sort out posting a video I just made of another Corian banjo.
In the meantime, here is Max Wareham playing one similar to the one posted this morning, last September at the Strung Together Old Time Music Festival in Searsport, Maine.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/04/2025: 17:03:56
This is a Gibson style Corian pot. Did this about a year ago before heading down to the current design.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/06/2025: 03:03:30
More video.
B0bIII - Posted - 02/06/2025: 07:36:40
Why no rim?
lazlototh - Posted - 02/06/2025: 12:33:15
Thank you for asking!
Why keep a rim?
The first Corian pots were with an integral rim. They sound very good and are not too complicated to make. Then, I had to add the standard tension hoop, Gibson flange, 24 hooks and nuts, Gibson resonator and co-rods and misc. hardware. It adds up.
Cost is a lot less on this design. Less wood, no steam bending. A lot less hardware. And in case you shop banjo parts, the quality is not always great, still with a premium price.
I always thought the work Ken LeVan did on his rimless banjo was impressive. The rim requires a curved resonator to project the sound out for bluegrass for louder playing. The open side eliminates that.
I fully recognize that if it ain't Gibson, it ain't going to sell but this is something different that works and the more I scratch it, the more it itches.
Edited by - lazlototh on 02/06/2025 12:44:18
Brett - Posted - 02/06/2025: 13:37:35
Sounds good!
zz4350 - Posted - 02/06/2025: 17:00:03
Have enjoyed looking over the progression of the corian tone rings. Your latest version with the open side pot assembly is very open air sounding and won't work well for hard bluegrass in my thinking. Your earlier version sounded better for bluegrass but is more inline with an arch top sound. Weight is an issue, but to get a really good sound for bluegrass your will need some weight. I would love to have a corian tone ring made for a flat top design with full block rim. To keep weight down make the tone ring solid corian but kind of like like a stelling ring but not a wedge fit so you could use a tone hoop style rim and machine an outside groove to fit the ring in it to save weight. The right balance might work for bluegrass with lower weight AND great volume and tone. I had a great Ty Piper top tension with a set up like I'm describing but was heavy as s***.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/06/2025: 18:04:55
My good friend and Corian partner in crime, Dick Guggenheim, put a Corian ring on a wood block rim. He feels it is one of the best banjos he has heard.
I have relied on Dick to help me figure what sounds good. It is challenging to do since he is in CT and I am in Maine, but he has heard a lot more great instruments than I ever will. FaceTime, fortunately, is free.
My hesitancy in making one (but I probably will) is I am frustrated by the cost and quality of good components. My goal is to make something different enough to minimize cost and be lighter. This might not be possible.
The good (or maybe bad) news is there are a lot of variables in banjos that we can mess with. My shop is littered with many things that just did not work.
Speaking of which, here are some things that are not so good.
Corian pot with a flat resonator has way too much sustain. It had sound holes in the side of the pot.
A Corian resonator did not work well. I will be trying one with the current design but will be adding weight.
Hardwood plywood flat resonators are not as loud with this design.
Conventional resonators are about the same as the flat hardwood ones I make.
I have one more older prototype I will post soon. It is an open back, open side, top tension that has a magnetic resonator to snap in place.
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/06/2025: 18:39:42
though I play my arch top a lot--I still play some flat head--I would like to hear it with an 11 inch head--a soft resonator would be better imo--Dick used to hang out here--
Tractor1 - Posted - 02/06/2025: 18:46:07
ok I just saw your vids with the 11 inch head size--very interesting tone--clear notes
Edited by - Tractor1 on 02/06/2025 18:47:36
lazlototh - Posted - 02/07/2025: 17:30:34
Since I was asked, I put together a wood rim banjo with a Corian tone ring. Compared to two others. Once again, my apologies for my playing. Age is catching up with my brain and fingers. (Is that a good excuse for not enough practice?)
youtu.be/tBJka6CEjkc
lazlototh - Posted - 02/14/2025: 18:03:37
How much Corian is too much? I decided to try using Corian as a resonator. The most recent one had ash. Also made some with oak. I preferred the oak.
The density of Corian had me wondering.
Yesterday it snowed all day, so I was alone at work and spent a day making banjo bits. I will be offering some Corian tone rings soon on BH.
The "fins" are ash since I had it on hand.
I have strung this one up but need to adjust the action. Video this weekend. More snow coming so I will be in the shop on this.
Some interesting numbers. The ash rim with Corian tone ring weighs 7.4#. The same banjo with a Corian resonator is 9.1#
Edited by - lazlototh on 02/14/2025 18:05:38
atracksler - Posted - 02/14/2025: 18:21:00
I love this design. I had made some corian bridges a while ago when I was woodworking, thought they sounded great.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/20/2025: 14:52:46
In some ways it seems like I am reinventing the wheel. I have done similar things over the years in the other businesses I have been involved in. New materials can possibly fit well with older designs.
So, in keeping with that, I have been wondering about a side wall to the Corian (or wood) resonator. I have made several different Corian tone ringed banjos with conventional resonators.
The only thing to do was to add a sidewall to the most recent banjo that has the Corian resonator. I did not want to make the sidewall from Corian for now. Nor wood.
I used some cellular PVC I had from some home project. It is fast and easy. Actually too fast since it softens at a much much lower temperature than Corian. And of course, I put it in the Corian oven. Almost set the PVC on fire but saved it just in time.
Anyway, here are some photos. The sound is a bit better and even louder since it is reflected up and out.
And I like the look. Maybe not in PVC but the concept is a start.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/24/2025: 05:24:39
Next step: Corian resonator. Will be finishing this up this week in another instrument. From just piecing things together with tape, it is quite loud with a Corian sidewall. A resonator with a sidewall, DUH! Who'd a thunkit!
I am liking the look. Some tweaks will have to be made to the basic instrument. I will be posting more once it is together in a couple days.
Still a manageable weight. We will be using a thinner stock soon to keep the weight down.
awildman - Posted - 02/26/2025: 10:47:37
How is the material cost?
lazlototh - Posted - 02/26/2025: 12:19:45
It is not too expensive. Finding what I want is another story. You have to purchase it in sheets 30"x12'. That is not cheap.
At present I am working with leftovers from a shop I know.
If I was purchasing it, I would mostly use more traditional colors.
I do, however, like some of the wild stuff!
They do make sparkley Grich stuff.
lazlototh - Posted - 02/27/2025: 17:40:01
I think this is the 19th banjo using Corian I have made. This, as mentioned earlier, has a more traditional looking resonator.
The wood "fins" support the tone ring and allow a clearer path for sound.
I will post video tomorrow. This is the best sounding so far. Of course, some of these have no resonators and most offer different sounds with subtle differences, all of which have been decent.
Now that I think of it, this is number 20. I had one that got taken apart and rebuilt. There was too much sustain.
The next one will probably be similar but with thinner Corian on the resonator.
I did some quick and dirty bridges that did not sound good. Will try again.
BlueMountain - Posted - 03/07/2025: 05:48:43
quote:
Originally posted by lazlototh
Long winters in Maine gets me into the shop after mulling over design ideas.
Corian pots, which I have posted about before, as have others, have some unique aspects to them.
Being quite dense, they sound good. They are not at all resonant but I suspect their density makes up for that and offers a somewhat similar sound to metal tone rings.
That being said, they also are thermoformable.
There have been countless prototypes, some good and some bad.
I started out with conventional Gibson style pots which are all in one. There in one on BH Marketplace.
This has evolved into this most recent one. Just strung it up last night. The pot wood is white ash.
I will post a video later tonight or tomorrow. I have some small tweaks I want to make.
Tom in Maine
Nice work! I like having six tensioners instead of 24! Where do you find those? That really cuts the excess weight.
In my experience, most companies that sell Corian pronounce is COREian, not Korean.
lazlototh - Posted - 03/07/2025: 06:19:33
Thanks,
I think I pronounce it correctly, if not, you get the idea!
Found the hoop through a drum company. They are quite strong.
Just got some 1/4" Corian for a lighter resonator. Will post more soon.
lazlototh - Posted - 04/08/2025: 18:24:30
It has been a while since posting anything. I have been busy getting in material and working on design changes to bring the weight down while not affecting tone.
Corian instruments are generally a bit lighter than standard bluegrass banjos but they can have some heft to them.
The latest are using Corian for resonators and are about 7#. Our perception is that the Corian being so dense and rigid tends to reflect sound better since it is not vibrating like a thin conventional wood resonator. This is what we hear. Of course, these things are subjective.
While doing this stuff, we are also working to get some samples out in the field. I will update you as we get feedback, good or bad.
I will save the details until we hear from folks.
Next one will be with some modification of pot dimensions. I am also going to put together a much lighter pot with standard Gibson style flange and tension hoop. Unfortunately, the hoop and flange are not light but there are folks who prefer that look. I know we can shave at least two pounds off the weight. Anyway, video link and photos are here.
Edited by - lazlototh on 04/08/2025 18:25:57
