R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 04/02/2024:  15:20:08

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone mention Clifton Hicks here.  I'm sure they have and I just missed it.  He's such a great player that I'd be surprised if he's been overlooked.

Anyway, he's rapidly become one of my favorite players.  

Clifton Hicks - Hustling Gamblers - Country Blues - False Hearted Lovers Blues - Dock Boggs (youtube.com)

banjered - Posted - 04/02/2024:  15:34:49

Yep, you missed him, many appearances here on BHO but a little M.I.A. lately. Great music! banjered

thisoldman - Posted - 04/02/2024:  16:03:30

I see his contributions mostly in the media (video) section of the HO. Not so much in the forums.

Tim Jumper - Posted - 04/02/2024:  16:16:18

I concur, R.D.
He makes the old banjer sit up and speak.

Will Frady - Posted - 04/02/2024:  17:24:18

I like his version of oh death ! Mr. Hicks is the real thing .

Culloden - Posted - 04/02/2024:  17:48:42

He is a member here but his account is locked.
I have seen him post before but not lately. I still see his videos on YouTube from time to time.

Fultoncreek - Posted - 04/02/2024:  19:26:32

Clifton is one of my favorites. He's got a great banjo lick, and the way he makes it work with his singing makes it better yet.

TheLastWord - Posted - 04/02/2024:  19:35:17

One of my favorite players. I follow him on YouTube, a Patreon member, and his two finger playing got me started in that direction.
I think his archaeologist job has kept his busy lately.

Mad Hornet - Posted - 04/02/2024:  20:40:20

He was an outstanding contributor here. But he composed and performed a pretty cool tune, "The Ballad of Kyle Rittenhouse." and some folks here lost their minds.

KCJones - Posted - 04/03/2024:  05:21:41

He's arguably the best musician today playing actual traditional banjo music. Heck, he's one of the only visible/popular artists playing it at all.

Unfortunately the Leftist Internet Hate Machine has focused on him quite a bit, there's basically a hit squad out there that attacks him anytime he posts publicly, so he mostly stays off social media. But he's fairly active on his Patreon and other channels.

35planar - Posted - 04/03/2024:  07:35:04

He posted his song "Ballad of Kyle Rittenhouse" and hasn't been back on BHO since. He seems to be doing well on his web page. This isn't a political statement in any way: liberal, conservative, the UFO Party, or the John Birch Tree Party. Apparently it was his decision to concentrate on his web presence. This site is about the love of banjos and there is a wide variety of beliefs on this site. There are a million forums for politics. No matter what our beliefs are, banjos and music bring us together. This is the Banjo Hangout forum, one of the oldest continuous forums in the history of the internet. It deserves care for the respite and creative spark it provides us. Thanks to the Administrators, Webmasters, and the Members for that.

Edited by - 35planar on 04/03/2024 07:36:10

Eulalie - Posted - 04/03/2024:  07:52:34

quote:

Originally posted by R.D. LuncefordI don't know that I've ever heard anyone mention Clifton Hicks here. I'm sure they have and I just missed it. He's such a great player that I'd be surprised if he's been overlooked

 

Good to see your post here, R.D. Likewise, I discovered Clifton's music more recently and have grown to appreciate his style, his dedication to the tradition, and his independent mode of presentation.  I have been off this forum for several years, probably for reasons similar to his, but it should be all about the instrument and the music.

Mike Thompson - Posted - 04/03/2024:  09:29:06

I’ve been following him on his YouTube channel for a few years. His music is authentic. He’s one of the 2F players that have inspired my 2F journey.

gratefulbiker - Posted - 04/03/2024:  12:24:29

Clifton is certainly a great player/ singer and his dedication to the old school playing styles is without question.
Unfortunately, he’s been his own worst enemy the last few years due to a fair amount of questionable behavior in other online banjo communities.
This includes homophobic and racist innuendo directed at several other online banjo personalities and the creation of numerous ghost accounts to further harass folks that didn’t agree with him. He also used the ghost accounts to post even more questionable content with the sole purpose of stirring the pot.
That stuff predated the Rittenhouse tune and had already started to affect his Patreon and YT subscriber numbers. The “Ballad” just ended up being the final nail for a lot of folks including his now former record label.
It’s all a shame really. Clifton was in a position to teach and pass along this traditional music to a large, diverse group of people but he let his personal prejudices get in the way and then doubled down on them when met with opposition.
Some people are comfortable separating the artist from the music, but Clifton crossed a line with a whole bunch of people and is now feeling the repercussions for his behavior.

GrahamHawker - Posted - 04/03/2024:  12:45:29

Last time he was on here instead of passing on his banjo knowledge, he was trolling real hard and making some disgusting comments. Hence he got banned again. I guess for some such behaviour is acceptable now he's one of us.

banjered - Posted - 04/03/2024:  13:12:20

I see his BHO is shut down by a moderator, doesn't say when or why. Is there some length to a suspension? I've seen a video or two of his when he "has had a few." Maybe that is part of the picture. He is former military – PTSD? I have my very strong political feelings as well but do my best to keep banjo, banjo here. I have lot's of friends spanning the whole political spectrum where I often have to remind myself that they have a good heart but maybe a little deficient in the head and let it be. They may think the same of me. Anyway, I'd be for inviting Clifton back to BHO. Whatsayyou? banjered

banjo bill-e - Posted - 04/03/2024:  13:38:00

He sang the Leadbelly song "Black Girl" using the original lyrics and some lost their minds over that.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/03/2024:  14:08:40

banjered

I doubt he'd be invited back. He was given numerous chances to follow the rules and he refused. He also had more than one account.

Eric A - Posted - 04/03/2024:  18:10:17

Trouble seemed to follow him everywhere he went online. After a while it became obvious it couldn't always be everybody else's fault.

Bill H - Posted - 04/04/2024:  02:29:49

I have no use for him.

ndlxs - Posted - 04/04/2024:  05:08:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by gratefulbiker

Clifton is certainly a great player/ singer and his dedication to the old school playing styles is without question.

Unfortunately, he’s been his own worst enemy the last few years due to a fair amount of questionable behavior in other online banjo communities.

 

He is a excellent banjo player and singer, that is beyond all doubt. However, his non-banjo playing ruminations are an excellent example of why one should heed Mark Twain's advice: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".  I really, really don't care about the beliefs of the musicians and artists I admire unless they insist I know.  Sure, that is their right to do so, but when I see something I don't like I turn them off like I turn out a light when I leave the room. 

rebolz - Posted - 04/05/2024:  07:50:59

Here's an interesting article from Symposeum Magazine featuring conversations between George Gibson and Clifton Hicks. symposeum.us/banjo-heritage/

EricKimball - Posted - 04/05/2024:  08:35:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by gratefulbiker

Clifton is certainly a great player/ singer and his dedication to the old school playing styles is without question.

Unfortunately, he’s been his own worst enemy the last few years due to a fair amount of questionable behavior in other online banjo communities.

This includes homophobic and racist innuendo directed at several other online banjo personalities and the creation of numerous ghost accounts to further harass folks that didn’t agree with him. He also used the ghost accounts to post even more questionable content with the sole purpose of stirring the pot.

That stuff predated the Rittenhouse tune and had already started to affect his Patreon and YT subscriber numbers. The “Ballad” just ended up being the final nail for a lot of folks including his now former record label.

It’s all a shame really. Clifton was in a position to teach and pass along this traditional music to a large, diverse group of people but he let his personal prejudices get in the way and then doubled down on them when met with opposition.

Some people are comfortable separating the artist from the music, but Clifton crossed a line with a whole bunch of people and is now feeling the repercussions for his behavior.

---

This is really useful and insightful background information, thanks for posting. I, myself, found it a bit surprising that his YouTube channel seemed very active but his engagement in other online spaces (like here) was lacking.

My opinion (we all know what those are worth) is that it seems pretty level-headed for the admins and moderators of this community to encourage kind and thoughtful engagement from their users. Part of encouraging kind and thoughtful engagement means dis-including some that are consistently failing to meet the standards of respectful engagement. Like you said, seems like a shame to have to decide between a skilled player and knowledgeable anthropologist or a community that encourages anyone interested to come engage with the art (free of harassment or hate). Seems like they made the right decision.

conic - Posted - 04/05/2024:  09:25:23

Clifton is a living legend and you are very lucky to have him in your country. There are many superb banjo pickers out the but not many that have something special like Clifton Hicks and Earl Scruggs.

Fultoncreek - Posted - 04/05/2024:  10:38:16

I hope this personal illustration isn't too far afield. When I was an academic, I had a division chair for several years who was kind, smart, well-intentioned, and in most contexts a fine communicator. She actually had a PhD in English, but her emails were were almost invariably offensive. For whatever reason it simply wasn't her medium, and eventually she quit writing them. It may be that discussion lists of this particular kind just aren't Clifton's strength. But I deeply admire his work, and I find his persona really engaging. Thankfully, even if BHO doesn't work out for him (like others, I appreciate our moderators' careful work), we can still have his YouTube and Patreon.

ChunoTheDog - Posted - 04/05/2024:  11:58:18

That's the beauty of a free society and freedom of expression. You are free to take or leave anything you like or dislike.

Clifton does what he wants. I don't think he stays awake at night thinking about the folks who dislike his music, personality or political leaning. He's clearly not in it for the facebook likes and gratuitous pats on the back from strangers on the internet.

csacwp - Posted - 04/05/2024:  12:25:14

Clifton is the real deal. A real gem in a world filled with typewriter / festival style banjoists.

hoodoo - Posted - 04/05/2024:  14:01:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by gratefulbiker

Clifton is certainly a great player/ singer and his dedication to the old school playing styles is without question.

Unfortunately, he’s been his own worst enemy the last few years due to a fair amount of questionable behavior in other online banjo communities.

This includes homophobic and racist innuendo directed at several other online banjo personalities and the creation of numerous ghost accounts to further harass folks that didn’t agree with him. He also used the ghost accounts to post even more questionable content with the sole purpose of stirring the pot.

That stuff predated the Rittenhouse tune and had already started to affect his Patreon and YT subscriber numbers. The “Ballad” just ended up being the final nail for a lot of folks including his now former record label.

It’s all a shame really. Clifton was in a position to teach and pass along this traditional music to a large, diverse group of people but he let his personal prejudices get in the way and then doubled down on them when met with opposition.

Some people are comfortable separating the artist from the music, but Clifton crossed a line with a whole bunch of people and is now feeling the repercussions for his behavior.

---

He also complained a lot about how others profit off the banjo for their own gain, meanwhile he has over 1700 followers on Patreon paying a minimum of a few dollars per month. Do the math.... I was a subscriber early on, but it bothered me that I was promised exclusive content and he would go posting all of his videos and lessons for free elsewhere a few minutes later. Maybe he has changed his strategies, but that + the needless political toxicity and I had enough. I still listen to his albums from time to time.

Nic Pennsylvania - Posted - 04/05/2024:  14:12:16

Clifton is a talented player and teacher. He is opinionated, and that's fine. He's been through some heavy stuff, and I wish the best for him.



But I've also seen the private conversations and attacks. Some of it was defensive, some of it (including all the fake accounts) was aggressive (and I cannot think of the Pink Panther without a shudder).



I shared some books with him some time back, and he sent me some bridges and whatnot. I hope he is able to do some repair, because he is worth public redemption. He is a talent and he is a human being. But he also needs to try to make amends to those he has hurt. It has nothing to do with his political views.



I do hope for the best for him. I know trauma, and I am aware of only some of the trauma he's been through. I don't like the idea of giving up on people and shunning them, I don't think it helps, but I have seen enough to understand why some people want to give him a wide berth.

Edited by - Nic Pennsylvania on 04/05/2024 14:25:24

Barnacle Joe - Posted - 04/06/2024:  05:35:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill H

I have no use for him.

---

Me neither.

s_ou_b - Posted - 04/06/2024:  05:52:14

I think Cliff is a fine player, though i would argue after learning more old time banjo, his approach is narrow, his sound is repetitive, and his song choice gets worse all the time.

I also still listen to his albums, fondly.

I'd say if he had "IT" he lost it a while back.

I would still recommend his videos on you tube if you are interested in two finger,
but really he is not the best teacher. He often says something like: "It's easy, figure it out"

So over all: meh

Pomeroy - Posted - 04/06/2024:  06:24:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by csacwp

Clifton is the real deal. A real gem in a world filled with typewriter / festival style banjoists.

---

Thank you for providing a smile and a laugh on this Saturday morning.

You have to love the humorous irony of a self-proclaimed 'classic' banjoist criticising the modern interpretation, 'artificiality' and generic nature of other banjo players. 

Edited by - Pomeroy on 04/06/2024 06:27:39

Stephen Rapp - Posted - 04/06/2024:  07:25:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by gratefulbiker

Clifton is certainly a great player/ singer and his dedication to the old school playing styles is without question.

Unfortunately, he’s been his own worst enemy the last few years due to a fair amount of questionable behavior in other online banjo communities.

This includes homophobic and racist innuendo directed at several other online banjo personalities and the creation of numerous ghost accounts to further harass folks that didn’t agree with him. He also used the ghost accounts to post even more questionable content with the sole purpose of stirring the pot.

That stuff predated the Rittenhouse tune and had already started to affect his Patreon and YT subscriber numbers. The “Ballad” just ended up being the final nail for a lot of folks including his now former record label.

It’s all a shame really. Clifton was in a position to teach and pass along this traditional music to a large, diverse group of people but he let his personal prejudices get in the way and then doubled down on them when met with opposition.

Some people are comfortable separating the artist from the music, but Clifton crossed a line with a whole bunch of people and is now feeling the repercussions for his behavior.

---

I can affirm that he is well known among some banjo players as being homophobic and racist. I have a few friends who are very successful musicians that were stalked and harassed with homophobic remarks and such from Clifton Hicks. He's even threatened one of my friends with physical violence. One of my friends kept the receipts of his remarks and I was able to see them.

I won't deny that Hicks has talent. I just think he's a pretty messed up dude. He sort of declares himself as the most authentic young banjo player and an authority on its history. He claims all the judges at festival contests don't know what banjo music is since he never came away a winner. It's no wonder you never see him playing with many other musicians. Behavior like that gets around and people don't want to be associated with him. I understand he has a big fan base. His fans either aren't aware of his behavior outside of his YouTube postings or don't mind that part of him. I personally want nothing to do with him. For all I know he may be reading this thread and decide I'm his next target. I've seen how he uses different names online or very subtle derivative names. I was suspicious of him well before I saw what he's written to others. The guy creeps me out.

plunkyjunkie - Posted - 04/06/2024:  07:50:59

Just to throw it out there... One of my favorite quotes goes something like, "Every living being is a universe unto themselves, It's complicated. Us vs Them is a bunch of B.S."-J.G.
And generally, i think as we move thru complex times, we will all benefit from practicing grace (with others and ourselves) as much as possible.

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  07:59:33

quote:

RD  I have known Clifton Hicks since he was a high school student. I used to consider him a personal friend as well as colleague in banjo endeavors.  Unfortunately,  Clifton has become hitched to his mentor,  (name removed by moderator), also a former friend, who have cut a path based on their particular ideas about the banjo that diverge from the discoveries and ideas about the banjo's heritage that banjo researchers in this country, Europe, Africa, and the Caribbean have created through collaboration over the last 10-15 years.  They have launched vicious personal attacks, nasty slanders, and sexist and homophobic and racist insults against major figures in the banjo world, or anyone who differs with them.

Their reaction to this is rude, sexist, racist, and violent attacks on those who disagree with them including the mainline of banjo scholarship, people who again once saw themselves as friends or collaborators of George and Clifton, people of impeccable reputations like Robert Winans  and more recently Kristina Gaddy and Pete Ross who like myself once saw themselves as personal friends and collaborators of Clifton and George.  His reaction is to engage in vicious personal slander, racist, homophobic, and vicious reactions to anyone he disagrees with.  

He is absent from the hangout and has been kicked out of every Facebook and similar banjo group he has been part of for violent, nasty, sexist, homophobic and effectively racist comments to those who disagree with him, or those whose ideas about politics or history different from his. 

He has also engaged in personal slander against people he disagrees with.  For example, even though he was once a friend of mine, and my wife and I were once friends of the (name removed by moderator), (I am typing in a room where George's wife stayed when she visited us about about 10 years ago) he has started a slander that my wife is a "German heiress" with "a fortune" when George knows my wife came here with a high school education, worked in factories (once even in popsickle stick factory),  and worked while going to school as a teacher until earning a doctorate in education. 

Clifton has launched vicious homophobic insults against Jake Blount and been expelled from banjo groups on Facebook for vile comments like "don't get your panties in a twist" which he directed at me at one point.

One can have differences on all sorts of issues which is OK.,  I am giving a presentation on banjo roots this coming Friday morning for Fiddle Hell where I explain that almost every major figure I have worked with on banjo roots was wrong about this or that over the past 20 years and we have discovered the story of the banjo was more interesting and more contradictory than we once thought.  I will also add that we will find out things we think today will be improved by what others will discover.

Clifton also presents a phony image of himself as a working class person of Appalachian roots.   Clifton Hicks comes from the suburbs of Orlando, got into folk music after hearing a Leadbelly record (what he told me 20 years ago) while in high school and holds a master's degree.   

He has been kicked out of every online banjo group I know of.  Both he and (name removed by moderator) have been banned from the Banjo Gathering for their obnoxious threatening behavior the last time they came several years ago when they disrupted  Aaron Jonah Lewis' performance and threatened me "get out of my way mother f***er" and others.

Again,  I once considered both George and especially Clifton friends beyond the banjo, but they have both set out on a course of violent, nasty, and threatening comments against the main stream of banjo historians, banjo researchers, and banjo performers.  Nothing wrong with having bad ideas or wrong ideas, but the idea that personal slander, violent threats, racist and homophobic and sexist attacks, and threatening violence against others is unacceptable.   Banjo forums, banjo groups, and others places, presumably the Hangout have the right to dispense with people who behave in this way.

At the Banjo Gathering we decided we do not want anyone to be confronted with someone who is going to behave as Clifton or George do.  No banjo group should include a person who is going to write another poster "don't get your panties into a twist" as Clifton did to me on Facebook.   No one needs to include in the discourse of the banjo the kind homophobic comments Clifton has launched against Jake Blount, one of our greatest players now working on a doctorate in Banjo History at Brown University.  No one needs to feel that if they are listen to Lewis perform that the performance will be disrupted because creeps like George or Clifton want to disrupt it,

RD you have been around longer than I have and with distinction.  You know the banjo world is pretty damned tolerant of all kinds of odd behavior, strange opinions, and unkept happening.   You have to dig your own hole and  do your own damage to be kicked out of so many different venues, online groups, and the hangout, and for good reason as Hicks has.

Again personally, this hurts as I think of him I met when he was still in high school, and have known since and once saw as a personal friend that I had much hope for.  It is depressing to see an enthusiastic young guy get corrupted and turned into an evil nasty destructive creep.   However,t there is acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior.  Like every banjo forum, Banjo Hangout has the right to exclude people who behave as Clifton does.  If I behaved like that I would hope they would kick me out too.

Thanks,  Anyone interested in the banjo should get R.D.'s wonderful recordings, and get the two books of banjo tab and music he has produced.  Of course, even the best banjoist will wish they had started working on this stuff when they were 10 years old to get near the level of excellence and pleasure RD has achieved.  Thanks for all you do  RD

Going to take out the Cotton Blossom book and have a try at some of your tunes.

---

Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone mention Clifton Hicks here.  I'm sure they have and I just missed it.  He's such a great player that I'd be surprised if he's been overlooked.

Anyway, he's rapidly become one of my favorite players.  

Clifton Hicks - Hustling Gamblers - Country Blues - False Hearted Lovers Blues - Dock Boggs (youtube.com)

---

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  08:09:42

quote:

As someone who has known of him since he was a teen, and considered him a friend beyond music, that is the only acceptable action to take.  Almost every other major banjo online group and the Banjo Gathering, the central national gathering of banjo historicans, makers, and collectors, have taken this action.

One can have any kind of views one wishes to have, but if one sets out to attack others with racist, homophobic, sexist, and just plain slanders as he has done, that behavior is unacceptable.  It has been taken by every major online and offline banjo gathering or group he has participated in,

This is sad as I once saw him as a friend and collaborator  and the hangout is known for toleration, but he has disrespects all of us by refusing to behave decently.

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

banjered



I doubt he'd be invited back. He was given numerous chances to follow the rules and he refused. He also had more than one account.

---

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  08:23:14

quote:

for years I considered Clifton a friend. 

He has become an evil nasty slanderer whose comments have a personal and often, sexist and racist and certainly homophobic content to them,   He has been hostile and violently threatening to major figures in the banjo world who once considered him a friend.   

Almost every single banjo online and offline aggregation I know of after welcoming him has expelled him, after giving him chances to straighten himself out.

He has violently opposed the general progress of banjo history especially in our affirmation of the African American roots and Circum Caribbean origin of the banjo, and come out viciously attacking those of us associated with that, not with any kind of arguments but with wholesale personal scandals not only about us but about people's wives and families, sexist and homophobic insults.

He can play the banjo but he has a my way or the highway approach whose goal is to increase his income.  That you think this of him indicates he has not led you to the main line of research and discovery and discussion on banjo history.

I find this all sad as I knew him as a young man I saw as a friend, colleague, and someone for the future, but to seem him to become vile, corrupted, threatening violent, and personally slandering people he once considered friends and colleagues is hurtful to see,

---

Originally posted by Fultoncreek

I hope this personal illustration isn't too far afield. When I was an academic, I had a division chair for several years who was kind, smart, well-intentioned, and in most contexts a fine communicator. She actually had a PhD in English, but her emails were were almost invariably offensive. For whatever reason it simply wasn't her medium, and eventually she quit writing them. It may be that discussion lists of this particular kind just aren't Clifton's strength. But I deeply admire his work, and I find his persona really engaging. Thankfully, even if BHO doesn't work out for him (like others, I appreciate our moderators' careful work), we can still have his YouTube and Patreon.

---

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  08:31:59

Stephen, an apt comment.  I have known him since (name removed by moderator) introduce me to s this high school kid he met interested who was interested in Leadbelly who was trying to find out about the banjo.  It has been a sad sad thing to someone descend into being a vicious nasty person summoned to attack people like me and Kristina Gaddy and Pete Ross whom he once thought of as friends and mentors.

A lot of it is about the money, both what he gets from (name removed by moderator) bribing him to be his minion, believe me I have had that dangled in front of me when I first came into the banjo world 25 years ago, but aslo about the money he makes from his Patreon and other operations.  

In all areas of life, I have always learned to beware of people who say they know the answer and everyone else is evil in all walks of life.

Sad sad sad to see this happen to someone who once seem to hold so much promise/

Pomeroy - Posted - 04/06/2024:  09:10:17

I have no knowledge of the subject of this thread. Don't know the guy or any of the back history described here.



What sparks my interest is the liberal and casual use of the term 'authentic' without questioning the concept itself. Any healthy cultural activity, even that with a strong tradition, moves forward and adapts as people add their own creativity to that tradition. That is both inevitable and desirable. Contemporary participants within a culture may fulfil many criteria from 'passionate', 'informed', 'appropriate', 'generous', 'sharing', to 'respectful', 'talented' and 'inspiring'. But 'authenticity' really is a false god; in seeking it (or accepting it as a personal descriptive) a person engages in a futile effort to bottle scotch mist. That is not only a waste of time; more importantly it is a form of creative death.



Those bright creative folks who went before us would be puzzled beyond measure at a culture that revered inertia and replication. Learning is fundamental, but so equally is what we create and pass on in our turn by applying that acquired knowledge.

Edited by - Pomeroy on 04/06/2024 09:21:46

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  09:50:25

quote:  Thanks for a wonderful contribution, right in every sentence.  In fact, I think I will incorporate some of what you write in the class on banjo roots I am giving Friday for Fiddle Hell.   

I find it rather peculiar insofar as Clifton and George have used the bizare idea that the particuar form of banjo playing George claimed to have learned in his family is the only truly authentic kind, and they are somehow annointed to bless those who are authentic and those who are not. 

I could talk about my mother being raised in the biggest company coal camp in W Va, or whatever, but I dont.  I talk about the history, but I think every contribution to the banjo is authentic in its way.  the banjo belongs to us all, anyone wo can make a good sound, or for that matter a bad sound with a banjo is an authentic banjo player!

There are millions of people all over the world who have played and do play the banjo.  Hicks wants to make his, or rather  (name removed by moderator) fantasy of the banjo's history running through George's particular form of banjo playing the only authentic one, but at the same time lashes out and threatens and insults those of us trying to gather the record of how the banjo was and is played historically.  They have been on the warpath against those of us who follow the evidence of banjo history to what people actually did.  Further on the war path against those of us who point to the real origins and spread of the banjo.

The reality is that the five-string and other banjos we play are the product of a new age in the world when an instrument could be developed by instrument makers and players, and spread across different cultures, and continents, and peoples, and not just recently but really since the 1840s or 1850s.  People did not start picking the banjo in the USA, not in appalachia certainly, but in the Caribbean, Black people there.  Banjos then spread to the current US, New Orleans, not part of the US, and then spread quickly to England, Australia, New Zealand, and then back to Africa, and to places like Brazil and Cuba all before the Civil War.  After the Civil War it spread around the world and got mixed up with every form of music making you can think of. and some you would never think of.

All of that is AUTHENTIC TO THE MAX!

As someone about to give a workshop on banjo origins, none of us would be here if it were not for the explosion of banjo making in the late 1830s and 40s that replaced the early gourd banjos with the frame headed and manufactured banjos that were popularized by the minstrel banjo entertainers and parlor banjo players centered in the big cities of the East Coast of the USA and England. 

Otherwise, the banjo would have fallen out as some abandoned artifact of early Black culture used by a few cults that survived before African Americans became largely Christian, if anyone would recall banjos at all.

I say this as one of prime people in launching the contemporary Black banjo revival AND researching early black banjo playing, but even among African Americans, the banjo spread once the instrument was developed closer to its current form, and would have disappeared if it had remained in the original  gourd style. 

The banjo belongs to anyone who can pick one up and make music on it.  That is the one authentic thing about the banjo, and what it signals to the world!

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Originally posted by Pomeroy

I have no knowledge of the subject of this thread. Don't know the guy or any of the back history described here.



What sparks my interest is the liberal and casual use of the term 'authentic' without questioning the concept itself. Any healthy cultural activity, even that with a strong tradition, moves forward and adapts as people add their own creativity to that tradition. That is both inevitable and desirable. Contemporary participants within a culture may fulfil many criteria from 'passionate', 'informed', 'appropriate', 'generous', 'sharing', to 'respectful', 'talented' and 'inspiring'. But 'authenticity' really is a false god; in seeking it (or accepting it as a personal descriptive) a person engages in a futile effort to bottle scotch mist. That is not only a waste of time; more importantly it is a form of creative death.



Those bright creative folks who went before us would be puzzled beyond measure at a culture that revered inertia and replication. Learning is fundamental, but so equally is what we create and pass on in our turn by applying that acquired knowledge.

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Edited by - writerrad on 04/06/2024 09:52:52

tucsonsean - Posted - 04/06/2024:  11:17:24

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

Edited by - tucsonsean on 04/06/2024 11:19:57

tonygo - Posted - 04/06/2024:  11:35:38

quote:

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

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Does anyone else find it ironic that amongst a group of people who love, study, play, and emulate this music and its' rough and rowdy roots, that using the phrase "don't get your panties in a twist" can move one closer to banishment? 

conic - Posted - 04/06/2024:  11:37:25

Yuk, lots of nice Christian cry babies on here just because they know he is not on here to defend himself and now dragging other names into it.
Sounds like some very nice humans are just as bad as what they are saying about Clifton and George and Patrrick

writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  13:59:45

quote: I knew Pat too years ago and have a much more genuine personal affection than  for Clifton, but my concern for him at least as I came to know him as a troubled person and I tried to recommend solutions that helped me on a personal level without getting to specific about what is his business.  I hope he is doing well.  I thought he had a good heart and a genuine concern for making the banjo more accessible and breaking through some of the limitations of banjo snobbery, but an awful paranoid anger about the rest of the banjo world that seemed to have a personal slant to it.  Hope he is doing well if he is still around.

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

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writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  14:08:17

quote:that is not appropriate conversation in public discourse, it is also deeply sexist, why dont you try that at your place of employment.

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Originally posted by tonygo

quote:

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

---

Does anyone else find it ironic that amongst a group of people who love, study, play, and emulate this music and its' rough and rowdy roots, that using the phrase "don't get your panties in a twist" can move one closer to banishment? 

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Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/06/2024:  14:09:37

quote:

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Originally posted by tonygo

quote:

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

---

Does anyone else find it ironic that amongst a group of people who love, study, play, and emulate this music and its' rough and rowdy roots, that using the phrase "don't get your panties in a twist" can move one closer to banishment? 

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I don't think  I've ever even thought about banning anyone just because they use that phrase.   I doubt the other moderators have, either.    I think  you're imaging things that never happened nor will happen for that particular reason.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/06/2024:  14:34:55

Sherry’s dead on with this. Colorful language never got anyone kicked of BHO. OTOH, using colorful language in a post on banned topics will—but not for the turn of phrase.

tonygo - Posted - 04/06/2024:  15:24:31

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by tonygo

quote:

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

---

Does anyone else find it ironic that amongst a group of people who love, study, play, and emulate this music and its' rough and rowdy roots, that using the phrase "don't get your panties in a twist" can move one closer to banishment? 

---

I don't think  I've ever even thought about banning anyone just because they use that phrase.   I doubt the other moderators have, either.    I think  you're imaging things that never happened nor will happen for that particular reason.

Ok, I did read something about it in one of the above comments, but I will stand corrected. T

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writerrad - Posted - 04/06/2024:  18:50:57

quote:

I do not know the exact circumstances that Clifton was banned here because I think i was traveling when that happened.  I am not asserting that this immediate statement was why he was banned or should be, and I dont have to since there were many more egregious things that he has done.

I do not think this is proper are acceptable discourse anywhere let along in public discussion. I find it degrading for someone to think this is the real banjo players talk.  But again, knowing Clifton for a couple decades, it is the way middle class people like him who think they are trying to show how working class or farming people act, put on an act that degrades working people.     I doubt that when he was in his Masters program that Clifton spoke like that.

I worked for 27 years in garages where people fixed buses in Miami,  I have picked tobacco to support myself.  I have been homeless. 

I didnt find people talking about that, but middle class wannabes  who have a snotty superior attitude to working and farming people and trying to fake it talk like that, and it is repulsive. 

Someone who does not find it repulsive needs help!

I come from a working class background and have been through a lot in the civil rights and political stuff, like being dragged off into jungles by men with machine guns or told not to visit countries I planned visit because I might not come out alive.   I have had the FBI admit in full court that it broke into my place and messed with my stuff.    This kind of crap from a middle class guy from the suburbs trying to put on an act, degusts me.  If it does not disgust you,  you need to do some better thinking.

I do know that even the banjo group where he posted this insult, eventually expelled him.  

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by tonygo

quote:

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Originally posted by tucsonsean

The problem here with Clifton Hicks reminds me of the whole Patrick Costello issue, another talented, yet justifiably banned, member. These folks seem to be their own worst enemies, unable to restrain themselves on certain issues, or, sometimes, just to behave civilly. Don't think it's too much to ask.

---

Does anyone else find it ironic that amongst a group of people who love, study, play, and emulate this music and its' rough and rowdy roots, that using the phrase "don't get your panties in a twist" can move one closer to banishment? 

---

I don't think  I've ever even thought about banning anyone just because they use that phrase.   I doubt the other moderators have, either.    I think  you're imaging things that never happened nor will happen for that particular reason.

 

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Edited by - writerrad on 04/06/2024 18:54:30