let-it-spill - Posted - 12/03/2022:  09:15:22

Hi all,



I’m in the market for a new tailpiece. I’ve settled into a really nice tone on my open back RK OT-25 Madison, but the Presto tailpiece has always felt kind of huge. I’d love to find a more minimal tailpiece, though I’m not sure the No Knot will do either. I actually have one in the other room right now, but I'm hesitant to put it on with this next string change, because I really don't want to sustain to get too muted.



In my case, I love a good ringing sustain. I find it helps if I want to focus on slower, more melodic stuff. Sounds really pretty to let notes rings little. And right now my banjo sings in such a lovely way that I’d hate to dampen that too much.



Can anyone recommend a tailpiece that’s maybe halfway between the No Knot and the Presto? Something aesthetically minimal that still preserves some of that warm sustain?



Thanks!

Edited by - let-it-spill on 12/03/2022 09:18:35

Alex Z - Posted - 12/03/2022:  10:19:45

Just to be clear, are you hearing the Presto providing "warm sustain" that you like?  

Or, is there something about the Presto sound that you don't want?

And regarding the No-Knot, is it correct that you have not tried it yet, but you believe it will not provide enough sustain?

To understand a sound between the two tailpieces, need to know what you are hearing on each end.

davidppp - Posted - 12/03/2022:  10:40:39

As far as I understand, the biggest determinant of sustain that you can easily alter on a given banjo is bridge weight. Heavier means more sustain. Heavier also makes the sound more mellow. These will be apparent long before you notice any muting effect.

String break angle over the bridge effects timbre rather than sustain directly. Both the Presto and the No-Knot offer some degree of break angle adjustment. Generally, the angle is much smaller with the No-Know, and that, too, is in the more mellow direction. It's not obvious to me how they impact sustain.

gratefulbiker - Posted - 12/03/2022:  10:56:47

Buckeye Banjos and Brooks Banjos both make a nice in between size tailpiece that provides a bit more down pressure and break angle than a No Knot.
buckeyebanjos.com/tailpieces.html
brooksbanjos.com/banjo-features#tailpieces

banjered - Posted - 12/03/2022:  14:19:12

The hawkeye tailpiece from Balsom Banjo Works is nice. Then there is the Fielding tailpiece which Gold Tone I heard is offering but maybe they are still working out copyright issues. banjered

roadkingjimmy - Posted - 12/03/2022:  14:21:28

Pisgah Hawk tailpiece they are well made and better than a no knot have one on my Ramsey and sounds really nice,just my opinion though.

let-it-spill - Posted - 12/03/2022:  15:35:01

Alex Z Good question, I should’ve clarified. I like the current sound with the Presto tailpiece. But I like the look of the no-knot and other more minimally designed tailpieces. I’m also always searching for a mellow kind of tone, but don’t want to kill off the long ringing sustain of the notes I’m playing. I had read that a no knot can really dampen sustain, but I’ve also read the opposite. So it may be time to just pop the no-knot on and see what happens.



Great recommendations everyone. Thank you! I’d heard of some of these but not others. Will continue to investigate! Keep any other ideas coming!

Edited by - let-it-spill on 12/03/2022 15:36:07

jacot23 - Posted - 12/03/2022:  17:55:44

I live my brass tailpiece like this; though not reallly minimal:

rickardbanjos.com/products/tail-piece

Alex Z - Posted - 12/03/2022:  18:12:41

I can't see the No-Knot reducing sustain. There's not that much down pressure on the bridge. 

Give it a go. Let us know how it turns out. 

Eric A - Posted - 12/03/2022:  23:15:46

quote:

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Originally posted by let-it-spill

Alex Z Good question, I should’ve clarified. I like the current sound with the Presto tailpiece. But I like the look of the no-knot and other more minimally designed tailpieces. I’m also always searching for a mellow kind of tone, but don’t want to kill off the long ringing sustain of the notes I’m playing. I had read that a no knot can really dampen sustain, but I’ve also read the opposite. So it may be time to just pop the no-knot on and see what happens.



Great recommendations everyone. Thank you! I’d heard of some of these but not others. Will continue to investigate! Keep any other ideas coming!

---

You just never know until you try some other tailpieces.  You can always go back to the Presto.  It's the sound that matters, not the appearance.  Also, no need to wait for a string change.  Put on a capo to help hold things together, slack the strings (a lot), and go swapping to your hearts content.  You can try 3 or 4 different ones and be back to the Presto again before lunch.

Edited by - Eric A on 12/03/2022 23:21:23

let-it-spill - Posted - 12/04/2022:  05:29:57

Update: no-knot is on, and sounds pretty good to my ears. A little more in the overtones than I had hoped for, but I have other plans for dealing with that.

No idea why other people were saying it would remove sustain. Still rings out pretty nicely. Will have to play with some of the other options listed here over the next year.

Eric A you know I hadn’t even thought about trying multiple tailpieces like that. I assumed once it was all strung up that the string tension would have made that difficult. I’ll have to keep that in mind for the future!

Alex Z - Posted - 12/04/2022:  07:18:44

"No idea why other people were saying it would remove sustain."

No idea either.  With 100,000 contributors on the BHO, there is a wide variation of (a) how people hear, (b) what people prefer, and (c) how they describe in words what they hear and prefer.

The number of people in the world that I'd let "set up" my banjo for tone (or even touch any adjustment) is in the range of 0-2, and biased to the low end.  The number of people I'd pay attention to for advice on adjusting a banjo for tone is in the range of 4-5.  Everything else is entertainment!  

let-it-spill - Posted - 12/04/2022:  12:31:55

Well, after messing with it for the last hour, I don’t think this no-knot is the one. Turns out that “plunky” sound people seem to like just isn’t my bag. Glad I tried it out though. Presto is going back on this evening.

Edited by - let-it-spill on 12/04/2022 12:32:44

Alex Z - Posted - 12/04/2022:  14:21:52

Good work.  Your ears have to be satisfied.   That's the benefit of being able to adjust your own banjo -- try, and listen.

Paul R - Posted - 12/04/2022:  20:48:14

The Kirshner tailpiece on my main banjo may suit. Its simple design may suit your aesthetic sensibilities, and its adjustability may let you dial in the sound you want.

Kirshner Tailpiece

J.Albert - Posted - 12/06/2022:  11:39:56

OP wrote:

"I like the current sound with the Presto tailpiece. But I like the look of the no-knot and other more minimally designed tailpieces"

It's a banjo.

It makes "sounds".

If you like the sound you're getting from it now, be careful about "changing things".

You may end up with something that you think "looks better", but doesn't sound nearly as good.

Banjercat - Posted - 12/14/2022:  06:05:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eric A

quote:

---

Originally posted by let-it-spill

Alex Z Good question, I should’ve clarified. I like the current sound with the Presto tailpiece. But I like the look of the no-knot and other more minimally designed tailpieces. I’m also always searching for a mellow kind of tone, but don’t want to kill off the long ringing sustain of the notes I’m playing. I had read that a no knot can really dampen sustain, but I’ve also read the opposite. So it may be time to just pop the no-knot on and see what happens.



Great recommendations everyone. Thank you! I’d heard of some of these but not others. Will continue to investigate! Keep any other ideas coming!

---

You just never know until you try some other tailpieces.  You can always go back to the Presto.  It's the sound that matters, not the appearance.  Also, no need to wait for a string change.  Put on a capo to help hold things together, slack the strings (a lot), and go swapping to your hearts content.  You can try 3 or 4 different ones and be back to the Presto again before lunch.

---

THis is a method  iuse, it works great!