therearegoats - Posted - 10/29/2022:  14:03:11

Hi all,



There's an archived thread that addresses this, but I thought I'd start a new one since my version of this mystery has yet to be solved. In short: the nylgut fifth string on my Bart Reiter keeps breaking—seemingly at the knot. I finally had the sense to put a piece of masking tape over where the bowline loop goes around the no-knot peg (the tailpiece is a Pisgah hawktail) so it would hold that part in place if the string broke, giving me a better idea of where it was happening. And yeah, it's pretty clearly breaking in the knot and not because of sharp edges on the tailpiece.



I've made sure that I'm tying my bowline correctly, so I don't think that's it. I had the thought that it could be because I'm trying to stretch them too quickly; I've taken as much as a week to get the 5th string up to an A. But in this latest experiment, I've been using the same stretched out string over and over after tying new knots each time. So that shouldn't be it. So I'm stumped. The strings are the basic Aquila classical strings.



Any thoughts?



Robert

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 10/29/2022 17:17:28

Joel Hooks - Posted - 10/29/2022:  14:14:49

Not that it really matters but it is only a "no knot" if it has the feature which allows you to connect the string without a knot. In this case you have a "knot" tailpiece.

My guess is that by using a bowline knot you are crushing the fairly soft strings and compromising the already fragile polyester by forming a thin spot.

I'm not sure why this bowline thing keeps getting repeated as it overcomplicates things. A very simple figure 8 knot with the lower loop of the knot placed around the peg is all that is needed.

I don't do any trick stretching of the strings as that can cause them to go false (uneven in thickness). What I do is tune them up one whole step and then put the banjo away.

That said, all of the nylgut strings currently on the market are much too thick which causes all kinds of problems. I only use "period correct" sizes in nylon which solves all the complications that people have had with "nylgut".

Also, the unwound 4th concept should be tossed in the trash.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 10/29/2022:  16:47:38

I have read so many problems with Nylgut strings (and experienced a few myself) that I wonder why anyone would even use them. One try was enough for me to reject those oversized and fragile pieces of garbage.

And I also can't figure out why so many people ignore centuries of experience and the physics of vibrating strings and go for unwound bass strings, which to me have the stiffness of a garage door spring and the tone of a cat being stretched on the rack.

I am glad some of those folks don't design for Michelin or Goodyear. Pot holes are bad enough without rolling across one with a reinvented square wheel.

Bill H - Posted - 10/30/2022:  04:22:54

I use Nylgut strings on two banjos with no knot tailpieces and rarely to never have a string break. The ones on my Electric with a 27" scale are currently tuned to aDADE with no capo and have no issues. Since your tailpiece requires a knot, and the bowline has failed several times, you might consider trying a different knot as Joel suggests. Or try a no knot tail piece. I find a no knot much simpler and more reliable to use than trying to tie knots in the ends of these stiff, brittle strings.

banjered - Posted - 10/30/2022:  07:41:36

I like Nylgut strings. Yes it takes some care to not have them break – no sharp edges anywhere where the strings contact the banjo, no over stretching which creates thick/thin issues in the strings messing with intonation, and a simple loop knot. For a simple loop, double up the string for about 3", tie a simple overhand knott (same as you tie your shoes) . I use a nail or screwdriver inside the loop to help keep the loop small enough and making sure I have two strands passing over the bend on the tailpiece. The 4th string tends to wear out soon and I replace it with an equivalent classical guitar string. The strings end up having a nice warm, mellow tone that can last many months to years depending on your amount of playing. Best! banjered

Silver_Falls - Posted - 10/30/2022:  08:53:07

Yes, try the knot suggested by banjered. This video by Tom Collins shows how simple and quick it is:

youtu.be/5FbKYdqbxgU