Josephpetrie - Posted - 05/07/2022:  00:44:41

Hi All,

I recently read some critical comments about Winston Marshall on this site and wanted to share my own thoughts.

He is hardly the "complete player" (and doesn't pretend to be) and uses the banjo for folk-rock rather than bluegrass so I guess if you don't agree with the 5 string banjo being used outside Bluegrass then I can understand you're not going to like him.

However, none other than Tony Trishka is very complimentary in his interview and personally I'd love to be able to play rolls with his speed and evenness.

Plus, he has raised the profile of the instrument worldwide - surely that's for to be a good thing?

Just my two penneth...

RevSpyder - Posted - 05/07/2022:  07:11:35

Completely agree with your tuppence, Joseph.

TScottHilton - Posted - 05/07/2022:  07:40:43

I think most criticism stems from banjo purists. Those who feel the resonator 5 string banjo only belongs in a bluegrass setting played in a bluegrass style. I sometimes see the same criticism of other bands who incorporate banjo into their own respective non-bluegrass sounds. Every musician has their strengths and weaknesses. To me Winston Marshall lacks the speed and precision that a lot of strictly bluegrass pickers possess, but he also plays in huge loud stadium settings and still manages to sing back up and harmony while playing rolls in time. That's a pretty cool skill set on its own. There's room for everyone in the banjo world. Music needs purists who keep history and tradition alive just as much as it needs people finding new sounds and styles. Both are equally important. But that's just one uneducated opinion for you :)

Edited by - TScottHilton on 05/07/2022 07:41:36

Good Buddy - Posted - 05/07/2022:  08:07:47

I have heard his music and never really got into it. I don't think about him as a banjo player until someone who doesn't know anything about the banjo says that he is a great banjo player. I am happy to point out that he isn't a great banjo picker. He is decent, does his job well, and fits in to his small niche in the banjo world. The most I hear about him is in topics like these where the OP somehow feels that Winston has gotten a raw deal from the community. But I think we generally don't think to much about him one way or another...deservedly.

chuckv97 - Posted - 05/07/2022:  09:11:20

Not to be disrespectful but reading the post title I thought you were referring to a cigarette and an amplifier.

All joshing aside, I think any banjo exposure by working bands is a good thing. (they might discover Earl!)

steve davis - Posted - 05/07/2022:  11:51:27

You'll find critics of most anything,here.

steve davis - Posted - 05/07/2022:  12:22:30

Anybody that plays a banjo in front of people is doing good for the instrument and music in general.

arnie fleischer - Posted - 05/07/2022:  12:29:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

Not to be disrespectful but reading the post title I thought you were referring to a cigarette and an amplifier.

---

And I thought it was a reference to Wynton Marsalis.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/07/2022:  15:01:44

Winston Marshall's net worth is estimated to be over $14 million. He made more money with a capo, playing forward and backward rolls in 4 years, than the top 5 Traditional Masters Players made in their entire careers, all put together. If younger Players who are interested in a Musical career, see no money or future in the banjo, then why learn to play it?

jan dupree - Posted - 05/07/2022:  15:10:29

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

Not to be disrespectful but reading the post title I thought you were referring to a cigarette and an amplifier.



All joshing aside, I think any banjo exposure by working bands is a good thing. (they might discover Earl!)

---

There is no money in Traditional Earl Scruggs Bluegrass music. Why spend 10 years of your life, from 12-22, mastering the banjo, and then choosing a genre or style of music to play, that ensures that you will always be wondering where the next mortgage payment is coming from, for your $150,000 house, and where you are going to get the money for a new transmission for your 15 year old Ford truck.

chuckv97 - Posted - 05/07/2022:  16:06:19

Well, if our sole reason for playing music is money then I think you miss my point. Artistry for its own sake has its place. There are lots of rich “musicians” that couldn’t play their way past a pulloff.

Owen - Posted - 05/07/2022:  16:27:25

Tongue-in cheek, what's a pull-off?   

[And soon I'll Google "Winston Marshall" to see what I've been missing.]

Edited by - Owen on 05/07/2022 16:27:50

jan dupree - Posted - 05/07/2022:  20:00:14

As far as Winston Marshall goes, I'll trade places with him any day. He did'nt even want to be the banjo player, but Marcos Mumford told him if he wanted to be in the band he had to learn the 5 string banjo. He bought a Deering Eagle and got the rolls down in about 4 months. He just used a capo for the different keys.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/07/2022:  20:06:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

Well, if our sole reason for playing music is money then I think you miss my point. Artistry for its own sake has its place. There are lots of rich “musicians” that couldn’t play their way past a pulloff.

---

Whatever it takes to get the banjo in the hands of the most People, the more People playing it the more of a chance it can be taken to new heights. If it remains an obscure instrument, relegated to a limited number of People with restrictions on it's use, it will never gain the Popularity needed to produce creative music from it.

HarleyQ - Posted - 05/07/2022:  20:19:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

Well, if our sole reason for playing music is money then I think you miss my point. Artistry for its own sake has its place. There are lots of rich “musicians” that couldn’t play their way past a pulloff.

---

Whatever it takes to get the banjo in the hands of the most People, the more People playing it the more of a chance it can be taken to new heights. If it remains an obscure instrument, relegated to a limited number of People with restrictions on it's use, it will never gain the Popularity needed to produce creative music from it.

---

Do you play??

jan dupree - Posted - 05/07/2022:  20:22:33

Earl Scruggs Net Worth:

Earl Scruggs net worth or net income is estimated to be between $1 Million – $5 Million. Just to give you a comparison, Scruggs was actively recording and touring for 40 years when Traditional Bluegrass was a lot more popular and in demand, and was a creator of the genre, and considered the Gold Standard of banjo Players. Winston Marshall learned to play in 4 months and was only active for 4 years.

Edited by - jan dupree on 05/07/2022 20:23:58

HarleyQ - Posted - 05/07/2022:  20:52:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

Earl Scruggs Net Worth:

Earl Scruggs net worth or net income is estimated to be between $1 Million – $5 Million. Just to give you a comparison, Scruggs was actively recording and touring for 40 years when Traditional Bluegrass was a lot more popular and in demand, and was a creator of the genre, and considered the Gold Standard of banjo Players. Winston Marshall learned to play in 4 months and was only active for 4 years.

---

He sounded like about 4 mos of playing.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 05/08/2022:  05:54:43

Hello,

4 months and made $14 Million? That is a fantastic rate of return. 

jan dupree - Posted - 05/08/2022:  08:10:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aradobanjo

Hello,

4 months and made $14 Million? That is a fantastic rate of return. 

---

It gives inspiration to younger Players. Just because you will never be able to compete in a banjo contest, does not mean you can't be a successful banjo player in a Superstar band, and play before millions, and make millions of dollars.  

jan dupree - Posted - 05/08/2022:  08:43:16

Just the fact that the Leader and Singer of what will become a Grammy winning,
Internationally known band, with an album that was the fastest selling album of the decade, and 3 other Albums selling by the tens of millions, and 4 Worldwide tours, wanted a banjo in his band, was a giant leap forward for the banjo.

pianojuggler - Posted - 05/13/2022:  12:50:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Josephpetrie

Hi All,

...

---

Until now, I had only heard of Mumford & Sons, never knowingly heard any of their music, and had never heard of Winston Marshall.  I just watched some of a few M&S vids.  I couldn't find one that really showed Winston Marshall's playing.  A few snippets sounded okay, but just.

Recently, someone mentioned Sweet City Woman by the Stampeders.  Rich Dodson literally picked up a banjo on the way to the studio, tuned it to a guitar tuning and played it like a guitar.

So, a kudo to Winston Marshall for at least playing in a banjo-like style.

Beyond that, I don't really have an opinion.  

Mostly, I wanted to pop in here to say that I spent a lovely week in Hebden Bridge in 2002 or so.  There was a company there, Henry Beard, that made juggling props.  I saw a picture of the town on their web site and decided to go (a few years later, I ended up in Wroclaw Poland also because I saw a picture and decided to go there).  Hebden Bridge is a great place, and apparently has a large artist community and a cool festival every year.  The only downside was that the day we were supposed to get the train back to London, the train company went on strike, so we ended up taking the bus to Huddersfield, a train to York, and from there back to the city.

I'd love to go back someday.

Cheers,

pj

Josephpetrie - Posted - 05/13/2022:  13:42:51

@pianojuggler Thank you for the kind words, Hebden Bridge is indeed a place like no other...

Let me know when you're coming, and bring your banjo!

Joe

ChunoTheDog - Posted - 05/13/2022:  14:23:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

---

There is no money in Traditional Earl Scruggs Bluegrass music. Why spend 10 years of your life, from 12-22, mastering the banjo, and then choosing a genre or style of music to play, that ensures that you will always be wondering where the next mortgage payment is coming from, for your $150,000 house, and where you are going to get the money for a new transmission for your 15 year old Ford truck.

---

Play for fun, get a 'real job' you hate to (almost) pay the mortgage, and buy a Toyota. Also don't worry about Winston Marshall. 

Problem (kind of) solved.

Edited by - ChunoTheDog on 05/13/2022 14:24:11

pianojuggler - Posted - 05/13/2022:  15:26:47

It was sometimes said that making a living as a musician was 10% talent and 90% having a good agent.

The internet and yootoob have maybe changed that a bit, but there are some really talented folks making yootoob vids who probably get a tiny fraction of a penny per view. Recording is a sucker hole anymore since there is so much piracy. I think performing live on a big stage is probably the only way to make it. And for that, you need a good agent.

I've seen some truly awful acts on big stages in my life.

Jbo1 - Posted - 05/13/2022:  16:15:29

Well, he ain't in the band anymore, and kind of gave up playing (at least for now), so it may not matter what anyone thinks.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/13/2022:  16:50:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by TScottHilton

I think most criticism stems from banjo purists. Those who feel the resonator 5 string banjo only belongs in a bluegrass setting played in a bluegrass style.    . . .   To me Winston Marshall lacks the speed and precision that a lot of strictly bluegrass pickers possess . . .

---

What I feel -- and I'm far from a purist -- is that anyone who plays a musical instrument professionally ought to display a professional level of musicianship on their instrument. They ought to be able to hold their own with anybody. They ought to play at more than a beginner's level.

I'll admit I like to see and hear the banjo played banjoistically. It's fine for players to craft their own rolls or chord shapes to achieve specific sounds they're after. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelny and Ryan Cavanaugh are a few examples of players who expanded the boundaries of technique to play their music and advanced the art of banjo in the process.

The same can't be said of Winston. When I listen to or watch Winston, I hear or see a player who plays the non-standard way he does not because he doesn't want to play like the vast majority of professional banjo players, but because he can't.

Winston himself said in the Tony Trischka interview that he's no great shakes on banjo. I forget his exact words. 

It's not that he lacks speed or precision. He lacks some fundamental ability.

His millions prove only that he was in the right spot at the right time.

O.D. - Posted - 05/14/2022:  04:47:28

I would think most people listen to or go to concerts to hear the band Munford and Sons,not Winston Marshall.
Except for a hand full of people, they don't know the difference between Earl and Winston. They just hear a banjo.
He was a contribution to the bands overall sound.
I think the banjo police can find plenty of sub par players if you take the time to look.

Everett

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  09:30:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

---

Originally posted by TScottHilton

I think most criticism stems from banjo purists. Those who feel the resonator 5 string banjo only belongs in a bluegrass setting played in a bluegrass style.    . . .   To me Winston Marshall lacks the speed and precision that a lot of strictly bluegrass pickers possess . . .

---

What I feel -- and I'm far from a purist -- is that anyone who plays a musical instrument professionally ought to display a professional level of musicianship on their instrument. They ought to be able to hold their own with anybody. They ought to play at more than a beginner's level.

I'll admit I like to see and hear the banjo played banjoistically. It's fine for players to craft their own rolls or chord shapes to achieve specific sounds they're after. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelny and Ryan Cavanaugh are a few examples of players who expanded the boundaries of technique to play their music and advanced the art of banjo in the process.

The same can't be said of Winston. When I listen to or watch Winston, I hear or see a player who plays the non-standard way he does not because he doesn't want to play like the vast majority of professional banjo players, but because he can't.

Winston himself said in the Tony Trischka interview that he's no great shakes on banjo. I forget his exact words. 

It's not that he lacks speed or precision. He lacks some fundamental ability.

His millions prove only that he was in the right spot at the right time.

---

He is an accomplished Guitar Player. He taught himself to play the banjo in 4 months for Mumford and Sons. It was purely a Financial Investment that paid off big time, more than anyone imagined. He can now become a "Real Banjo Player" if he wanted, and take lessons from the best Players in the World, but he does'nt have the motivation for it. He has already done what thousands of other "Real Banjo Players" can only dream of doing.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  09:35:35

quote:

---

Originally posted by O.D.

I would think most people listen to or go to concerts to hear the band Munford and Sons,not Winston Marshall.

Except for a hand full of people, they don't know the difference between Earl and Winston. They just hear a banjo.

He was a contribution to the bands overall sound.

I think the banjo police can find plenty of sub par players if you take the time to look.



He played what Marcus Mumford told him to play. There was never a reason to cut loose with a bars of licks from Pike County Breakdown with their songs, even if he was capable of playing it.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/14/2022:  09:58:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

He is an accomplished Guitar Player. He taught himself to play the banjo in 4 months for Mumford and Sons. It was purely a Financial Investment that paid off big time, more than anyone imagined. He can now become a "Real Banjo Player" if he wanted, and take lessons from the best Players in the World, but he does'nt have the motivation for it. He has already done what thousands of other "Real Banjo Players" can only dream of doing.

---

So you agree with me. He's not at this time a real banjo player. His success comes not from his musical prowess, but from his membership in Mumford and Sons, which appears to me to be one of those groups that's greater than the sum of its parts.

To see just how accomplished on guitar Winston is, I've searched the Internet for "Winston Marshall lead guitar solo" and turned up nothing.  The only video of him playing guitar is this one. Pretty average. I'm happy to be pointed to an example of Winston demonstrating real chops on guitar.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  10:20:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

He is an accomplished Guitar Player. He taught himself to play the banjo in 4 months for Mumford and Sons. It was purely a Financial Investment that paid off big time, more than anyone imagined. He can now become a "Real Banjo Player" if he wanted, and take lessons from the best Players in the World, but he does'nt have the motivation for it. He has already done what thousands of other "Real Banjo Players" can only dream of doing. You know you have made it when Deering builds a Signature Model in your name. Not bad for a "Not a Real Banjo Player" is it.deeringbanjos.com/products/win...ing-banjo

---

So you agree with me. He's not at this time a real banjo player. His success comes not from his musical prowess, but from his membership in Mumford and Sons, which appears to me to be one of those groups that's greater than the sum of its parts.

To see just how accomplished on guitar Winston is, I've searched the Internet for "Winston Marshall lead guitar solo" and turned up nothing.  The only video of him playing guitar is this one. Pretty average. I'm happy to be pointed to an example of Winston demonstrating real chops on guitar.

---

Then that makes him even more of an inspiration. Young People can see you don't have to be a musical genius and virtuoso to become a Music Superstar, so that will motivate them to start playing banjo and guitar. George Harrison was still taking beginner guitar lessons even after the Beatles released their first album. Look at Old Crow Medicine Show, none of them were past Intermediate banjo playing skills.

Edited by - jan dupree on 05/14/2022 10:30:04

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  10:31:13

deeringbanjos.com/products/win...ing-banjo His own Signature Model, but yet He is not a Real Banjo Player?

O.D. - Posted - 05/14/2022:  11:03:21

I'm interested to know why Winston's playing abilities ,or lack of are so important to the people arguing in this thread.
What is the end gain?

Everett

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/14/2022:  11:19:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

deeringbanjos.com/products/win...ing-banjo His own Signature Model, but yet He is not a Real Banjo Player?

---

Based on what I've heard, he's not much of a banjo player. He's said the same about himself.

From the BNL interview by Tony Trischka:

" should say from the outset that I really don’t know what I’m doing. I’m a bit of a blagger. I think you already know that. I remember the first time we met Jerry Douglas at Telluride, and he said to me, 'Winston, the great thing about you is you have no idea what you’re doing.'  And that is very very true."

"... soloing on the banjo is not something I’ve really done… I mean, picking melodies a bit. Maybe it was to do with how the band started. With the band, it’s always been very instinctual. Just play, and make it sound …mean it. And feel it. And when we started, like Jerry said, I didn’t really know what I was doing. I wasn’t a banjo player that long before. I was just doing rolls, which actually was important to the band, because we didn’t have a drummer and those rolls gave it a rhythm that a drummer in a normal band would give it. There are counter melodies, like the one you mention, and there’s room for that. But we always let the vocal do the heavy lifting on the melodies. And the banjo has more of a high-range arp’ [arpeggio] thing."

He doesn't play play banjo the way most advanced and pro players do. 

But he's a star and his endorsement can sell banjos. I don't deny that, Jan.

I know from your previous posts you're a fan of the new younger acts. I think sometimes you're too much of a fan to acknowledge some of those acts' or players' shortcomings.

If you're familiar enough with Mumford and Sons' body of work, point us to the best of Winston on the banjo.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  12:44:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

deeringbanjos.com/products/win...ing-banjo His own Signature Model, but yet He is not a Real Banjo Player?

---

Based on what I've heard, he's not much of a banjo player. He's said the same about himself.

From the BNL interview by Tony Trischka:

" should say from the outset that I really don’t know what I’m doing. I’m a bit of a blagger. I think you already know that. I remember the first time we met Jerry Douglas at Telluride, and he said to me, 'Winston, the great thing about you is you have no idea what you’re doing.'  And that is very very true."

"... soloing on the banjo is not something I’ve really done… I mean, picking melodies a bit. Maybe it was to do with how the band started. With the band, it’s always been very instinctual. Just play, and make it sound …mean it. And feel it. And when we started, like Jerry said, I didn’t really know what I was doing. I wasn’t a banjo player that long before. I was just doing rolls, which actually was important to the band, because we didn’t have a drummer and those rolls gave it a rhythm that a drummer in a normal band would give it. There are counter melodies, like the one you mention, and there’s room for that. But we always let the vocal do the heavy lifting on the melodies. And the banjo has more of a high-range arp’ [arpeggio] thing."

He doesn't play play banjo the way most advanced and pro players do. 

But he's a star and his endorsement can sell banjos. I don't deny that, Jan.

I know from your previous posts you're a fan of the new younger acts. I think sometimes you're too much of a fan to acknowledge some of those acts' or players' shortcomings.

If you're familiar enough with Mumford and Sons' body of work, point us to the best of Winston on the banjo.

---

I never listened to Mumford more than a dozen times. And really could'nt tell you the names of more than 2 or 3 of their songs. If it was not for my daughters in College who had their albums and attended their Concert, I probably would have never listened to them that many times. The only point I'm making is, you don't have to have the talent of Jens Kruger, Tony Triskca, Earl Scruggs, Bobby Osborne, or Bill Keith to become a success in the music field with the banjo or guitar. Just have a sound that nobody has heard before, and be good at it. That goes for music in general.

jan dupree - Posted - 05/14/2022:  12:46:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by O.D.

I'm interested to know why Winston's playing abilities ,or lack of are so important to the people arguing in this thread.

What is the end gain?



Everett

---

We are just trying to figure out what the definition of a banjo player is. Many young People want to know before they decide whether or not to continue learning to play it.

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/14/2022:  14:21:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by O.D.

I'm interested to know why Winston's playing abilities ,or lack of are so important to the people arguing in this thread.

What is the end gain?

---

It's the subject of the discussion, so I suppose you could ask why the O.P. asked what people think of Winston.

I participated because I have an opinion. But Winston's not important to me, and I'm trying not to argue. Just support my point.

One good thing about Winston is that he contributes in some way to interest in banjo. I believe some players who pick up up banjo because of Winston will find their way to higher level banjo playing. A few of them might even be the next generation of virtuosos or stylistic pioneers.

phb - Posted - 05/16/2022:  01:44:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

He taught himself to play the banjo in 4 months for Mumford and Sons. It was purely a Financial Investment that paid off big time, more than anyone imagined. He can now become a "Real Banjo Player" if he wanted, and take lessons from the best Players in the World, but he does'nt have the motivation for it. He has already done what thousands of other "Real Banjo Players" can only dream of doing.

---

Wouldn't that depend on what one dreams of? I wish to play like Earl or anyone of the greats much more than playing mediocre stuff in a stadium full of people blasted into deafness.

GrahamHawker - Posted - 05/16/2022:  02:50:03

It's all a bit late discussing someone who may never play banjo in a commercial way again.

I probably bought my first banjo because of Mumford and Sons, not to be like Winston, but because I got the way the banjo was a rhythm instrument. When the band dropped the banjo on the third album they sounded like any other bland stadium rock pop band. When it came back on the fourth album they sounded good again even though the banjo got heavily disguised. If they were an electronica band they would be using a sequencer.

maxmax - Posted - 05/16/2022:  03:53:46

I like that he seems modest, so I can't fault him for not being the greatest player. And him happening to join a band that would become hugely successful isn't something I could hold against him either.

But I've listened to their version of The Boxer probably over a hundred times last week while learning Jerry Douglas solo on my dobro (which I think is quite nice in it's straight forward, sticking to the melody kind of way), and it got me thinking that even though they were playing for the masses and not for other musicians, I wonder if they would have reached even higher if the band members had slightly more technical chops on their instruments. They were obviously incredibly successful with what they were doing, so maybe it wouldn't have been necessary, but just adding someone like Jerry Douglas who really knows what he's doing adds a whole new dimension to their sound which I'm sure anyone can enjoy.

phb - Posted - 05/16/2022:  04:19:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by maxmax

But I've listened to their version of The Boxer probably over a hundred times last week while learning Jerry Douglas solo on my dobro (which I think is quite nice in it's straight forward, sticking to the melody kind of way), and it got me thinking that even though they were playing for the masses and not for other musicians, I wonder if they would have reached even higher if the band members had slightly more technical chops on their instruments. They were obviously incredibly successful with what they were doing, so maybe it wouldn't have been necessary, but just adding someone like Jerry Douglas who really knows what he's doing adds a whole new dimension to their sound which I'm sure anyone can enjoy.

---

I wonder whether Paul's comment here in this video was referring to Mumford&Sons just as much as to the musicians on stage 

youtu.be/sWm-VFLWrKc?t=136

jan dupree - Posted - 05/16/2022:  09:27:42

Trying to be successful in the music field by doing a "Been there Done that" routine will get you nowhere. No matter how good you can play. Music tastes change about every 5 years. You tailor you sound to met the demand. Nobody cares about your expertise on the instrument, they are only interested in the sound that is coming from the Band.

chuckv97 - Posted - 05/16/2022:  09:34:25

Musicianship in popular bands has been dumbed down for decades now

jan dupree - Posted - 05/16/2022:  16:13:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

Musicianship in popular bands has been dumbed down for decades now

---

There is more emphasis on the singers vocal ability, and vocal arrangement, along with beat now.

250gibson - Posted - 05/16/2022:  16:29:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

He is an accomplished Guitar Player. He taught himself to play the banjo in 4 months for Mumford and Sons. It was purely a Financial Investment that paid off big time, more than anyone imagined. He can now become a "Real Banjo Player" if he wanted, and take lessons from the best Players in the World, but he does'nt have the motivation for it. He has already done what thousands of other "Real Banjo Players" can only dream of doing.

---

So you agree with me. He's not at this time a real banjo player. His success comes not from his musical prowess, but from his membership in Mumford and Sons, which appears to me to be one of those groups that's greater than the sum of its parts.

To see just how accomplished on guitar Winston is, I've searched the Internet for "Winston Marshall lead guitar solo" and turned up nothing.  The only video of him playing guitar is this one. Pretty average. I'm happy to be pointed to an example of Winston demonstrating real chops on guitar.

---

What defines chops on any instrument? I find it funny that there are thousands of 3-4 chord guitar strummers and mandolin chunkers out there, and none get dis-credited as not being real players. Do you think guitarists go around bashing Lester Flatt or Del because they couldn't play leads like Tony Rice? What exactly makes you a real banjo player or guitar player for that matter.?

Old Hickory - Posted - 05/16/2022:  16:41:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by 250gibson

I find it funny that there are thousands of 3-4 chord guitar strummers and mandolin chunkers out there, and none get dis-credited as not being real players.

---

They also don't have worldwide followings of fans who think they are in fact great mandolin and guitar players.

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

What defines chops on any instrument? 

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Virtuosity. creativity. Innovation. Execution. Timing.  Taste. Tone. The ability to play stuff that sets them above other players of the same instrument. The abiity to create and play stuff that other players want to learn and incorporate into their playing.

I'm sure there's more to it, but this is a start.

quote:

Originally posted by 250gibson

Do you think guitarists go around bashing Lester Flatt or Del because they couldn't play leads like Tony Rice? 

No. Because Lester and Del are fulfilling their non-lead role. Any guitarists who understand that good bluegrass music isn't as simple as it sounds appreciate that Lester and Del are excellent bluegrass rhythm guitarists. And Lester did develop a "G run" that bears his name.

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

What exactly makes you a real banjo player or guitar player for that matter.?

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Being able to play your instrument at least well as most players. Having good command of the fundamentals of your instrument. Being able to hold your own when playing with others. I don't know. Maybe I can't describe it. But I know it when I hear it.

250gibson - Posted - 05/16/2022:  17:02:06

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

I find it funny that there are thousands of 3-4 chord guitar strummers and mandolin chunkers out there, and none get dis-credited as not being real players.

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They also don't have worldwide followings of fans who think they are in fact great mandolin and guitar players.

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

What defines chops on any instrument? 

---

Virtuosity. creativity. Innovation. Execution. Timing.  Taste. Tone. The ability to play stuff that sets them above other players of the same instrument. The abiity to create and play stuff that other players want to learn and incorporate into their playing.

I'm sure there's more to it, but this is a start.

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

Do you think guitarists go around bashing Lester Flatt or Del because they couldn't play leads like Tony Rice? 

---

 

No. Because Lester and Del are fulfilling their non-lead role. Any guitarists who understand that good bluegrass music isn't as simple as it sounds appreciate that Lester and Del are excellent bluegrass rhythm guitarists. And Lester did develop a "G run" that bears his name.

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

What exactly makes you a real banjo player or guitar player for that matter.?

---

Being able to play your instrument at least well as most players. Having good command of the fundamentals of your instrument. Being able to hold your own when playing with others. I don't know. Maybe I can't describe it. But I know it when I hear it.

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The thing is Mumford and sons aren't bluegrass. The banjo player is fulfilling the role called for in his band, and is doing it well enough to have large record contracts and make a lot of money. Would Del and Lester still be considered great rhythm players if they joined a salsa band?  No one is touting the Mumford guy as being an exceptional player, but he is able to get the job done in his band which seems pretty successful. 

jan dupree - Posted - 05/17/2022:  13:03:48

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

I find it funny that there are thousands of 3-4 chord guitar strummers and mandolin chunkers out there, and none get dis-credited as not being real players.

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They also don't have worldwide followings of fans who think they are in fact great mandolin and guitar players.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 250gibson

What defines chops on any instrument? 

---

Virtuosity. creativity. Innovation. Execution. Timing.  Taste. Tone. The ability to play stuff that sets them above other players of the same instrument. The abiity to create and play stuff that other players want to learn and incorporate into their playing.

I'm sure there's more to it, but this is a start.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 250gibson

Do you think guitarists go around bashing Lester Flatt or Del because they couldn't play leads like Tony Rice? 

---

 

No. Because Lester and Del are fulfilling their non-lead role. Any guitarists who understand that good bluegrass music isn't as simple as it sounds appreciate that Lester and Del are excellent bluegrass rhythm guitarists. And Lester did develop a "G run" that bears his name.

quote:

---

Originally posted by 250gibson

What exactly makes you a real banjo player or guitar player for that matter.?

---

Being able to play your instrument at least well as most players. Having good command of the fundamentals of your instrument. Being able to hold your own when playing with others. I don't know. Maybe I can't describe it. But I know it when I hear it.

---

The thing is Mumford and sons aren't bluegrass. The banjo player is fulfilling the role called for in his band, and is doing it well enough to have large record contracts and make a lot of money. Would Del and Lester still be considered great rhythm players if they joined a salsa band?  No one is touting the Mumford guy as being an exceptional player, but he is able to get the job done in his band which seems pretty successful. 

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I can't believe there are People on this BHO Group who still associate the banjo with strictly Bluegrass Music. The 5 string banjo has gone way beyond Bluegrass, along with the amount of money that can be made playing music other than Bluegrass. Marcus Mumford gave up a Professional Soccer career for Mumford and Sons. I doubt he would have done that for a band playing Rolling in my Sweet Baby's Arms and Salty Dog Blues. If he did, he would still be playing $600 a set shows on the Bluegrass Festival Circuit, along with playing weekly shows on youtube with a tip jar. 

elitholt28 - Posted - 05/17/2022:  13:44:09

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Originally posted by jan dupree

Earl Scruggs Net Worth:

Earl Scruggs net worth or net income is estimated to be between $1 Million – $5 Million. Just to give you a comparison, Scruggs was actively recording and touring for 40 years when Traditional Bluegrass was a lot more popular and in demand, and was a creator of the genre, and considered the Gold Standard of banjo Players. Winston Marshall learned to play in 4 months and was only active for 4 years.

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Marshall actually played the banjo for Mumford and Sons from 2007 to 2021