6stringedRamble - Posted - 04/13/2022:  04:33:12

I've learned to play notes by ear. I can't tell you what the notes are. I just know I can find the melody on banjo just by picking around. I don't even look up music anymore. If I want to play a song, like say, whispering pines, by Johnny Horton. I just pick it. It reminds me of how Woody Guthrie claimed he learned to play from a black harmonica player and hobo. The man told Woody whatever the train says he says too with his harmonica. I really didn't understand what that meant at the time, but now that I can find melodies by ear, it makes perfect sense.

I find most of the notes, struggle to find them all. I honestly don't know how I do it. Granted I've had trouble with Cash songs, like long black veil, maybe cuz of the baritone voice. I assume I'm playing in maybe a different key. I know music theory a bit.



But the melody is kinda boring by itself. If I can tell the key or chords by ear I'd probably never have to pick up sheet music or tabs again.



Frankly I've found it very frustrating since most banjo playing is melody and syncopation and rhythm together.



But I'm just wondering what listening practices have others done to identify key and chords?

Edited by - 6stringedRamble on 04/13/2022 04:36:43

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/13/2022:  04:47:39

The best way to learn to "hear" chords is to play with others. If you can't hear the chords, sit where you can watch a rhythm guitar picker and learn a few basic chords: G, C, D, A E and when the guitar picker changes fingerings/chords, you do, too. Eventually you'll feel a change coming up although you may not know for sure what it is. After a while you'll know the change is coming up and get it right most of the time.

If there's not a jam in your area and you can't play with others, Band in a Box will help. You can input chords to whatever song(s) you like, and vamp along, watching the chord changes and listening for them. If you can't afford BIAB, I think Tabledit would do the same thing: just put in a chord sequence, no melody, no tab and listen and see if you can figure out what the changes are.

As far as identifying the key, if you're in a jam you can either ask what key or look around and see if the guitar picker is capoed up and if so, what fingering he's using; i.e., G, C, D or A, D, E or whatever.

If you are trying to figure out the key from a CD, then it's pretty much trial and error. Usually the first chord of a song is the key (but not always) and once you figure out the key, then the other chords are usually pretty easy to find.

Does that help?

steve davis - Posted - 04/13/2022:  06:37:32

I listened to my Dad who told me "In the key of G the first change is very often the C chord and the D chord comes near the end."

He talked about "feeling" which chord was being played.Dad was a great ear player which includes hearing/feeling the chord changes.

Hearing the key and chord changes is a big part of playing by ear.

Tablature is a huge help in finding keys and chords.Nothing to avoid there.Tab is a wonderful learning tool.

Edited by - steve davis on 04/13/2022 06:46:30

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 04/13/2022:  06:54:53

I think constant lsitening is the best way to learn chord changes, but I do think also that listening to simple familiar tunes, common things like "Twinkle. Twinkle, Little Star" or "On top of Old Smokey" are the easiest to hear as a start.

steve davis - Posted - 04/13/2022:  07:31:42

I don't think there is a "best" way to learn.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 04/13/2022:  08:32:59

If I understand you correctly - the part about folks getting in different keys like Cash. I try to hear the last note of the verse, chorus or song and match it up to the 3rd string and capo there then go on and get the melody notes.
ken

Ric in Richmond - Posted - 04/13/2022:  12:05:41

Listen to other songs to recognize the chord movement. Like this guy who shows your the chord patterns and links them to songs. After a while you just spot them.

That or learn the fingering on the guitar and cheat....


youtube.com/watch?v=Vyc8lezaa9...&index=11

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 04/13/2022:  12:35:32

One hint: most tunes use only three chords, the I, IV, and V/V7. In the key of G, those would be G (I), C(IV) and D/D7 (V) even when a band member plays an odd note (ex:E) it is usually a non-chordal passing note and one of those I,IV,V chords will still work fine. Learn those simple changes first, and worry about more complex harmonies and key changes after you've gotten the easy changes in your ears and hands.

Jerry Hatrick - Posted - 04/13/2022:  15:05:02

There was very little tablature available when some of us started out, and most sheet music was arranged by and for pianists, so you had to work out keys and chords from repeated listening to recordings. If you had a good old fashioned record player, you could slow the record down to make it easier from 33.3 to 16rpm without altering the key, just as you can now slow down YouTube videos without altering the pitch/key.

To find the key would mean running a finger up and down the G or B string (on banjo or guitar), until you found a note that chimed precisely with typically the last note of the melody - if that was on say fret 2 of the G string, then the song was usually in the key of A, if fret 3 then Bb, etc. Learning which notes are where on any particular string (in the days before digital tuners) was simple once you learnt the musical alphabet (A, Bb, B, C, Db, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, Ab, and then A, Bb, etc again) and applied it to the twelve frets of each tuned string.

Working out chords was best done by playing along with the recording in the same key, and listening for where the changes were typically occurring. Familiarity with common chord progressions, or even just the fundamental groupings of first, fourth and fifth chords (eg A, D and E in the key of A) clearly helped, but that sort of knowledge was gradually acquired the more you went through this trial and error approach.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 04/13/2022:  15:13:38

Learn the Bass!

banjoak - Posted - 04/13/2022:  20:00:07

The way that many folks learn to hear chords... is starting with simple familiar songs to you; finding a resource, like a songbook, or perhaps another person, (or online these days); that tell you the chords to play and when to change... chord chart.

But more than just playing it's about  "listening" to how the chord quality harmonizes the melody; and pay attention to how you can hear when the harmonization changes. As well, pay attention to the differentiating the sounds of chords major/minor; and eventually noticing/hearing what they refer to as numbering concept of I, IV, V (and more). At some point, then try new songs without looking at chord chart, listen for same qualities... initially a bit of trial and error... to what sounds right.

---

Another way, starts with understanding how chords are made of root/third/fifth... and then listen to the main melody note(s)... and then find that on the instrument... and then listen to what chord would fit that. Often (but not always) the main note is going to be one of the root/third/fifth... so thus gives you three options to make a chord from... listen to which sounds right.

Edited by - banjoak on 04/13/2022 20:05:09

steve davis - Posted - 04/14/2022:  06:21:09

We learn by doing.Play music every day and use all the various materials and learning tools you can find.
One of the strong ways is playing music with people that play well by ear and learning as you go.

johnedallas - Posted - 04/15/2022:  13:25:27

I find it rather hit-and-miss to just try to play a melody by ear with no knowledge of music theory. Most "normal" tunes are made up of 7 notes per octave: in the key of G, they are G, A, B, C, D, E, and F#. Unfortunately, our banjos have 12 notes per octave: G, G#, A, Bb, B, C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, and F#. That means, to attempt to play a melody in G major, we have to know which of the available notes to choose from, and which notes to ignore in this key. If you practice scales (like I did on the mandolin as a child) you can quickly learn to play melodies by ear.

I see harminization by ear as similar. The banjo can produce any chord you want - and many that you don't want. For a given key, say G major, we have to not only limit ourselves to the seven notes of the key, but also to the six or seven chords that we can form with these seven notes. So to make it simple, I define a key on the banjo (or other chording instruments) as a scale of seven notes and a set of seven chords. In the key of G major, that would be:
- the notes G, A, B, C, D, E, and F# (see sbove) and
- the chords that can be formed with these notes, namely, G major, C major, D major, D7, E minor, A minor, and B minor.
Wherever you find yourself in a G-major melody, one of those seven chords is going to fit. Often more than one of them will fit - that's your opportunity to get creative as an arranger!

Cheers,
John

overhere - Posted - 04/23/2022:  14:11:17

A great suttle teacher/tool is getting song books that have lyrics to the songs you know or heard. [Most have little chord boxes placed above the lyrics] where chords are played. And it doesn’t have to be just banjo as long as it has the chords to the song.....guitar, banjo, or whatever. Using these things over and over will stimulate your memory blip and you’ll be on your way.also practice your scales in each key is a big help.

steve davis - Posted - 05/22/2022:  12:32:46

You don't need to learn theory to play music.
Learn the I,IV and V chord positions on the fret board for the key of G.
G C and D and their 3 different shapes.

When you have those shapes down you can apply them to any of the other keys.That's not theory...it's fact.

steve davis - Posted - 05/22/2022:  14:44:07

Learning to feel the place and type of chord as it happens is a big key to playing by ear.

steve davis - Posted - 05/24/2022:  05:12:01

Dad spoke of how different chords make you feel as they happen.

HarleyQ - Posted - 05/24/2022:  20:49:55

The "C" cord always makes me feel "Latino".

steve davis - Posted - 05/27/2022:  10:36:50

In the key of G the C chord feels like there is more song to come.
The D chord feels like the end is nigh.
The E chord says that there will be A and D chords to follow
The B chord can precede the E,but in most cases the B precedes the C.

My old trick is pretending all keys are G and applying these same "rules" to any transposition.This is done by pretending the barre ia always "Open G".no matter the real name of the key.
I also like being able to think of the real keys and knowing the names of the chords by visualizing the fretboard and knowing how all chords move identically through their "barre,F and D" shapes.
This saves a lot of time when jamming or recording new pieces as quickly as possible.It helps in knowing what to expect and adjusting from a benchmark of likelihood.

steve davis - Posted - 05/27/2022:  16:23:47

I said "..how all chords move identically through their barre,F and D shapes."

I should have said "How all keys use the same Barre,F and D shapes.,identically"

Edited by - steve davis on 05/27/2022 16:26:57

steve davis - Posted - 05/28/2022:  06:24:41

It's a bit tough for me to put words to ear playing as Dad used so few words in teaching me.
Any chord beyond the I,IV and V were called "off-chords" by him.He'd say something like "Watch out for the off chord in the chorus."
In the key of G the "off chord" could be something like A,Em or F.

steve davis - Posted - 05/28/2022:  09:01:14

There's a certain uplifting quality to the key of C.
A bit of uneasiness to E and the minors.