Banjercat - Posted - 02/05/2022:  15:29:47

My old time banjo journey has me gravitating towards two finger styles presently, I'm enjoying it more than clawhammer, looking for recommendations on two finger instructional materials. I have the 3 volume set of Sébastien Schroeder's fine material, looking for more resources, song books, etc?
Thanks!

blazo - Posted - 02/05/2022:  16:15:28

Banjercat --

Brainjo - fingerstylebanjo.com/twofinger/

Matt Brown - twofingerbanjo.com/

Thumb Lead Banjer - 2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

"Two-Finger Banjo" by Dick Sheridan



I'm sure there are more but this ^ should keep you busy for a while.

Edited by - blazo on 02/05/2022 16:16:34

chip arnold - Posted - 02/05/2022:  17:39:11

A place for information and conversation with other 2-finger pickers.

What sort of 2-finger are you learning? I have a couple of basic lessons on Youtube.

facebook.com/groups/2fingerbanjo

Banjercat - Posted - 02/05/2022:  17:53:22

quote:

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Originally posted by chip arnold

A place for information and conversation with other 2-finger pickers.



What sort of 2-finger are you learning? I have a couple of basic lessons on Youtube.



facebook.com/groups/2fingerbanjo

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Thanks Chip, I've actually a pending application to join that group.  As for style? Not sure, I'm just starting out on the above mentioned books.  I do enjoy old time, love songs like Old Joe Clatk. Etc. 

I'll check you out on Youtube as well.

janolov - Posted - 02/06/2022:  02:37:21

I learned a lot from:

• Art Rosenbaum's three books: Old-Time Mountain Banjo, The Art of The Mountain Banjo, and Old-Time Banjo Book 


• Mike Seeger's DVD Southern Banjo Styles (with tab book)

Before the CD, DVD and Internet era I used the first of Art Rosenbaum's books and Pete Seeger's red book (from 1962)

Eric A - Posted - 02/06/2022:  04:20:17

Think of this one as more of a songbook, not an instructional book. The tabs are in simple frailing (aka clawhammer). Nothing fancy, basic melody, and therefore playable/adaptable to whatever two finger style you prefer. Over 200 songs plus exposure to a variety of tunings.

amazon.com/Banjo-Players-Songb...825602971

JSB88 - Posted - 02/06/2022:  05:53:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by blazo

Banjercat --

Brainjo - fingerstylebanjo.com/twofinger/

Matt Brown - twofingerbanjo.com/

Thumb Lead Banjer - 2ftlbanjer.wordpress.com/

"Two-Finger Banjo" by Dick Sheridan



I'm sure there are more but this ^ should keep you busy for a while.

---

All the above but also search Chris Berry on YouTube 

chip arnold - Posted - 02/06/2022:  08:53:22

Most of the 2-finger material available focuses on Thumb lead.
Art Rosenbaum's books mentioned by Jan Olov have a lot of both Thumb and Index lead tabs and information.

RG - Posted - 02/06/2022:  11:45:30

As John mentioned, for thumb lead (and a lot of other things banjo/guitar) check out Chris Berry's tutorial on "Ground Hog" here... all you need to know to play about any song/tune you want too in that two finger style.  For index lead, any CH book or tutorial will suffice as downstroke is also an index lead style.  Have fun!

Clifton Hicks - Posted - 02/11/2022:  08:55:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Banjercat

My old time banjo journey has me gravitating towards two finger styles presently, I'm enjoying it more than clawhammer, looking for recommendations on two finger instructional materials. I have the 3 volume set of Sébastien Schroeder's fine material, looking for more resources, song books, etc?

Thanks!

---

LINK: Traditional Two-Finger Banjo Techniques

LINK: Traditional Two-Finger Banjo for the Complete Beginner

DWFII - Posted - 02/11/2022:  10:21:03

So, is two-finger more independent of 'chords', then? Seems like he is thumbing and/or fingering in the same places, or in lieu of, where clawhammer would strum a chord.

janolov - Posted - 02/11/2022:  11:19:58

A lot of clawhammer players don't strum chords at all, and play single strings insteads! So in that case there is no difference between clawhammer and 2-finger. 2-finger index lead is more or less the same as clawhammer, but you play all strings up-picking (except when the thumb plays), and 2-finger thumb lead can also be both single string and chord brushes (up-brushes).

DWFII - Posted - 02/11/2022:  11:44:58

So maybe I'm getting into stuff that people like me aren't meant to know, but if a three note strum, for instance,  takes up the equivalent of a quarter note, what takes the place in two finger or strum-less clawhammer?

janolov - Posted - 02/11/2022:  12:36:19

Strumless you just pllay a single string, often it is the first string or the tonic of the chord (for example open third string if it is a G chord).

DWFII - Posted - 02/11/2022:  15:00:16

I understand the concept but not quite getting it. I presume with 2 finger you have a different tab than with clawhammer. I've seen several people playing clawhammer. I love it. I suspect it is a little bit more relaxed (for the right hand) than 3 finger? Pinky, ring and middle finger bracing th ehand on the head seems a bit more stable and less cramped than the book I had on 3 finger.

Makes me a bit restive. But I 'd like to understand the way in which a clawhammer player can paly without the strum...different tabs again? What is the "tonic" exactly? Is it always the 'name' note in the chord?

I'm thinking that if a C chord was written the strum-less CH player would fret second string at first fret and strike the second string. Is that right? Probably not) Is that the 'tonic'? I guess the better questio is what strings would be fretted and what strings would be struck if a strumless Ch player or a two-finger player were wanting to play where a C chord was called for?

Dumb questions I'm sure but I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around it.

Edited by - DWFII on 02/11/2022 15:03:33

DWFII - Posted - 02/11/2022:  15:28:40

^ Never mind i just got a clawhammer tab and a separate finger style tab for the same song. I begin to see it. I think. Again I apologize for the dumb question.

DWFII - Posted - 02/11/2022:  19:12:17

I've seen references to "thumb lead" and to "index lead" in relation to 2 finger style (?). What is the difference... if there is one?

chip arnold - Posted - 02/12/2022:  07:11:19

DWFII, T lead and I lead refers to which one plays the downbeat.

So an index lead sequence would be ITIT and a Thumb lead would be TITI. lot of players use both in a tune. T lead pickers often switch to I lead for notes on the 1st string. Other T lead pickers will get that note with the thumb by playing it higher up the neck on the 2nd string.

I play index lead and almost never use my thumb on the downbeat.

So the melody notes you play with your finger in clawhammer style will be played with the finger in Index lead 2-finger, but you would play those notes with your thumb in Thumb lead 2-finger.

If you look on my Hangout music page, there's a short audio tutorial on Index lead.

Or Chip Arnold Banjo on youtube for a couple of basic lessons.

Edited by - chip arnold on 02/12/2022 07:19:42

DWFII - Posted - 02/12/2022:  07:34:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

DWFII, T lead and I lead refers to which one plays the downbeat.

So an index lead sequence would be ITIT and a Thumb lead would be TITI. lot of players use both in a tune. T lead pickers often switch to I lead for notes on the 1st string. Other T lead pickers will get that note with the thumb by playing it higher up the neck on the 2nd string.

I play index lead and almost never use my thumb on the downbeat.

So the melody notes you play with your finger in clawhammer style will be played with the finger in Index lead 2-finger, but you would play those notes with your thumb in Thumb lead 2-finger.

If you look on my Hangout music page, there's a short audio tutorial on Index lead.

Or Chip Arnold Banjo on youtube for a couple of basic lessons.

---

Thank you. I went to YouTube. Bookmarked lesson one. Thanks for that, too.

Surprisingly enough I do know what a downbeat is.

So the question arises: if you're picking thumb lead (and the thumb strikes 5,4,3) what happens when the downbeat is on 1 or 2? Do you 'drop thumb' then?

Edited by - DWFII on 02/12/2022 07:36:14

chip arnold - Posted - 02/12/2022:  09:39:19

DWFII, if the thumb note is on the 2nd string you would just pick it. If the needed note is on the 1st string you could play it there with your index, or find the same note a few frets higher on the 2nd string and get it with your thumb.

"Drop thumb"  ... think of clawhammer sequence bump a dit ty. You would play that ITIT. Now play that sequence on strings 1 2 1 5. The thumb on string 2 is a drop thumb note because you dropped your thumb to an inside string.



Now imagine a bump a dit ty with Thumb lead. The basis of the style is that your thumb is already playing the inside strings. Many T lead pickers ONLY use the finger on the 1st string. But others "drop" the finger on the offbeat. So you could do a TITI sequence on strings 3 2 5 1. You could call it "drop finger" :-)

Edited by - chip arnold on 02/12/2022 09:48:59

RG - Posted - 02/12/2022:  11:19:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by DWFII

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

DWFII, T lead and I lead refers to which one plays the downbeat.

So an index lead sequence would be ITIT and a Thumb lead would be TITI. lot of players use both in a tune. T lead pickers often switch to I lead for notes on the 1st string. Other T lead pickers will get that note with the thumb by playing it higher up the neck on the 2nd string.

I play index lead and almost never use my thumb on the downbeat.

So the melody notes you play with your finger in clawhammer style will be played with the finger in Index lead 2-finger, but you would play those notes with your thumb in Thumb lead 2-finger.

If you look on my Hangout music page, there's a short audio tutorial on Index lead.

Or Chip Arnold Banjo on youtube for a couple of basic lessons.

---

Thank you. I went to YouTube. Bookmarked lesson one. Thanks for that, too.

Surprisingly enough I do know what a downbeat is.

So the question arises: if you're picking thumb lead (and the thumb strikes 5,4,3) what happens when the downbeat is on 1 or 2? Do you 'drop thumb' then?

---

Also, you could play it with the thumb... Roscoe Holcomb did this quite often in his playing, TTI, where the thumb hits the melody note on the first, then up to the 5th and then the index strikes the first... you get this nice syncopated rolling sound.  Here's my two finger thumb lead version of Clyde Troxell's "Wild Bill Jones" and you can hear this TTI in the first measure right out of the box. As Chip says, the thumb (usually) plays the second string.

Edited by - RG on 02/12/2022 11:22:06

Wild Bill Jones

 

chip arnold - Posted - 02/12/2022:  13:05:20

RG that sounds really good!!

DWFII - Posted - 02/12/2022:  15:14:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by janolov

A lot of clawhammer players don't strum chords at all, and play single strings insteads! So in that case there is no difference between clawhammer and 2-finger. 2-finger index lead is more or less the same as clawhammer, but you play all strings up-picking (except when the thumb plays), and 2-finger thumb lead can also be both single string and chord brushes (up-brushes).

---

A litttle beside the point but maybe to help me understand a little more, can you post a link to a tab (not too hard) that dempnstrates a full clawhammer tune without the strum?

Edited by - DWFII on 02/12/2022 15:24:00

chip arnold - Posted - 02/12/2022:  15:29:22

You don't need a tab. Take any c'hammer tune you can play and in place of each strum, hit just the 1st string. Listen to clawhammer players. Heavy strumming is not usually part of it.

Banjercat - Posted - 02/12/2022:  15:51:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by chip arnold

A place for information and conversation with other 2-finger pickers.



What sort of 2-finger are you learning? I have a couple of basic lessons on Youtube.



facebook.com/groups/2fingerbanjo

---

Thanks for the link. I just started with Dick Sheridan's 3 book set. It starts with index lead. Then thumb lead. And finally mixed lead. It's coming a lot more naturally to me. I close to hanging up clawhammer and focusing on this style. At least for now. 

DWFII - Posted - 02/12/2022:  16:03:31

quote:

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Originally posted by chip arnold

You don't need a tab. Take any c'hammer tune you can play and in place of each strum, hit just the 1st string. Listen to clawhammer players. Heavy strumming is not usually part of it.

---

I chuckle--I can't play any tunes yet. I have been practicing my right hand strokes, strums and patterns  for 10 ?) weeks now. I am just now learning the basic chords. i can do a partial C, a partial D, an Em and a D7. Currently I am practicing transitioning backand forth. I tried playing a very simplified version of Cripple Creek and just couldn't make sense  or sense the melody, The strums didn't help. I am not sure I like like strums. If I can't hear the melody I get lost.

I am not impatient. I don't think I am trying to get ahead of myself. I realize that this is a very complex and layered endeavor--to learn to play the banjo at 76 with no prior string instrument experience.  I have a personal teacher. He may be the only one in the area. And reputedly very good. But half an hour plus every day of the same exercises,  sometimes feels like I am treading water. Again, I don't think I am impatient... I just feel excited and energized and curious.

Anyway...tht's why I asked--I have tabs for Man of constant Sorrow, one for clawhammer and one for 2finger. The CH version is strum heavy (well maybe not real heavy) and the 2f version has none. But in the 2f version, it's like eight netes in 2/4 time. And Costant Sorrow isn't a particularly fast tune...at least the words don't go that fast.

If any of this makes sense, I'll be surprised...xD

RG - Posted - 02/12/2022:  17:48:20

quote:

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Originally posted by chip arnold

RG that sounds really good!!

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Thanks Chip!  It's more my '74 Ome X than anything else.

Edited by - RG on 02/12/2022 17:52:39

janolov - Posted - 02/12/2022:  23:08:49

quote:

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Originally posted by DWFII

quote:

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Originally posted by janolov

A lot of clawhammer players don't strum chords at all, and play single strings insteads! So in that case there is no difference between clawhammer and 2-finger. 2-finger index lead is more or less the same as clawhammer, but you play all strings up-picking (except when the thumb plays), and 2-finger thumb lead can also be both single string and chord brushes (up-brushes).

---

A litttle beside the point but maybe to help me understand a little more, can you post a link to a tab (not too hard) that dempnstrates a full clawhammer tune without the strum?

---

Here is a tab that shows several ways of playing Big-Eyed Rabbit. It starts with an easy bum-di-ty version with strums, but shows some other alternatives (the last version is a demonstration of thumb lead style: banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=22976

Here is another example: banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=24601

Perhaps you may also be intrested in this tab of Bile Dem Cabbage Down where I tried to show different components of typical thumb lead style: banjohangout.org/tab/browse.as...p;v=16157