Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/380222
Page: 1 2
bonnetteanthony - Posted - 12/31/2021: 15:14:32
I play Scruggs style banjo, and due to my deeper singing voice, I am strongly entertaining the idea of a pro-level long neck.
I love the idea of a custom Texas themed banjo, but not sure what that would cost.
I'm mostly interested in playability and tone, and my current plan is to do either a kavanjo or a mic inside a non-resonator, since It'll be used a lot on stage.
The non-custom options as I see them are an Old Vega for $3k,
a newer Deering Vega is $4k, a 60's ODE is $2k, and Gibson is $2k.
A custom from LeVan or Helix seems fun too, I don't know what they cost, but I love the idea of getting custom Tone, as well as appointments.
So...any options I'm not considering?
What would be the pros and cons of some of these I've mentioned?
Anyone have a LeVan or Helix long neck?
Edited by - bonnetteanthony on 12/31/2021 15:23:47
OldInTheNewWay - Posted - 12/31/2021: 15:20:50
I own a LeVan longneck. I highly recommend reaching out to him, especially if you want a themed banjo. It should be in your price range.
bonnetteanthony - Posted - 12/31/2021: 15:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by OldInTheNewWay
I own a LeVan longneck. I highly recommend reaching out to him, especially if you want a themed banjo. It should be in your price range.
Even that schematic is nice!
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 12/31/2021: 16:27:17
Indeed, @Ken LeVan is a great banjo builder, especially for long-necks. Actually, If my long-neck project build does not work out in the end, I have Ken at the top of my list for a great builder for quality and especially for affordability.
I hope it works out for you!
Fultoncreek - Posted - 12/31/2021: 16:51:43
Of the longnecks I've owned, my favorite was probably a custom Wildwood Troubadour by Mark Platin. It was a fine banjo in every respect. I don't know how many he made, but I saw one for sale not too long ago. Regrettably, I can't recall where.
sold1ode - Posted - 12/31/2021: 17:41:35
Hello. I have Seeger styled Vega pot tubaphone tonering with Carl Arcand longneck neck that I could consider selling as I am playing less banjo nowadays. If your interested and want pics let me know, John
Paul Roberts - Posted - 01/01/2022: 06:23:55
I've got a Gold Tone OT-800LN: Old Time Long Neck Banjo with Case advertised on the hangout.
It's new, and greatly reduced because it's slightly blemished. It will be set up by the Gold Tone luthier staff.
Fathand - Posted - 01/01/2022: 09:27:10
You have a deeper singing voice but play Scruggs style.
Aside from a long neck, you have other options.
Play "G" songs in C or D and capo up to E or F. Play "C" songs in G and capo up to A or Bb. You can continue to play popular Banjo Instrumentals in their traditional keys.
Put "Heavy" strings on your banjo and tune it down to F, you can capo up to F# or G.
mikehalloran - Posted - 01/01/2022: 12:05:52
If you want a long neck, you’ll find plenty of enablers around here, myself included.
Eric A - Posted - 01/01/2022: 12:23:30
Seems like 1960's Gibson RB-175's come up for sale with some frequency.
I haven't taken the plunge, but I like my RB-170 which is the standard length version. These are well made, brass hoop open back banjos. Known for good volume.
Edited by - Eric A on 01/01/2022 12:26:13
Lew H - Posted - 01/01/2022: 14:38:31
If you want a lower tone but not stretch your arm and bump into door facings and mic stands, you can simply put heavy gauge string on a regular scale 5-string. I buy single strings one notch heavier than medium for tuning to open E.
bonnetteanthony - Posted - 01/01/2022: 20:35:12
quote:
Originally posted by Fathand
You have a deeper singing voice but play Scruggs style.
Aside from a long neck, you have other options.
Play "G" songs in C or D and capo up to E or F. Play "C" songs in G and capo up to A or Bb. You can continue to play popular Banjo Instrumentals in their traditional keys.
Put "Heavy" strings on your banjo and tune it down to F, you can capo up to F# or G.
Yessir, I am currently doing all these things, but I'm enamored with the idea of all the options a long neck would provide.
I'm currently carrying two banjos to gigs, one tuned down with OME heavy strings and one standard.
Seems like a long neck could replace both, unless I'm missing something, which is squarely inside the realm of possibility.
Helix - Posted - 01/02/2022: 00:27:56
I love the idea of getting custom Tone, as well as appointments.
No, you are not missing anything, many of us are mainstreaming longneck into bluegrass and other pop/top 40/rock/country opportunities.
I play on stage what I build, so the laboratory is with me at all times. The "tell" for me is at the jam where all the banjos come out to play.
You will either use spikes or a sliding capo to reset during performances.
What are your weight specs? How about 3 hours later during the gig?
So the builder you want to commission should have a good idea of the form and content of what you are after.
You can indulge in "appointments" if you like.
Too many people can't handle Maple, nor the weight, so notice the move to woodies, away from metal rims with wooden liners, or steel pipe.
I follow the debate about where any tone comes from or what material is used to produce that tone. The meanness of that debate has polarized many people without proper information. An O-scope is an impartial observer.
Here's a Black Walnut rim with Maple neck and gold assist inside the rim for passive distribution. American hardware, so Made in USA.
Many of my customers are road warriors like yourself, so we all want what works.
Jon Stewart of the Kingston Trio had a white Longneck, someone might know what it was, it didn't make him sound any better.
Edited by - Helix on 01/02/2022 00:32:59
PaulRF - Posted - 01/02/2022: 01:43:43
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
I play Scruggs style banjo, and due to my deeper singing voice, I am strongly entertaining the idea of a pro-level long neck.
I love the idea of a custom Texas themed banjo, but not sure what that would cost.
I'm mostly interested in playability and tone, and my current plan is to do either a kavanjo or a mic inside a non-resonator, since It'll be used a lot on stage.
The non-custom options as I see them are an Old Vega for $3k,
a newer Deering Vega is $4k, a 60's ODE is $2k, and Gibson is $2k.
A custom from LeVan or Helix seems fun too, I don't know what they cost, but I love the idea of getting custom Tone, as well as appointments.
So...any options I'm not considering?
What would be the pros and cons of some of these I've mentioned?
Anyone have a LeVan or Helix long neck?
Ken LeVan does high quality work and you will have a banjo to be proud of. Will be ordering a Lute from him one day when our dollar becomes stronger.
levanbanjos.com/levanbanjos.le...Home.html
Edited by - PaulRF on 01/02/2022 01:45:07
Helix - Posted - 01/02/2022: 05:18:27
PaulRF, I hope you get the best one he ever made. Best wishes for the new year.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/02/2022: 06:47:33
It's worth noting, that there are different kinds of longnecks— a picture below shows the various types compared to a normal banjo on the left.
The "original" one with a neck lengthened for Pete Seeger by John D'Angelico, had two extra frets, so was an "F" —that is the kind I built for Garrett and he showed in the pictures—Thanks Garrett!
Garrett's is 4th from the left in the picture below, and the F (2+) is my favorite longneck type, In fact Garrett's is my favorite longneck, and I've made quite a few going back to 1963.
The next iteration was Pete Seeger's one with three extra frets, which is an "E", and that became the "Pete Seeger" model for Vega, 2nd from the left below.
The other variable thing about longnecks is the 5th string position—Eric Darling (top left in the picture below) had a longneck which had the 5th string peg moved down one fret. This facilitates putting a capo on what would be the 5th fret on a normal banjo so you can play in C using G chord positions.
Virtually all longneck banjos in their heyday were used by folksingers who changed key all the time and had to match their vocal ranges.
The 5th string peg at the 9th fret "Eric Darling" position was marketed by Vega as the "Excel" or "Exel, and was used by Alex Hassliev, which you can see in the picture above.
Below, a Pete Seeger (PS-5) and an Excel (they were usually blonde) now very rare, as Vega never made many of them.
The Excel position is my favorite, and that's what's on Garrett's banjo, giving it the look of a regular Pete Seeger with 7 frets above the peg. For this, you need a distinctive inlay at what would normally be the 5th fret as a "reminder".
The banjo on the far right of my comparison picture is a normal banjo with the 5th peg at the 6th fret, which would be the excel position for a regular scale banjo.
Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/02/2022 06:52:21
bonnetteanthony - Posted - 01/02/2022: 11:20:14
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
PaulRF - Posted - 01/02/2022: 12:38:42
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
I know that feeling. When waiting for my Bishline to be built and delivered it was like time slowed down.
Paul
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/02/2022: 15:25:26
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
I have converted three old Tubaphone pots that I remember, and they all sound very good—old Vega Tu-ba-phones and Whyte Laydies are very good banjos. A longneck tubaphone sounds a lot like my old archtop Granada—the extra mass of the longer neck gives them more oomph. The old ones really don't sound better than a new one, though, at least not in my experience
Here are some pictures:
The old ones all have 28 hooks, the 60s Pete Seegers have 24.
I think 3K is a lot to pay for a converted old Vega pot, but as you say, you might not have to wait a year.
If I was going to make one, it would most likely be a year, even if I was converting an old pot since you are talking about special inlays—others may be able to turn it over faster.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/02/2022: 16:15:19
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
I have converted three old Tubaphone pots that I remember, and they all sound very good—old Vega Tu-ba-phones and Whyte Laydies are very good banjos. A longneck tubaphone sounds a lot like my old archtop Granada—the extra mass of the longer neck gives them more oomph. The old ones really don't sound better than a new one, though, at least not in my experience
Here are some pictures:
The old ones all have 28 hooks, the 60s Pete Seegers have 24.
I think 3K is a lot to pay for a converted old Vega pot, but as you say, you might not have to wait a year.
If I was going to make one, it would most likely be a year, even if I was converting an old pot since you are talking about special inlays—others may be able to turn it over faster.
Ken,
Those are all tubaphones in that photo, right?
Russ
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/02/2022: 18:20:05
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
I have converted three old Tubaphone pots that I remember, and they all sound very good—old Vega Tu-ba-phones and Whyte Laydies are very good banjos. A longneck tubaphone sounds a lot like my old archtop Granada—the extra mass of the longer neck gives them more oomph. The old ones really don't sound better than a new one, though, at least not in my experience
Here are some pictures:
The old ones all have 28 hooks, the 60s Pete Seegers have 24.
I think 3K is a lot to pay for a converted old Vega pot, but as you say, you might not have to wait a year.
If I was going to make one, it would most likely be a year, even if I was converting an old pot since you are talking about special inlays—others may be able to turn it over faster.
Ken,
Those are all tubaphones in that photo, right?
Russ
Yes they are—all 28 hook ones with bracket bands and dowel sticks.
They kept the Tu-Ba-Phone tone ring but changed the bracket band to a thinner "trim strip" with bolted-through-the-rim shoes in the late 1950s and around 1960 eliminated the dowel stick and had a kind of co-rod setup with set screws to adjust the neck angle.
The Folk era PS 5 was different than the pictures I showed—here's an actual 1962 one.
Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/02/2022 18:21:36
Helix - Posted - 01/03/2022: 03:23:13
Great work, very nice.
I dispute the need to move the 5th peg so one can play in C.
Note the Norman capo that Alex used.
I saw him play in concert with the 'replacement' Limeliters squad. The Limeliters never had a hit. "Things go better with coke.' Was it. They were the last of the 'concert' folksingers with blazers
He played only basic strum and was not 'adventurous' with it.
I use a Shubb with no problem playing in C with standard placement of the 5th peg.
I would have zero use for the limitations of a two fret longneck.
Edited by - Helix on 01/03/2022 03:25:27
Helix - Posted - 01/03/2022: 03:27:02
Ken, are you making reproduction Vega necks?
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/03/2022: 05:25:52
quote:
Originally posted by Helix
Ken, are you making reproduction Vega necks?
I haven't done any for 10 years, but wouldn't have a problem with an old Vega pot—one customer actually wrote and got permission from Janet Deering even though the banjo was genuinely a Vega. I make the necks wider than Pete Seegers and use curly maple with electric bass truss rods, so there enough differences that nobody would think they were original ones.
I think when Deering started to threaten and hassle Wyatt Fawley back then, it scared a lot of people who were making necks—it definitely scared Wyatt Fawley.
The person I converted the No.9 for said he wanted the inlay on the peg head to look as much like a late 50s original as possible (I had to do it twice to get that goofy serif type to look right), and said he would be responsible for any legal problems that arose, but none did. He even wanted a duplicate dowel stick with all the stampings and patent #s made in curly maple to match the neck.
The original ornately inlaid and engraved plectrum neck with a carved heel with the original dowel stick intact was given to a person who needed to replace the neck on another Vega plectrum, so now that banjo is obviously a marriage with mismatching serial #s, and the other one is a funny impossibility—a 1919 No.9 Pete Seeger longneck made the year he was born, anticipating he would invent it later on.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/03/2022: 06:09:18
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by bonnetteanthony
Does anyone have any experience with the sound of a 20's Vega pot with a long neck? Especially if played Scruggs style? Those seem like they can be had around 3k.
Also I know I should grow up, but it's gonna be hard for me to wait a year for a custom banjo to be made.
I have converted three old Tubaphone pots that I remember, and they all sound very good—old Vega Tu-ba-phones and Whyte Laydies are very good banjos. A longneck tubaphone sounds a lot like my old archtop Granada—the extra mass of the longer neck gives them more oomph. The old ones really don't sound better than a new one, though, at least not in my experience
Here are some pictures:
The old ones all have 28 hooks, the 60s Pete Seegers have 24.
I think 3K is a lot to pay for a converted old Vega pot, but as you say, you might not have to wait a year.
If I was going to make one, it would most likely be a year, even if I was converting an old pot since you are talking about special inlays—others may be able to turn it over faster.
Ken,
Those are all tubaphones in that photo, right?
Russ
Yes they are—all 28 hook ones with bracket bands and dowel sticks.
They kept the Tu-Ba-Phone tone ring but changed the bracket band to a thinner "trim strip" with bolted-through-the-rim shoes in the late 1950s and around 1960 eliminated the dowel stick and had a kind of co-rod setup with set screws to adjust the neck angle.
The Folk era PS 5 was different than the pictures I showed—here's an actual 1962 one.
Ken,
Thank you for all the helpful and very interesting info on the Pete Seeger longnecks.
That PS-5 is a beauty, well preserved (and hopefully well played :)!
In that reply to Helix, you mentioned you still make reproduction tubaphone pots. I have recently had the opportunity to acquire some excellent dried white oak at a local land conservancy near where I live (from a ~36 inch DBH forest-tree), and I was thinking if it would be possible for me to try to carve a new long-neck from hardwood this time, and learning from my mistakes I made with my previous long-neck build. Then, maybe I could try to properly attach a tubaphone pot to it. It seems like a "tubaphone" sound is what I have been thinking about.
Do you think something like that might work out??
Thanks,
Russ
Edited by - BeeEnvironment on 01/03/2022 06:11:36
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/03/2022: 07:45:10
Ken,
Thank you for all the helpful and very interesting info on the Pete Seeger longnecks.
That PS-5 is a beauty, well preserved (and hopefully well played :)!
In that reply to Helix, you mentioned you still make reproduction tubaphone pots. I have recently had the opportunity to acquire some excellent dried white oak at a local land conservancy near where I live (from a ~36 inch DBH forest-tree), and I was thinking if it would be possible for me to try to carve a new long-neck from hardwood this time, and learning from my mistakes I made with my previous long-neck build. Then, maybe I could try to properly attach a tubaphone pot to it. It seems like a "tubaphone" sound is what I have been thinking about.
Do you think something like that might work out??
Thanks,
Russ,
The oak would work out fine. I have made several oak banjos, both rims and necks—the Garrett longneck earlier in this thread is oak, and my favorite longneck.
Ken
Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/03/2022 07:45:37
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/03/2022: 10:46:08
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
Ken,
Thank you for all the helpful and very interesting info on the Pete Seeger longnecks.
That PS-5 is a beauty, well preserved (and hopefully well played :)!
In that reply to Helix, you mentioned you still make reproduction tubaphone pots. I have recently had the opportunity to acquire some excellent dried white oak at a local land conservancy near where I live (from a ~36 inch DBH forest-tree), and I was thinking if it would be possible for me to try to carve a new long-neck from hardwood this time, and learning from my mistakes I made with my previous long-neck build. Then, maybe I could try to properly attach a tubaphone pot to it. It seems like a "tubaphone" sound is what I have been thinking about.
Do you think something like that might work out??
Thanks,
Russ,
The oak would work out fine. I have made several oak banjos, both rims and necks—the Garrett longneck earlier in this thread is oak, and my favorite longneck.
Ken
Ken,
Thanks for the advice. I am going to pick up that white oak soon, so the snow we might get soon won't dampen it :)!
I also just sent you a message through the hangout about this, so I hope it gets through with the spotty internet where I live,
Best regards,
Russ A.
mikehalloran - Posted - 01/05/2022: 07:59:39
If you look at enough vintage PS-5s and Exels (Vega spelled it at least 3 different ways on the label), you’ll notice that most necks have stain on the heel and the back of the headstock where it meets the neck. This is to cover the burn marks left by the carving machines.
All Excels had blonde necks as did some PS-5s including the ones that Pete owned and mine. Blonde was a $100+ add-on charge and it indicates a hand-carved neck. A hundred bills was a lot of money in the 1960s.
If you look at the blondies, you’ll see many variations of neck widths and inlays There was one in the Classifieds awhile back with an extra-wide neck and stars only—no dots. If I still played, it would now be mine.
Because Gryphon Strings is in my neighborhood, I have had many opportunities over the years to play vintage PS-5s, dowel and co-rod, side by side with the Deering Vega long neck. The Deering workmanship and materials are superior but it doesn’t sound quite the same as the vintage Vega. I don’t think it’s the 1/16” difference in head size but rather the multi-ply Waverly pot used in the vintage banjos vs the 3-ply Deering. It doesn’t make much of a difference but I can hear it. Were I touring again, I’d play the Deering in a stone cold second but I’d record with my early ‘60s PS-5.
BTW, many make a big deal about the fact that the early PS-5s have dowel sticks—certainly are worth more on the market. I hear no difference between the co-rod and dowel versions that can't be accounted for by setup.
Edited by - mikehalloran on 01/05/2022 08:05:42
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/05/2022: 11:52:32
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloran
If you look at enough vintage PS-5s and Exels (Vega spelled it at least 3 different ways on the label), you’ll notice that most necks have stain on the heel and the back of the headstock where it meets the neck. This is to cover the burn marks left by the carving machines.
All Excels had blonde necks as did some PS-5s including the ones that Pete owned and mine. Blonde was a $100+ add-on charge and it indicates a hand-carved neck. A hundred bills was a lot of money in the 1960s.
If you look at the blondies, you’ll see many variations of neck widths and inlays There was one in the Classifieds awhile back with an extra-wide neck and stars only—no dots. If I still played, it would now be mine.
Because Gryphon Strings is in my neighborhood, I have had many opportunities over the years to play vintage PS-5s, dowel and co-rod, side by side with the Deering Vega long neck. The Deering workmanship and materials are superior but it doesn’t sound quite the same as the vintage Vega. I don’t think it’s the 1/16” difference in head size but rather the multi-ply Waverly pot used in the vintage banjos vs the 3-ply Deering. It doesn’t make much of a difference but I can hear it. Were I touring again, I’d play the Deering in a stone cold second but I’d record with my early ‘60s PS-5.
BTW, many make a big deal about the fact that the early PS-5s have dowel sticks—certainly are worth more on the market. I hear no difference between the co-rod and dowel versions that can't be accounted for by setup.
Mike, I currently have two—one is a genuine 1962 PS-5 and the other one an early 1960s Professional pot that I made a Seeger neck for.
The Pro pot and the PS-5 have the exact same brown maple 7-ply rims that Vega made from some kind of wooden conduit.
The PS-5 has the thin trim strip and bolted through shoes, the Pro pot was not drilled, and had a bracket flange and cobra hooks that I replaced with a 1" x 1/8" bracket band similar to the old Vega ones. it has 24 shoes as opposed to the earlier 28, but I kept the original tension hoop
My neck is wider than the PS-5, which to me is too narrow up near the nut.
Anyway, the Pro pot one sounds better to me than the PS-5, and has more of the sound I associate with the old Kingston Trio Capitol records.
The difference is not in the rim because they are the same (but you know I am not a "rim supremacist") Maybe it's the bracket band, maybe it's the better neck I made. maybe it's the Vegalon head—who knows?, but it sounds better. It's the banjo I used to make comparative sound files vs my 1927 Granada (which has a resonator).
Infortunately, I have never made a comparison vs the PS-5, but here it is vs the old Granada.
Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/05/2022 11:56:13
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/06/2022: 14:27:49
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
I suspect we are going to see a lot of these popping up!
ebay.com/itm/384657798406?mkev...l%3Dmkcid
Ken,
Yeah, I saw those a while back, but I was a bit suspicious of them, to be honest. If I do buy a tuba phone pot, I think a hand-built white oak neck (even a tad bit crudely constructed) would be maybe better than over-seas ones.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/07/2022: 05:56:07
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
I suspect we are going to see a lot of these popping up!
ebay.com/itm/384657798406?mkev...l%3Dmkcid
Ken,
Yeah, I saw those a while back, but I was a bit suspicious of them, to be honest. If I do buy a tuba phone pot, I think a hand-built white oak neck (even a tad bit crudely constructed) would be maybe better than over-seas ones.
Of course, if you built your own neck, that would be the best of all worlds—you already have the pine prototype you built under your belt, and you learned a lot. The oak one made from local wood will be a labor of love.
I wouldn't dismiss a neck that was made "overseas" as being categorically inferior, though, so the jury is still out on those longnecks—we will find out, I'm sure. The Eastman neo-Whyte Laydie necks made in China are well regarded from what I hear, and a very large banjo company in this country who specializes in the lower price points sources most of the parts from abroad— I'm not sure what "Made in the USA" even means these days— assembled? Everybody loves Gotoh tuners and they are made in Japan. Where are all these aftermarket Mastertone flanges, tension hoops, hooks, nuts, yada yada made?
It's like the old thing of not really wanting to know how sausage is made—the only way you can be sure of how well something is made is if it's made by someone you know or, if you make it yourself.
Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/07/2022 05:57:00
Helix - Posted - 01/08/2022: 04:38:01
BeeEnvironment: These necks have been advertised here on the hangout for at least a decade.
The wood is green, the inlays are thin, returns are a nightmare.
Placement of side dots is off, I started using 5mm abalone dots half in the binding
The carved heels are shallow and not hand-carved.
No one seems to know what trees are cut down for this purpose.
I know of one person who buys a dozen just to get a couple of good necks.
I put an Eastman neck on a real Stromberg Cup-O-Phone converting it to a 5-string, the old neck is safe.
The Eastman is superb quality
I enjoy making double cut longnecks, because you can't buy a good one, nor did they make them.
I'm made in USA, Made in America, Made in Arizona.
And Bee, go and get yourself a real Pennsylvania Trademark at your Secretary of State's office, then you could claim (TM) since 2022.
I renewed mine in 2017.
My first Grapefruit used one of these necks, then the romantic GAVE the banjo to a girl who kept it and dumped him, dang. there's a song in there somewhere.
My favorite longneck peghead is the RB180 bowtie, it's more balanced visually.
Let us know, Anthony Bonnette how you make out.
Fighter escort, everything ok here?
Edited by - Helix on 01/08/2022 04:55:43
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/08/2022: 10:00:14
Larry, What all have you trademarked? There are a lot of companies out there called "Helix". Just curious.
Helix - Posted - 01/08/2022: 23:40:20
Ken, let's not. Contact me off forum if you please, this thread was about longneck shopping.
bonnetteanthony - Posted - 01/09/2022: 08:35:01
So...I found a deal too good to pass up, on a Gold Tone OT-800LN. Long neck, bracket band, no holes in the rim (unlike the "real" Vegas), and GT's version of a tubaphone.
Thanks everybody for the long neck chit chat, I love it.
Has anybody played an OT800? The short neck or the long?
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/09/2022: 09:13:30
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
I suspect we are going to see a lot of these popping up!
ebay.com/itm/384657798406?mkev...l%3Dmkcid
Ken,
Yeah, I saw those a while back, but I was a bit suspicious of them, to be honest. If I do buy a tuba phone pot, I think a hand-built white oak neck (even a tad bit crudely constructed) would be maybe better than over-seas ones.
Of course, if you built your own neck, that would be the best of all worlds—you already have the pine prototype you built under your belt, and you learned a lot. The oak one made from local wood will be a labor of love.
I wouldn't dismiss a neck that was made "overseas" as being categorically inferior, though, so the jury is still out on those longnecks—we will find out, I'm sure. The Eastman neo-Whyte Laydie necks made in China are well regarded from what I hear, and a very large banjo company in this country who specializes in the lower price points sources most of the parts from abroad— I'm not sure what "Made in the USA" even means these days— assembled? Everybody loves Gotoh tuners and they are made in Japan. Where are all these aftermarket Mastertone flanges, tension hoops, hooks, nuts, yada yada made?
It's like the old thing of not really wanting to know how sausage is made—the only way you can be sure of how well something is made is if it's made by someone you know or, if you make it yourself.
Mr. Levan,
Thanks for your advice and compliments! I have found that the hardest part of the neck build, perhaps, is the correct angle of the neck joint to the pot, and perhaps the part of making the correct depth of the neck heel so to fit lag bolts or bolts. Neck width also has been a bit tricky, because I personally like a wider neck towards the peghead for long-necks.
Do you recommend any particular tools/saws for me to consider purchasing for making this white oak neck???
Thanks for all your help!
Russ A.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/09/2022: 09:20:05
quote:
Originally posted by Helix
BeeEnvironment: These necks have been advertised here on the hangout for at least a decade.
The wood is green, the inlays are thin, returns are a nightmare.
Placement of side dots is off, I started using 5mm abalone dots half in the binding
The carved heels are shallow and not hand-carved.
No one seems to know what trees are cut down for this purpose.
I know of one person who buys a dozen just to get a couple of good necks.
I put an Eastman neck on a real Stromberg Cup-O-Phone converting it to a 5-string, the old neck is safe.
The Eastman is superb quality
I enjoy making double cut longnecks, because you can't buy a good one, nor did they make them.
I'm made in USA, Made in America, Made in Arizona.
And Bee, go and get yourself a real Pennsylvania Trademark at your Secretary of State's office, then you could claim (TM) since 2022.
I renewed mine in 2017.
My first Grapefruit used one of these necks, then the romantic GAVE the banjo to a girl who kept it and dumped him, dang. there's a song in there somewhere.
My favorite longneck peghead is the RB180 bowtie, it's more balanced visually.
Let us know, Anthony Bonnette how you make out.
Fighter escort, everything ok here?
Helix,
Thank you for you advice as well! That is a interesting idea about the trademark, I never thought about it! I might wait a little while though, until I complete a nicely made banjo.
I think that, for a hardwood as dense as White Oak, I am going to have to purchase, at the minimum, a few very sharp hand-tools to carve the neck out perhaps. I think I am going to try using coordinator rods as well. Installing the lag bolts and setting the neck angle might be a little tricky though.
Russ A.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/09/2022: 13:49:53
Mr. Levan,
Thanks for your advice and compliments! I have found that the hardest part of the neck build, perhaps, is the correct angle of the neck joint to the pot, and perhaps the part of making the correct depth of the neck heel so to fit lag bolts or bolts. Neck width also has been a bit tricky, because I personally like a wider neck towards the peghead for long-necks.
Do you recommend any particular tools/saws for me to consider purchasing for making this white oak neck???
Thanks for all your help!
Russ A.
Toolwise, much depends on how you plan to make the neck. What tools do you have at your disposal?
If I was going to make a banjo neck with all hand tools, I would approach it differently than I do with a bandsaw and jointer.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/09/2022: 15:49:37
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
Mr. Levan,
Thanks for your advice and compliments! I have found that the hardest part of the neck build, perhaps, is the correct angle of the neck joint to the pot, and perhaps the part of making the correct depth of the neck heel so to fit lag bolts or bolts. Neck width also has been a bit tricky, because I personally like a wider neck towards the peghead for long-necks.
Do you recommend any particular tools/saws for me to consider purchasing for making this white oak neck???
Thanks for all your help!
Russ A.
Toolwise, much depends on how you plan to make the neck. What tools do you have at your disposal?
If I was going to make a banjo neck with all hand tools, I would approach it differently than I do with a bandsaw and jointer.
Ken,
Unfortunately, I do not have many tools, but here is a list of everything me and my family has now:
-Reciprocating Saw (6 inch blade) - Electric
-Scroll saw, can cut wood up to 4.5 inches high - Electric (I used this in my last build for cutting the fret slots)
-2 files. One is for extra-fine filing. The other has extra large teeth for filing large quantities of wood.
-Electric Drill
-2 sharp hand-saws. I used both of these for cutting the white pine neck in my last build.
-4 pocket knifes, but only 1 has a sharp and large blade. I used that one for the majority of my previous build.
I also have a 12 inch chainsaw for cutting firewood here.
That is everything me and my family has.
Unfortunately, I just learned today that the land manager of the local conservancy (who told me he had some dried white oak), meant that he had recently fallen white oak that has been kept in a tractor shed for only a month or so. It probably is very green inside still, and wet. Now, I do not think I will have the chance to use the white oak. I do not think there is any folks around here that sell dried hardwood lumber in single pieces also. It was back only 40 or 50 years ago when there were a few sawmills that had some neat dried lumber in these parts.
Although now it seems a dried hardwood source might be tricky to come by here, I was thinking of making the long neck this time by using mainly planers or sharp "chisels" (if that is the correct word for it?). Something for making accurate 'angles' for the neck would also be very helpful, but I do not know what the tool for that would be.
Thanks again for your help,
Russ A.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/09/2022: 16:03:34
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
Unfortunately, I just learned today that the land manager of the local conservancy (who told me he had some dried white oak), meant that he had recently fallen white oak that has been kept in a tractor shed for only a month or so. It probably is very green inside still, and wet. Now, I do not think I will have the chance to use the white oak. I do not think there is any folks around here that sell dried hardwood lumber in single pieces also. It was back only 40 or 50 years ago when there were a few sawmills that had some neat dried lumber in these parts.
Although now it seems a dried hardwood source might be tricky to come by here, I was thinking of making the long neck this time by using mainly planers or sharp "chisels" (if that is the correct word for it?). Something for making accurate 'angles' for the neck would also be very helpful, but I do not know what the tool for that would be.
Thanks again for your help,
Russ A.
Russ,
Since the white oak is unseasoned, and you won't be using that, you should consider using some wood that's easier to work with hand tools, such as cherry or walnut.
I know someone who works at the Brandywine Conservancy (if that's the local conservancy you are referring to), who has a cabin very close to me and comes here frequently. Next time she comes up I could give her some cherry that would work for your neck and she could pass it along to you.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/09/2022: 16:24:50
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
Unfortunately, I just learned today that the land manager of the local conservancy (who told me he had some dried white oak), meant that he had recently fallen white oak that has been kept in a tractor shed for only a month or so. It probably is very green inside still, and wet. Now, I do not think I will have the chance to use the white oak. I do not think there is any folks around here that sell dried hardwood lumber in single pieces also. It was back only 40 or 50 years ago when there were a few sawmills that had some neat dried lumber in these parts.
Although now it seems a dried hardwood source might be tricky to come by here, I was thinking of making the long neck this time by using mainly planers or sharp "chisels" (if that is the correct word for it?). Something for making accurate 'angles' for the neck would also be very helpful, but I do not know what the tool for that would be.
Thanks again for your help,
Russ A.
Russ,
Since the white oak is unseasoned, and you won't be using that, you should consider using some wood that's easier to work with hand tools, such as cherry or walnut.
I know someone who works at the Brandywine Conservancy (if that's the local conservancy you are referring to), who has a cabin very close to me and comes here frequently. Next time she comes up I could give her some cherry that would work for your neck and she could pass it along to you.
Ken,
That is very kind of you! Thank you for your offer! I never thought about giving cherry a try, but as you said it would be definitely easier to carve with using hand tools. The Brandywine Conservancy is located just a few miles from where I live, but the conservancy that I volunteer at (and trying to land a job in) is called the Land Conservancy For Southern Chester County. It is smaller and not as well known.
Maybe it will be possible for me to pick up the wood at their headquarters right here in Chadds Ford PA (If that is where she works?). The building is right down the road 4 or 5 miles.
Thanks so much for all the help,
Russ A.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/09/2022: 17:17:55
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
Unfortunately, I just learned today that the land manager of the local conservancy (who told me he had some dried white oak), meant that he had recently fallen white oak that has been kept in a tractor shed for only a month or so. It probably is very green inside still, and wet. Now, I do not think I will have the chance to use the white oak. I do not think there is any folks around here that sell dried hardwood lumber in single pieces also. It was back only 40 or 50 years ago when there were a few sawmills that had some neat dried lumber in these parts.
Although now it seems a dried hardwood source might be tricky to come by here, I was thinking of making the long neck this time by using mainly planers or sharp "chisels" (if that is the correct word for it?). Something for making accurate 'angles' for the neck would also be very helpful, but I do not know what the tool for that would be.
Thanks again for your help,
Russ A.
Russ,
Since the white oak is unseasoned, and you won't be using that, you should consider using some wood that's easier to work with hand tools, such as cherry or walnut.
I know someone who works at the Brandywine Conservancy (if that's the local conservancy you are referring to), who has a cabin very close to me and comes here frequently. Next time she comes up I could give her some cherry that would work for your neck and she could pass it along to you.
Ken,
That is very kind of you! Thank you for your offer! I never thought about giving cherry a try, but as you said it would be definitely easier to carve with using hand tools. The Brandywine Conservancy is located just a few miles from where I live, but the conservancy that I volunteer at (and trying to land a job in) is called the Land Conservancy For Southern Chester County. It is smaller and not as well known.
Maybe it will be possible for me to pick up the wood at their headquarters right here in Chadds Ford PA (If that is where she works?). The building is right down the road 4 or 5 miles.
Thanks so much for all the help,
Russ A.
I don't know when she'll be up next, but I'll give you a heads up. President's day for sure if not before. Her driveway just got plowed yesterday.
Helix - Posted - 01/10/2022: 01:45:26
bonnetteanthony I recently mounted an OT800 longneck on an Osage Orange rim.
I have seen and heard the Whyte Lady version.
The tubaphone version should play bluegrass just fine.
I haven't had the opportunity to hear one over here.
I suggest more spikes than you are used to: 7,8,9,10,12/14. You can take the 5th string off of the root note.
Beeenvironment: I really enjoy your enthusiasm. A nice piece of Cherry would be great for your neck, I use a 3-piece Cherry longneck since 2009.
But also consider the source of repurposed furniture.
Henkel and Harris make Cherry furniture from Burlington, Virginia. But I found a chest of drawers derelict in an alley just before it got rained on.
I used everything in that piece from necks and rims to armrests, bridges and truss rod covers. Furniture has already been through the planer.
Copying excess data and pictures sometimes obscures the original intent of the OP, who went shopping.
Edited by - Helix on 01/10/2022 02:02:04
Helix - Posted - 01/10/2022: 02:12:03
Here's what I found in the alley.
BeeEnvironment - Posted - 01/10/2022: 13:16:36
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan
quote:
Originally posted by BeeEnvironment
Unfortunately, I just learned today that the land manager of the local conservancy (who told me he had some dried white oak), meant that he had recently fallen white oak that has been kept in a tractor shed for only a month or so. It probably is very green inside still, and wet. Now, I do not think I will have the chance to use the white oak. I do not think there is any folks around here that sell dried hardwood lumber in single pieces also. It was back only 40 or 50 years ago when there were a few sawmills that had some neat dried lumber in these parts.
Although now it seems a dried hardwood source might be tricky to come by here, I was thinking of making the long neck this time by using mainly planers or sharp "chisels" (if that is the correct word for it?). Something for making accurate 'angles' for the neck would also be very helpful, but I do not know what the tool for that would be.
Thanks again for your help,
Russ A.
Russ,
Since the white oak is unseasoned, and you won't be using that, you should consider using some wood that's easier to work with hand tools, such as cherry or walnut.
I know someone who works at the Brandywine Conservancy (if that's the local conservancy you are referring to), who has a cabin very close to me and comes here frequently. Next time she comes up I could give her some cherry that would work for your neck and she could pass it along to you.
Ken,
That is very kind of you! Thank you for your offer! I never thought about giving cherry a try, but as you said it would be definitely easier to carve with using hand tools. The Brandywine Conservancy is located just a few miles from where I live, but the conservancy that I volunteer at (and trying to land a job in) is called the Land Conservancy For Southern Chester County. It is smaller and not as well known.
Maybe it will be possible for me to pick up the wood at their headquarters right here in Chadds Ford PA (If that is where she works?). The building is right down the road 4 or 5 miles.
Thanks so much for all the help,
Russ A.
I don't know when she'll be up next, but I'll give you a heads up. President's day for sure if not before. Her driveway just got plowed yesterday.
Ken,
Thanks so much for the help! I really appreciate it,
Russ A.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/10/2022: 14:01:26
Ken,
Thanks so much for the help! I really appreciate it,
Russ A.
Russ— I found a nice piece of cherry, and I remember the tree it came from, so I'll be able to help you out. I'll include some other things that will be helpful to you.
My Brandywine Conservancy friend says she'll be happy to take it back to Chadd's Ford and you can pick it up there—She'll be coming here President's Day weekend, maybe to start making maple syrup.
Ken LeVan - Posted - 01/10/2022: 14:05:00
Bonnettanthony,
This has been an interesting thread which has gone off in different directions because of the specialized interest in longnecks.
I hope you found what you were looking for. Please let me know if I can be of any help.
Ken
Page: 1 2
