thunderfan - Posted - 08/10/2021:  11:37:50

I an fairly new to banjo. I can play piano a little and am familiar with sheet music. When I visited the Oklahoma banjo museum they mentioned that banjos used to be an orchestra instrument which leads me to believe you can read sheet music with them as you would with a classical guitar and such. At my local music store the banjo books are all tab or rolls. I know in this thread some people have recommended the lomax book which does look like real sheet music but I was wondering if anybody could recommend a book for very beginners that goes through HOW to read the sheet music and translate to banjo. Where, theoretically, I could pick up any sheet music and play once I learned it (not both staffs, of course).

Any recommendations? I want to get started on this path but am having trouble knowing where to start

Culloden - Posted - 08/10/2021:  11:56:03

If you can find a copy, Mel Bay used to publish a book for beginner bluegrass banjo players which taught by note. It was written by Sonny Osborne. It is probably long out of print but it may give you an idea of something to look for. There may be a few copies floating around on eBay or Amazon.
Standard guitar notation will work for banjo. You don't have the lower range that a guitar has but most beginner guitar books will not go that low on the strings at first.

thunderfan - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:17:06

Thanks for info. Admittedly, I do not know how to read guitar sheet music (I was just using that as an example). I was hoping for something that was for very beginners. I will look into the one you mentioned. If anybody else has ideas I am open to them too.

BTW - your username - are you a fellow Scotsman? I come down from the clan of MacDuff myself

Culloden - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:29:17

My ancestors fought with Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden Moor and were exiled to the Colony of Virginia. Munro is the clan my family came from.

amsweet - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:30:18

There's a huge library of sheet music at classic-banjo.ning.com

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:37:53

Why don't you want to learn tab? It's a quick, easy way to figure out how to play song and learn the basics. Once you have the basics of tab, then you can look at any tab and pick it and have the song you want. Well, it's not quite that easy, but almost.

If you read sheet music, a note is a note is a note, and whether it's for the piano or guitar, musical notation is the same for any instrument. You can take any piano song and pick out the melody on the banjo.

As far as sheet music (musical notation) is concerned, unless you're main interest is in classical music, you aren't going to find very many books that have only musical notation for banjo.

There are several things you might try:

1. Banjo fake book. This has both tab and musical notation for basic melody for songs. Then you can fill in all the frills after you get the basic melody down.
2. Tabledit software. It has banjo and guitar tab (and maybe other instruments, I'm not sure) and also musical notation so you can read either from tab or musical notation.
3. Playing by ear. If you can hear the melody and pick it out on the banjo, then again, add the necessary fills and frills to make it sound like the genre you want.

Does any of that help?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:47:09

So, the banjo was not ever really an "orchestra instrument"-- that is an academic twisting of the narrative. But it did have a long tradition of using notation for learning, recording, selling, and transferring music.

I can absolutely recommend a book!

Mel Bay's Banjo Method Concert Style, C notation, by Frank C. Bradbury, still in print. This was first published in two volumes, so if you go used make sure you get the later version or both volumes of the original.

Or, you can choose any of the "C notation" or "Universal Notation" books that are widely available as download.

While my top recommendation is Bradbury, you would get good service out of Agnew's 20th Century Method.

Bradbury also published an earlier work, now in public domain, that goes at a quicker pace and a bit more advanced. But still good for learning.

There are many found here...

classic-banjo.ning.com/page/tutor-books

While you are there check out the thousands of pieces of music, all public domain, for banjo in the music library section.

I've scanned a number of books, folios and pieces of sheet music and uploaded them here...

archive.org/details/@joel_hooks

Again, just make sure you are working out of a book or off of music that is "C" notation or gives the banjo as pitched to the key of C. The earlier American books treated the banjo as transposing... it is a long story.

You are safe with anything published in England.

Leaning to read opens the door to tens of thousands of pieces of sheet music composed or arranged specifically for banjo. There is more than several lifetimes worth to play. And the best part is that you own all of it!


Guitar notation is not a good fit for banjo. While one could read banjo music on guitar, the added bass strings make it a challenge the other way around. Most guitar music uses the Spanish system of marking positions and fingerings.

Stick to banjo specific notation.

Now a bit of warning. People will post explaining all the problems with reading music for banjo. These people are ignorant of banjo notation which has solved all of those problems.

Congrats on the first step to literacy!

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:50:47

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Why don't you want to learn tab? It's a quick, easy way to figure out how to play song and learn the basics. Once you have the basics of tab, then you can look at any tab and pick it and have the song you want. Well, it's not quite that easy, but almost.



If you read sheet music, a note is a note is a note, and whether it's for the piano or guitar, musical notation is the same for any instrument. You can take any piano song and pick out the melody on the banjo.



As far as sheet music (musical notation) is concerned, unless you're main interest is in classical music, you aren't going to find very many books that have only musical notation for banjo.



There are several things you might try:



1. Banjo fake book. This has both tab and musical notation for basic melody for songs. Then you can fill in all the frills after you get the basic melody down.

2. Tabledit software. It has banjo and guitar tab (and maybe other instruments, I'm not sure) and also musical notation so you can read either from tab or musical notation.

3. Playing by ear. If you can hear the melody and pick it out on the banjo, then again, add the necessary fills and frills to make it sound like the genre you want.



Does any of that help?

---

Yeah, so this is what I mean... ignorance. 

There is actually very little "classical music" published for banjo.  But thousands and thousands of pieces of popular music of all kinds. 

From jigs and reels, marches, polkas, schottisches, barn dances, to ragtime and some jazz... there is stacks of sheet music that was published just for banjo. 

Good Buddy - Posted - 08/10/2021:  13:29:03

Google "Banjo Tutors" and you will find classic banjo music in standard notation for free, all over the place. They used to tune way down back in the day, so make sure you find one with gCGBD tuning.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/10/2021:  13:31:07

I second Joel's recommendation of the Bradbury book.

Nic Pennsylvania - Posted - 08/10/2021:  13:37:50

I will third the Bradbury book. I will also put Emile Grimshaw's book for your consideration.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/10/2021:  14:02:21

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Why don't you want to learn tab? It's a quick, easy way to figure out how to play song and learn the basics. Once you have the basics of tab, then you can look at any tab and pick it and have the song you want. Well, it's not quite that easy, but almost.



If you read sheet music, a note is a note is a note, and whether it's for the piano or guitar, musical notation is the same for any instrument. You can take any piano song and pick out the melody on the banjo.



As far as sheet music (musical notation) is concerned, unless you're main interest is in classical music, you aren't going to find very many books that have only musical notation for banjo.



There are several things you might try:



1. Banjo fake book. This has both tab and musical notation for basic melody for songs. Then you can fill in all the frills after you get the basic melody down.

2. Tabledit software. It has banjo and guitar tab (and maybe other instruments, I'm not sure) and also musical notation so you can read either from tab or musical notation.

3. Playing by ear. If you can hear the melody and pick it out on the banjo, then again, add the necessary fills and frills to make it sound like the genre you want.



Does any of that help?

---

Yeah, so this is what I mean... ignorance. 

There is actually very little "classical music" published for banjo.  But thousands and thousands of pieces of popular music of all kinds. 

From jigs and reels, marches, polkas, schottisches, barn dances, to ragtime and some jazz... there is stacks of sheet music that was published just for banjo. 

 

---

I don't appreciate being called ignorant.  Uninformed would be a  much better word.   It's not nice to insult people.

banjo_brad - Posted - 08/10/2021:  14:21:01

Sherry - I wouldn't take Joel's use of the word as an insult to you. In the context with which he used it,  this difinition  is much more accurate.

Too many people are just unaware of the use of notation for banjo.

I know, the word has taken on a connotation as a put-down, but actually has a definite usage apart from the common (also known as 'vulgar') usage.

And, no, I am not calling you vugar, either.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/10/2021:  14:33:17

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.

Ignorance of the banjo between about 1855 and WW2 is not uncommon, and not many people know that notation was the way banjo music was taught and recorded (as well as the way music was sold).

It is just that there is SO much banjo music readily available now with the internet that one has to be willfully ignorant not to know about it. Not to mention that you have been a part of previous discussions where I (and others) have written pretty much what I wrote above.

We banjoists are always yelling that we want to be taken seriously as musicians yet when people ask about notation it is always the same old "notation is no good for banjo, use tab" thing.

struggle_bus - Posted - 08/10/2021:  16:17:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.



Ignorance of the banjo between about 1855 and WW2 is not uncommon, and not many people know that notation was the way banjo music was taught and recorded (as well as the way music was sold).



It is just that there is SO much banjo music readily available now with the internet that one has to be willfully ignorant not to know about it. Not to mention that you have been a part of previous discussions where I (and others) have written pretty much what I wrote above.



We banjoists are always yelling that we want to be taken seriously as musicians yet when people ask about notation it is always the same old "notation is no good for banjo, use tab" thing.

---

This is such a crappy, classical musician mentality. "In order to be taken seriously, one must read music and play an instrument that relies on printed music." That is complete nonsense. I don't read music when I'm playing banjo, there's no need for it, but when I plop myself onstage for an orchestra concert (I have advanced degrees in music, so don't call me or anybody ignorant) you can bet I won't get too far without the bassoon parts. 

But, to answer the question, there were plenty of banjo orchestras around in the late 19th century. I think it was during the period of "classic banjo" when banjos would be played similarly to classical guitar and would read music notation. There are plenty of these classic banjo methods on archive.org. Compared to modern method books, they progress really quickly and aren't the most user friendly, but the music they contain is good and worth learning. 

RB3 - Posted - 08/10/2021:  17:04:52

The Banjo Hangout has an extensive library of free tablatures for songs in all styles of banjo playing. The preponderance of those tablatures are in digital formats that can be used with computer based tablature software programs. One of the most popular programs is Tabledit.



If you have Tabledit, and you download any of those Tabledit tablature files from the Banjo Hangout tab library, Tabledit can display the files in either tablature format or standard music notation.

Edited by - RB3 on 08/10/2021 17:12:28

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/10/2021:  17:39:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by struggle_bus

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.



Ignorance of the banjo between about 1855 and WW2 is not uncommon, and not many people know that notation was the way banjo music was taught and recorded (as well as the way music was sold).



It is just that there is SO much banjo music readily available now with the internet that one has to be willfully ignorant not to know about it. Not to mention that you have been a part of previous discussions where I (and others) have written pretty much what I wrote above.



We banjoists are always yelling that we want to be taken seriously as musicians yet when people ask about notation it is always the same old "notation is no good for banjo, use tab" thing.

---

This is such a crappy, classical musician mentality. "In order to be taken seriously, one must read music and play an instrument that relies on printed music." That is complete nonsense. I don't read music when I'm playing banjo, there's no need for it, but when I plop myself onstage for an orchestra concert (I have advanced degrees in music, so don't call me or anybody ignorant) you can bet I won't get too far without the bassoon parts. 

But, to answer the question, there were plenty of banjo orchestras around in the late 19th century. I think it was during the period of "classic banjo" when banjos would be played similarly to classical guitar and would read music notation. There are plenty of these classic banjo methods on archive.org. Compared to modern method books, they progress really quickly and aren't the most user friendly, but the music they contain is good and worth learning. 

 

---

Hi Scott, I'm ignorant about classical music.  In fact, I'm pretty ignorant about music theory too.  Unlike you, I have no claim of advanced credentials-- I don't have any.  But I can read music for banjo because it is easy.

I'm also ignorant about bluegrass banjo, so I would not jump into a discussion for a bluegrass query and explain that something I know nothing about does not exist. 

I happened to use those very books that aren't the most user friendly to learn to read.  It is true that most of them are difficult and not well graded. The whole A notation/C notation makes things worse.  The 1961 Bradbury book is clear, well graded, and moves at a nice speed. 

AFA "classical musician mentality"-- I don't qualify.  I don't even like classical music. 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/10/2021:  18:14:24

Part of why I seconded the use of the Bradbury book is because it is actually well organized, goes one step at a time, and teaches more than just simple note reading, but also where those notes fit on the fretboard and whjat fingers to use and when.

As far as not reading, maybe some people can do it. But there is absolutely no reason to discourage anyone from learning that skill.

I do enjoy classical music, and even play some (though badly) on the piano. But I don't happen to have that so-called "classical musician mentality" that some people throw around as criticism, nor do any of the many other players I know. I find it a rather insulting characterization, in fact.

overhere - Posted - 08/11/2021:  04:33:47

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 08/11/2021:  04:41:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.



Ignorance of the banjo between about 1855 and WW2 is not uncommon, and not many people know that notation was the way banjo music was taught and recorded (as well as the way music was sold).



It is just that there is SO much banjo music readily available now with the internet that one has to be willfully ignorant not to know about it. Not to mention that you have been a part of previous discussions where I (and others) have written pretty much what I wrote above.



We banjoists are always yelling that we want to be taken seriously as musicians yet when people ask about notation it is always the same old "notation is no good for banjo, use tab" thing.

---

I guess I should have said "Classic" banjo instead of classical.  That word (classical) seemed to set you off.  My apologies for that.

I can read musical notation and play it on my banjo.  I can read tab and play it on my banjo.  I don't need to do either as I play mostly by ear.  I only use notation/tab if I'm trying to isolate a certain lick or phrase that I can't figure out.    

I think people really need to be careful what words they use on the internet.  The word "ignorant" seems to have upset more people than just me.   Again, uninformed doesn't upset people like ignorant does.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/11/2021:  06:33:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.



 

---

FWIW, some time after I moved to the DC area from NYC, I learned that in southern idiom, "ignorant" has a strong pejorative connotation. It's used colloquially to mean far more than "without knowledge". A Virginia-born friend of mine calls people "ignorant" when they're being insensitive jerks, even in situations when knowledge or lack of knowledge was not an issue. It took me a while to pick up on that usage.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/11/2021:  06:35:08

On thing that thunderfan hasn't told us is what style of music he/she is interested in playing on the banjo.

thunderfan - Posted - 08/11/2021:  07:07:25

I am interested in all sorts, to be honest (bluegrass, jazz, Irish). I have been working at it for a while now but my brain is having trouble with just memorizing rolls and doing tab. I played trombone as a child (bass clef) and as an adult started learning piano and I enjoy the musical theory aspect of it and being able to sit down and ready sheet music on a particular instrument for my own pleasure. That can vary greatly. My piao sheet music ranges from classical, to pop, to country, to doo-wop.



I appreciate all of the help here. I just know from my own experience and efforts that learning the theory behind it and then applying and reading sheet music gains the most benefit for me personally. That may not be the case for everybody.

For the record - I am HORRIBLE at playing by ear on any instrument. I think it's so cool when people can do that. Again, my brain just doesn't work that way and so I try to do what works for me. 

Edited by - thunderfan on 08/11/2021 07:09:43

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/11/2021:  07:42:30

Playing by ear is a learnable skill, thunderfan , and you don't get there all at once in a quantum leap. Send me a private message if you'd like.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/11/2021:  07:49:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Texasbanjo , I did not mean any insult and I am sorry you took it that way.



 

---

FWIW, some time after I moved to the DC area from NYC, I learned that in southern idiom, "ignorant" has a strong pejorative connotation. It's used colloquially to mean far more than "without knowledge". A Virginia-born friend of mine calls people "ignorant" when they're being insensitive jerks, even in situations when knowledge or lack of knowledge was not an issue. It took me a while to pick up on that usage.

---

34 years of my life spent in North Dallas, it was a shock when I moved to New England and discovered that "ma'am" was offensive.   Right after I got here I was at a customer service desk at a retailer with a middle aged woman helping me.  I said "yes ma'am" which set her off on some tirade about me calling her "old" or something.  I'm not really sure what happed, only that she got super mad after I said it and a manager intervened and took over.

"Ma'am" is so ingrained into my brain that it took me some time to stop, and I still use it without thinking with mixed results when I slip up.  Sometimes a get nasty looks or some "don't call me ma'am" snap back (from strangers).  Other times it has been met with smiles.

Who knows what is going to set people off?  

I don't recall "ignorant" by itself being used as an insult in Texas unless it was paired with another word.  I recall hearing it often combined with racist slurs.  "those ignorant -------".

General use to describe lack of knowledge was not insulting, though I can see how pointing out someone's deficiencies could be if that person is sensitive to such perceptions. 

Since the subject of notation and banjo comes up somewhat often, it seems the same people always post the same "you won't find any" or various reasons why reading for fretted instruments is difficult.  Often they insinuate that notation is only for "classical music" for some reason. 

The classical thing does not set me off, it is just a thing.  More than a few times people will comb the piles of banjo music expecting "classical" only to be disappointed when they don't find much at all. 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/11/2021:  09:11:07

Have you picked out a banjo to learn on?

Bradbury is for five string banjos. There are other sources for tenor or plectrum banjo, but not a lot of instruction material has been printed recently. If you do have a tenor and not a five string, I can look through my various old tenor tomes to find one that might work for you. Unfortunately, I don't have anything I can recall for plectrum banjo.

thisoldman - Posted - 08/11/2021:  11:39:52

Sherry suggested a fakebook. Here is one example Parking Lot Pickers .   When I retired, I decided to learn how to play a stringed instrument. I started with a guitar (we had one in the house) and learned to play some tunes using standard notation.  Wasn't too hard to learn some tunes that way.  Then I moved on to bass, mandolin, dulcimer, and finally, banjo.  When I moved to bass, I realized that tab was WAY easier than learning using standard notation with the different instruments.  The Pickers book has both standard notation and tab.  These arrangements have the basic bones of the tune, the melody notes, like you would find in simple piano scores.  I think you will find with banjo music you will find more, shall we say, filler notes in the arrangements.  

I think the key here will be for the OP to decide on a genre/style of music.  That will determine whether the arrangements are easily  found in standard notation, tab or both. 

Edited by - thisoldman on 08/11/2021 11:44:04

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 08/11/2021:  11:41:07

I always recommend ALL FRETS for what the O.P. needs.
allfrets.com/about-all-frets.html

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 08/11/2021:  11:51:08

I'm a big fan of learning to read standard notation, but when it comes to Scruggs style I don't think it translates well.

thunderfan - Posted - 08/11/2021:  12:32:12

I have a J Reynolds 5 string banjo that I've been using for about a year and a half now. I have been using Alfred's 5-string Banjo method 1 (though to my knowledge there is not a book 2) and gone through it but it just doesn't really "speak" to me. Not sure why. It relies a lot on tab and learning rolls.

I was given a copy of the music (tab) from Steve Martin's The Crow album and that was a bit more enjoyable, though I just really would like to learn the sheet music/music theory aspect of it. I have ordered a copy of the Bradbury book. found one very reasonably priced on ebay so hopeful for that to be what I am looking for.

Thanks everybody for the help!

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 08/11/2021:  17:05:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

---

Reminds me of a thread years ago on a guitar forum I used to post on. Someone asked, "Is there such a thing as tablature for piano?", and several of us immediately responded, "Yes: standard notation."

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/11/2021:  19:18:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

---

This statement would be close to true had you not added that final "period."

There are more banjo styles than one, and not all of them require tab. There are many, many tunes that are available in standard notation

While I don't condemn tab at all, I also don't condemn standard notation, and I wish that some people would stop denigrating the learning of standard notation for any instrument, including the banjo.

I note that the O.P. has stated a preference for numerous styles, and a preference to learn notation plus a bit of theory as well. I think it is doing him a disservice by constantly steering him in some other direction. 

Culloden - Posted - 08/11/2021:  21:19:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by earlstanleycrowe

I'm a big fan of learning to read standard notation, but when it comes to Scruggs style I don't think it translates well.

---

Standard notation(in treble clef) works OK if there is a simple melody line. Then the person playing can pick out the melody notes and fill in the rolls around them. I have learned numerous songs that way. I can see where trying to put in all the notes in the rolls would be hard to follow.

overhere - Posted - 08/12/2021:  03:55:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

---

This statement would be close to true had you not added that final "period."

There are more banjo styles than one, and not all of them require tab. There are many, many tunes that are available in standard notation

While I don't condemn tab at all, I also don't condemn standard notation, and I wish that some people would stop denigrating the learning of standard notation for any instrument, including the banjo.

I note that the O.P. has stated a preference for numerous styles, and a preference to learn notation plus a bit of theory as well. I think it is doing him a disservice by constantly steering him in some other direction. 

---

yes you can take any musical score and singly transpose to any instrument only though for the fact that it is displaying notes. fact is there is NO written sheet music specifically for 5 string banjo or for that matter any banjo. I am not trying to sell tablature at all. but it seems to be th only way to specifically pin point what is needed for banjo....in that sense you could call it sheet music for banjo. now I expect to be bombarded with examples of sheet music claiming to be banjo music. Because someone wrote..."music for banjo.....lol

Edited by - overhere on 08/12/2021 03:55:57

richard baskowski - Posted - 08/12/2021:  05:41:56

look into " Earl Scruggs and the five string banjo" published by peer international. The book features both tab and notation. included is a chart with all the notes on the fingerboard.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/12/2021:  05:51:53

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

quote:

---

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

---

This statement would be close to true had you not added that final "period."

There are more banjo styles than one, and not all of them require tab. There are many, many tunes that are available in standard notation

While I don't condemn tab at all, I also don't condemn standard notation, and I wish that some people would stop denigrating the learning of standard notation for any instrument, including the banjo.

I note that the O.P. has stated a preference for numerous styles, and a preference to learn notation plus a bit of theory as well. I think it is doing him a disservice by constantly steering him in some other direction. 

---

yes you can take any musical score and singly transpose to any instrument only though for the fact that it is displaying notes. fact is there is NO written sheet music specifically for 5 string banjo or for that matter any banjo. I am not trying to sell tablature at all. but it seems to be th only way to specifically pin point what is needed for banjo....in that sense you could call it sheet music for banjo. now I expect to be bombarded with examples of sheet music claiming to be banjo music. Because someone wrote..."music for banjo.....lol

---

There is a lot of sheet music written exclusively for banjo. Bluegrass and clawhammer are not the only banjo genres. I am sure Joel Hooks or John Cohen could provide hundreds of banjo specific pieces, but would rather spend their time playing them than posting them to educate the uninformed (who sometimes seem to be willfully so). Just because you've probably never heard of Briggs, Frank Converse, A.J. Weidt, Emile Grimshaw, George Lansing, and dozens of others who composed for banjo, does not mean they didn't exist, and it also does not mean they wrote all their music in tab form.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/12/2021:  06:13:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

quote:

---

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

---

Originally posted by overhere

"sheet music for banjo" ?.....yeah, its called tablature....Period.

---

This statement would be close to true had you not added that final "period."

There are more banjo styles than one, and not all of them require tab. There are many, many tunes that are available in standard notation

While I don't condemn tab at all, I also don't condemn standard notation, and I wish that some people would stop denigrating the learning of standard notation for any instrument, including the banjo.

I note that the O.P. has stated a preference for numerous styles, and a preference to learn notation plus a bit of theory as well. I think it is doing him a disservice by constantly steering him in some other direction. 

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yes you can take any musical score and singly transpose to any instrument only though for the fact that it is displaying notes. fact is there is NO written sheet music specifically for 5 string banjo or for that matter any banjo. I am not trying to sell tablature at all. but it seems to be th only way to specifically pin point what is needed for banjo....in that sense you could call it sheet music for banjo. now I expect to be bombarded with examples of sheet music claiming to be banjo music. Because someone wrote..."music for banjo.....lol

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I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  There IS sheet music for banjo.  All the info needed has been pinpointed and any complications addressed.  "Bombarded" would be an understatement of the vast quantity of it that was composed,  published, sold, and used.  And there are some of us who can read it right off of the page with no trouble (taking into account our own skill limitations).   While that is unusual today, at one time it was very common and most banjoists could read.  That is just how it was done.  Cultures shift and so has the way music is recorded. 

For over 60 years, between 1879 and WW2 notation was the way music for the banjo was shared.  Notation was first adapted (pinpointing what is needed for banjo) in 1855 with the publication of the "Briggs' Banjo Instructor" which was followed by a slew of other books in notation for banjo.   Sheet music publication for the banjo started to take off right at 1879 (though some was published before that year).  S. S. Stewart published, in sheet music form, 571 numbered titles, then continued to issue unnumbered titles until the catalog and plates were sold to Jos Stern Co.

I started to list some major publishers but the fact is that there were just too many to list here.

Check out the links I posted, particularly the classic banjo ning and go to the sheet music library section. 

That said, since just before ww2 there was a strong shift in popular music to improvisation which works best from chord charts.  One might even argue that unless you are playing a note for note duplication of a specific Scruggs' recording that TAB does not do a good job for bluegrass. 

The broad category "old time" with the tradition of scordatura is certainly better transmitted orally. 

With what is now called "classic banjo" there are some people who will play a few of the pieces learned by ear... something I can hear right away as they never quite get all the harmonies correct as written, leaving out much of what makes the composition good.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/12/2021:  06:23:57

Here are two examples of banjo music that are well edited. In the Fred Van Eps folio, notice that the short G string is indicated with a double flagged note. Right and left hand fingering is given where it is not obvious, or where it illustrates how the composer/arranger would play it. All the positions are indicated.

archive.org/details/vanepsbanj.../mode/2up

Here is an example of how the British edited music for banjo...

archive.org/details/mister-jol.../mode/2up

Sometimes the short G string is noted with a 0 next to it instead of the double flag. both systems work thought I like the double flag better.

Bradbury's book will teach one how to read all of this.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 08/12/2021:  06:27:10

To give an idea of the quantity, here are the catalogs of two publishers of banjo music...

archive.org/details/dallascomp...icalworks

archive.org/details/cliffordes.../mode/2up

richard baskowski - Posted - 08/12/2021:  07:07:58

I have found a happy medium (works for me), between tab and notation, not to exclude the ear. lately, I have been transposing scott joplin piano scores, to banjo tab(treble clef lead). the end result is what I consider an "arrangement" , so to speak. I can decide what notes to play where, based on the written form. I think of it as a crossword puzzle, that comes to life when played,magic. Quick story: I brought my copy of A.A.Farland school for the banjo ( 1890's), to a jam session. I was playing some of the pieces, when someone asked "what do you need that book for, I can play that by ear." My answer?In order to play by ear you must first hear someone play it. So other than my ABF folks, when was the last time you have heard someone whip off some Farland? After studying this very complex music,unless you are a musical genius, or you composed it yourself, I find it hard to believe that you could pull all that off by ear. That said, the lessons to be learned by these tutorials, is not only historically fun,but melodically deeply interesting. It is a joy to reproduce the music that was once played on a period instrument,seemingly turning back the hands of time. I am not trying to debate the merits of any method, but it works for me to use whatever I can to come up with the best results. I guess this is my recommendation, those tutorials were written by serious musicians that knew what they are talking about. Enjoy your journey through the musical world of banjo playing!

overhere - Posted - 08/12/2021:  07:09:28

I stand Bombarded...in defeat

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 08/12/2021:  07:20:43

If you can find a midi file of the piece you wish to play you can import that into a music program and be way down the road.

JohnnyShayne - Posted - 08/12/2021:  07:59:15

thunderfan ,



Hi from a fellow okie. I may have missed it, but did you mention the type of banjo you have (or want)? (5 string, tenor etc.). If you are interested in irish tenor I would recommend Enda Scahill's tutor. It includes standard notation as well as banjo tab throughout the book. It can be found on his website.

If you are interested in 5 string I would recommend Pete Seeger's How To Play The Five String Banjo. All of the sheet music is hand written but includes both the tab and standard notation. It covers everything from clawhammer to Scruggs to Jazz.



I spend a fair amount of time at American Banjo Museum, so maybe I'll see you there (if I haven't already).

Old Hickory - Posted - 08/15/2021:  19:25:16

quote:

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Originally posted by thunderfan

I am interested in all sorts, to be honest (bluegrass, jazz, Irish). I have been working at it for a while now but my brain is having trouble with just memorizing rolls  . . . I enjoy the musical theory aspect of it and being able to sit down and ready sheet music on a particular instrument

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For one thing, you shouldn't be trying to memorize rolls. If there's anything to memorize, it's the musical passages phrase-by-phrase, measure-by-measure, that eventually lead to playing and memorizing the entire song.

I don't really understand how seeing the standard notation will help you understand any theory behind a song -- especially since standard notation for the banjo part won't show you anything about the chords, chord progression or harmony, which is where the bulk of the theory lies. But if seeing standard notation is important to you, you've been given advice on how to see it. Some books, including the original Earl Scruggs and the Five String Banjo, present both standard notation and tablature lined up with each other. Standard notation shows you the notes and timing. Tablature shows you which strings at which frets to play. Some other books do this, too, I believe. But not many.

You've already been advised that TablEdit software can do this with every file. Just go into the preferences or settings and click to display both tablature and notation.

But in a larger sense, what you're interested in doesn't exist. Yes, a banjo-specific form of notation that indicates both the notes and where to play them does exist for banjo music of a certain era. But I don't believe it exists (or if it does, not to any significant extent) for bluegrass, jazz and Irish music five string banjo in three-finger style. Tablature is the primary written way of conveying how to play these genres on five string banjo. It just is.

You mentioned in another message about wanting to learn the music from the Crow album and how seeing the standard notation would help you get into the theory of it. I'm nearly 100% certain that Steve Martin did not write that music in standard notation. I am certain he approached it as a banjo player, hearing melodies in his head and then -- because he's a Scruggs style player and not a melodic player -- he developed the tunes out of chord shapes and positions, licks, rolls and the whole gamut of banjo playing. I am certain this applies doubly to his clawhammer stuff. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say no one ever wrote sheet music for clawhammer. But I'd be shocked if Steve Martin scored his clawhammer tunes.

It's great that you want to think about and be aware of the actual notes being played in a banjoistic piece. But there's nothing to stop you from doing that even if you're working off of tablature instead of notation. Those numbers on the lines do, after all, represent notes.

My suggestion would be to obtain one of the frequently suggested instruction books for bluegrass  banjo -- Janet Davis, Jack Hatfield, Alan Munde, Bill Evans, Ned Luberecki all have good reputations. They have the advantage of being developed by actual banjo players. Or look at the free beginner banjo lessons on YouTube from Jim Pankey.  Try approaching the theory of banjo in a banjoistic way without standard notation. Or when you need standard notation look at a TablEdit version of a song you're learning from one fo the other sources. It might not match note-for-note, but it could be close enough. Or write out your own standard notation by transcribing the tab. The act of writing it out can possibly help you see more clearly what it is you're looking for in the notation.

Good luck.

csacwp - Posted - 08/19/2021:  08:40:03

I've been following this thread and haven't felt the need to chime in yet. I think Joel's prediction that the original poster would receive a bunch of uninformed opinions regarding the impossibility of notating banjo music was a self-fulfilling prophecy. That said, and in light of the various responses here, I'd suggest that if bluegrass or old-time is your goal that you stick to tabs or ear playing. If you are interested in exploring the vast historical banjo repertoire or making arrangements of piano music, then learning to read standard notation on the banjo is the way forward.

overhere - Posted - 08/27/2021:  06:40:38

For those who keep repeating “standard notation”. Standard notation is not sheet music for banjo. They are musical notes written for noting musical flow. If you can learn music theory and flow of notations and meanings....all that can be transposed to any instrument. For Bluegrass with Scruggs style and that seems to be the main subject of BHO the tab is the only written music for that style again....period. any other way written with instructions with what configured finger pattern where and how to play those notes could only be , tab or a primitive example of tab.....besides playing Bach on banjo?...eh.......nothing more could be more boring because you would never get the power of Bach from such a primitive instrument
You can only think you can. If those oldie examples are supposed to be a successful venue....they’d still be written with popularity today. 99 and 99% of those who want to play Bach...usually chose and instrument of Bach.