jan dupree - Posted - 07/27/2021:  11:39:17

microsoftnewskids.com/en-us/ki...=msedgntp Reasons why many People can't accept Modern Music and Progressive Playing styles of any Genre.

MacCruiskeen - Posted - 07/27/2021:  12:03:25

I am old, so I drive the kids off my lawn by cranking the John Zorn and Sun Ra records.

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/27/2021:  12:23:28

I must be young for my age, I can tell chords and rhythm's better than ever. Good music from any player is still good , I never look to see their age. Being young does not erase bad taste in the noise we make, . However our taste are all different. We have a right for our taste ,but the loudness has to be a more communal agreement if we want to be at peace on this planet.

Old people are not some tone deaf problem.A lot of folks did not have systems that were really that clear  a few decades back. Our slowdowners were turntables .

progressive is not only a youngsters domain

Edited by - Tractor1 on 07/27/2021 12:39:51

soonersailor - Posted - 07/27/2021:  14:06:27

Progressive is one thing, but I tend to enjoy music with taste. Just because one can rattle off nearly impossible licks does not make for good tasteful music.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 07/27/2021:  14:08:40

I agree with Tom:

I like different genres of music. I can distinguish chords and chord changes and rhythm very easily. What I don't like is LOUD music. Seems like a lot of bands think it's necessary to turn up the volume where people can't hear one another or talk where it can be heard. I guess I have sensitive ears because loud music actually hurts my ears. That kind of music, regardless of the genre, is, to me, NOISE, not music. It has nothing to do with age. I've felt that way since I was in my teens.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/27/2021:  14:27:18

Like most everything, this article is a generalization and certainly doesn't include all older people. Although some folks probably do focus on what they grew up with instead of finding pleasure in new forms, harmonies, rhythms, and sonorities, there are those who keep an open mind (or ear) and not only can appreciate the new, but learn it and learn from it.

Of course, there are tasteless tunes from every generation. One must be careful distaste for one or two tunes is not confused with hating everything modern, and I think tha confusion i's where too many people get the wrong idea about older people's musical preferences.

Alex Z - Posted - 07/27/2021:  15:02:01

quote:

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Originally posted by jan dupree

microsoftnewskids.com/en-us/ki...=msedgntp Reasons why many People can't accept Modern Music and Progressive Playing styles of any Genre.

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The author of the article is pretty clear about what his conclusions are:  

  "But I believe there are some simpler reasons for older people’s aversion to newer music. One of the most researched laws of social psychology is something called the “mere exposure effect.” In a nutshell, it means that the more we’re exposed to something, the more we tend to like it. "

    "For many people over 30, job and family obligations increase, so there’s less time to spend discovering new music. Instead, many will simply listen to old, familiar favorites from that period of their lives when they had more free time."

This doesn't seem to be related to modern music and playing styles, but rather with exposure -- if you don't listen enough to "progressive playing styles," it is less likely that  you will like it, and that many listen to music less when they are older compared to when they were in high school.  Thus, not enough exposure to become familiar with new styles.

Happens all the time in bluegrass.  There are plenty of players who consider anything after 1955 (that's 65 years ago) to be avant garde.  Bill Keith in 1960 was not playing "real" banjo music.  I recall one session where a small group of us were playing Blackberry Blossom, with a fiddler, and I took a banjo break.  After the tune was over, some knucklehead bystander mumbled something about "now let's get back to regular bluegrass."

Maybe the author is wrong -- maybe 65 years of something different is still not enough to expand one's musical horizon. 

beegee - Posted - 07/27/2021:  15:18:20

I listen to classical, big band, jazz, old country, bluegrass, classic rock.



Basically, I like music with a recognizable melody, meaningful lyrics(good poetry or a story line), dynamics, solid rhythm, no profanity



I don't like mind-numbing noise, crashing beats, repetitive chanting of mindless lyrics. I don't care whose music it is.

Edited by - beegee on 07/27/2021 15:25:52

jan dupree - Posted - 07/27/2021:  17:25:33

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I agree with Tom:



I like different genres of music. I can distinguish chords and chord changes and rhythm very easily. What I don't like is LOUD music. Seems like a lot of bands think it's necessary to turn up the volume where people can't hear one another or talk where it can be heard. I guess I have sensitive ears because loud music actually hurts my ears. That kind of music, regardless of the genre, is, to me, NOISE, not music. It has nothing to do with age. I've felt that way since I was in my teens.

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Loud music is usually flawed in some way, and they are trying to hide the flaws.

jan dupree - Posted - 07/27/2021:  17:31:30

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex Z

quote:

---

Originally posted by jan dupree

microsoftnewskids.com/en-us/ki...=msedgntp Reasons why many People can't accept Modern Music and Progressive Playing styles of any Genre.

---

The author of the article is pretty clear about what his conclusions are:  

  "But I believe there are some simpler reasons for older people’s aversion to newer music. One of the most researched laws of social psychology is something called the “mere exposure effect.” In a nutshell, it means that the more we’re exposed to something, the more we tend to like it. "

    "For many people over 30, job and family obligations increase, so there’s less time to spend discovering new music. Instead, many will simply listen to old, familiar favorites from that period of their lives when they had more free time."

This doesn't seem to be related to modern music and playing styles, but rather with exposure -- if you don't listen enough to "progressive playing styles," it is less likely that  you will like it, and that many listen to music less when they are older compared to when they were in high school.  Thus, not enough exposure to become familiar with new styles.

Happens all the time in bluegrass.  There are plenty of players who consider anything after 1955 (that's 65 years ago) to be avant garde.  Bill Keith in 1960 was not playing "real" banjo music.  I recall one session where a small group of us were playing Blackberry Blossom, with a fiddler, and I took a banjo break.  After the tune was over, some knucklehead bystander mumbled something about "now let's get back to regular bluegrass."

Maybe the author is wrong -- maybe 65 years of something different is still not enough to expand one's musical horizon. 

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I wonder what they would think about Jens Kruger if they did'nt like Bill Keith.

jan dupree - Posted - 07/27/2021:  17:34:15

quote:

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Originally posted by beegee

I listen to classical, big band, jazz, old country, bluegrass, classic rock.



Basically, I like music with a recognizable melody, meaningful lyrics(good poetry or a story line), dynamics, solid rhythm, no profanity



I don't like mind-numbing noise, crashing beats, repetitive chanting of mindless lyrics. I don't care whose music it is.

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If it's sounds good I don't care what the arrangement is, playing style, instruments used, moderate or slow, or when it was recorded etc.  

banjo bill-e - Posted - 07/27/2021:  17:47:56

Old Time Music was very new to me when I discovered it in my mid-50s, and took up banjo.

35planar - Posted - 07/27/2021:  18:03:01

I think John Zorn had a little banjo on his tribute to Ennio Morricone, "The Big Gundown". I WISH Sun Ra had used banjo, but nope. Good music is good music no matter the genre. You know it's good when the heart's in it. You can always tell when someone's faking it. Since I was 14 and discovered college radio and John Peel's BBC show I've searched for new music, old and young, and the connections going as far back in time as history allows. Good topic!

Edited by - 35planar on 07/27/2021 18:03:55

Bill H - Posted - 07/27/2021:  18:19:50

I agree completely with this article. I remember my first record at age five was a Smiley Burnette record I played on my Howdy Doody phonograph. I have been a fan of "Fifteen Miles on the Erie Canal since that time. When my fifth grade teacher played a Weavers album for our class, I was forever hooked on folk music. Bluegrass, old time and all thing banjo were a natural progression from that. While I love jazz and classical in performance, I don't listen much.

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/27/2021:  18:34:13

I don't put Jens above Bill Keith I am more in sync will Bill's taste and the music he brought forth . I am not necessarily riding some other judge's wagon .

Blaming not having one's music  become somebody's ''go to'' sounds might have to do with ''said'' music ,There  IS the chance that----blaming it on old folks ears and those folks raising a family might just be a rationalization to ease the pain of some questionable playing.

Edited by - Tractor1 on 07/27/2021 18:43:48

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 07/27/2021:  20:56:19

quote:

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Originally posted by Alex Z

 There are plenty of players who consider anything after 1955 (that's 65 years ago) to be avant garde.  Bill Keith in 1960 was not playing "real" banjo music.

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I believe the technical term is "Yankee double-picking."



;^)

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/28/2021:  06:03:02

quote:

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Loud music is usually flawed in some way, and they are trying to hide the flaws.

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That's a rather insulting statement, and a ridiculous generalization. 

GrahamHawker - Posted - 07/28/2021:  06:34:20

quote:

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Old Time Music was very new to me when I discovered it in my mid-50s, and took up banjo.

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Exactly the same for me (perhaps I was 49!). I was familar with some English and Irish folk music but banjos and folk/old time expanded my horizons. And into Americana (Gillian Welch, Sarah Jarosz, Darlingside) if Americana is really a thing.

GrahamHawker - Posted - 07/28/2021:  06:47:18

I still like most of the stuff I liked in the seventies including loud music with crashing rhythms and perhaps mindless chanting of lyrics. I did move on from prog and classic rock to punk and new wave, synth pop, a myriad of electronica (trance, trip hop techno etc.) and banjo based folk and bands in a variety of genres, such as Arcade Fire, but also stayed with most of the stuff I liked. Of course it's the internet that did it. Explore old stuff more, explore new stuff. I think without the internet I might have bought a guitar banjo as I did but would I have moved onto a five string or heard clawhammer. Doubtful.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 07/28/2021:  06:48:02

quote:

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Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I agree with Tom:



I like different genres of music. I can distinguish chords and chord changes and rhythm very easily. What I don't like is LOUD music. Seems like a lot of bands think it's necessary to turn up the volume where people can't hear one another or talk where it can be heard. I guess I have sensitive ears because loud music actually hurts my ears. That kind of music, regardless of the genre, is, to me, NOISE, not music. It has nothing to do with age. I've felt that way since I was in my teens.

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Loud music is usually flawed in some way, and they are trying to hide the flaws.

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Maybe sometimes that's true, but not always.

I remember years ago we traveled over 200 miles to hear one band and one banjo player that I thought was fantastic.  When they got on stage, they cranked the amps up so loud that they actually lost the first 5 rows of listeners.      Were they as fantastic as I had hoped?  I have no idea because the music was so loud it hurt my ears.  I was never so disappointed in a band.    From then on I just listened to their CDs, never went to another festival where they had a gig.  Their music on CDs was, and still is, great and you and you can turn the sound up or down as you wish.

jan dupree - Posted - 07/28/2021:  09:50:40

Same thing happened to me at a New Years Eve Old Crow Medicine Show Concert at the Ryman Auditorium. It was too loud, they sounded like some Run of the Mill Garage Band, not like their CD's. Pokey Lafarge opened for them and he was better than they were. I have walked out of other Concerts over the years because it was too loud. Harmonies were distorted, one instrument or the drums over powered the rest of the band, vocals too loud, etc. Ironically the ones I walked out of were more Progressive Bluegrass, Country and Country Rock bands, rather than Classic Rock bands of the past.

jan dupree - Posted - 07/28/2021:  09:57:49

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill H

I agree completely with this article. I remember my first record at age five was a Smiley Burnette record I played on my Howdy Doody phonograph. I have been a fan of "Fifteen Miles on the Erie Canal since that time. When my fifth grade teacher played a Weavers album for our class, I was forever hooked on folk music. Bluegrass, old time and all thing banjo were a natural progression from that. While I love jazz and classical in performance, I don't listen much.

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youtu.be/SDvYBCZwMIk Bruce Springsteen with a great totally off the chart version of 15 miles on the Erie Canal. I play it on the 5 string and 4 string.

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/28/2021:  09:58:03

sometimes some lightduty earplugs do the trick,if that ain't too progressive of an action

Edited by - Tractor1 on 07/28/2021 10:00:24

jan dupree - Posted - 07/28/2021:  10:18:06

Yeah, I have used ear plugs many times. When I saw OCMS 2 years ago in D.C. I had earplugs. I also had ear plugs 3 months ago when I saw Steeldrivers, but I was way up front.

jan dupree - Posted - 07/28/2021:  10:19:35

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

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Loud music is usually flawed in some way, and they are trying to hide the flaws.

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That's a rather insulting statement, and a ridiculous generalization. 

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That's why I said usually. Sometimes it's just a bad sound engineer.

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/28/2021:  11:24:24

I have a knack for bad sound engineering

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 07/28/2021:  18:00:37

quote:

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Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

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---

Loud music is usually flawed in some way, and they are trying to hide the flaws.

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That's a rather insulting statement, and a ridiculous generalization. 

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That's why I said usually. Sometimes it's just a bad sound engineer.

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"Usually" is a pretty inclusive term and implies that something is "typical."  In my opinion "usually" flawed" is not typical of loud music, and in my mind, that word still makes the statement a generaliztion. "Sometimes" might have been a more appropriate word choice.

overhere - Posted - 07/29/2021:  04:45:55

Why is it when they take a traditional music form identified by its original creative form as a distinct genre all to its own? Then change it distort it make it something completely different and then call it....”progressive” when it ain’t even close to what it pretends to be.... or what it was from the first place...and then on top of it blame seniors for not excepting it as such????????

Tractor1 - Posted - 07/29/2021:  05:41:19

If I was 20 I would be right there with them, .Young pretty girls go for , movers and shakers ,young boys have a hankering for young pretty girls. Later on they might dig in and become complete musicians. In between naps

Enfield1858 - Posted - 08/01/2021:  12:56:55

quote:

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Originally posted by jan dupree

microsoftnewskids.com/en-us/ki...=msedgntp Reasons why many People can't accept Modern Music and Progressive Playing styles of any Genre.

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The conclusions of that article seem a bit sweeping, to me.  When I started playing in a British brass band (baritone horn) at the age of 68, that was in many ways taking me back to my formative years. When I was aged 5 - 12, I used to listen to the local Salvation Army band, who played around our neighbourhood on Sunday mornings - the sheer enthusiasm of their playing really grabbed me, and left a lifelong impression.

Insert decades of listening to rock music and R & B - from the Beatles, Stones, Clapton, Steely Dan, Dire Straits, Roxy Music, etc . . .

Until I was 73, 'banjo music' to me was 'Foggy Mountain Breakdown' and 'Orange Blossom Special' being hammered out at machine gun speed, and left me stone cold. Come to that, it still does. But when the brass band was forced to shut down because of lockdown, I started looking around for something else to get into, and discovered old time, what I think of as mountain music - the sort that makes me picture some bloke sitting on his porch in the Appalachians, playing his banjo to his redbone hound! And I was totally hooked . . .

Who says an old dog can't get a taste for completely different music?

With best regards,

Jack

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/01/2021:  15:00:57

Those marches from the 1890s etc, sound really good on the 5 imo.a very energizing music .
bing.com/videos/search?q=march...RM=HDRSC3

Professor Jive - Posted - 08/21/2021:  05:45:36

I've read all the entries in the discussion and if my entry is off subject - blame me. Full disclosure: I'm an old guy. I've played and listened to acoustic folk, Old Time and Bluegrass all my adult life and that's my preference. However, that's not what I want to comment on. I want to issue a plea to bands or solo acts of any genre providing background music in eating and drinking establishments (exclude concerts or performances). Turn your sound down so people can talk!!! You're background music. Be aware that usually people are there to socialize with each other NOT to hear your music no matter how great it is. At one gig I did for several years, we set up sound equipment but did not turn it on. No one was the wiser. Not always the answer for sure but consider the listening audience first and adjust your sound level accordingly.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/21/2021:  06:08:48

quote:

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Originally posted by Professor Jive

I've read all the entries in the discussion and if my entry is off subject - blame me. Full disclosure: I'm an old guy. I've played and listened to acoustic folk, Old Time and Bluegrass all my adult life and that's my preference. However, that's not what I want to comment on. I want to issue a plea to bands or solo acts of any genre providing background music in eating and drinking establishments (exclude concerts or performances). Turn your sound down so people can talk!!! You're background music. Be aware that usually people are there to socialize with each other NOT to hear your music no matter how great it is. At one gig I did for several years, we set up sound equipment but did not turn it on. No one was the wiser. Not always the answer for sure but consider the listening audience first and adjust your sound level accordingly.

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There are times when I'd rather hear loud background music than that crap one usually hears in the background at eating establishments.  If the food gives me botulism and I die on the spot, I certainly don't wish to do it to the bland sounds of a Neil Diamond tune played on violins.

Professor Jive - Posted - 08/21/2021:  10:44:51

OK!

Tractor1 - Posted - 08/21/2021:  10:56:55

I remember a quote from years ago--''Music with a meal is an insult to both the musician and the cook"

the guy making music probably does not know how loud it is off stage,sad but true on a high per centage

Edited by - Tractor1 on 08/21/2021 10:58:46

lanemb - Posted - 08/21/2021:  18:02:10

I never really understood loud. We were out to dinner recently with a really good band playing. Unfortunately it was so loud you couldn’t enjoy it or your food. I guess there is a place for it I just haven’t found it yet.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 08/22/2021:  06:57:18

The place for music in a restaurant is obvious to me. Too many times, it's needed to drown out the inane and boring conversation of inlaws, the obnoxious politics of co-workers, or the insipid chattering of a bad date.

overhere - Posted - 08/24/2021:  03:33:23

The misconception is, not like or dislike “new” music it’s that some who don’t know any better call new music what it aint because they can’t play the old true music or know the difference but still need the label to sell their new stuff...ie ---BLUEGRASS FESTIVAL TODAY... Taylor Swift, Mumford and Son.....Billy Strings.....Alfred E Newman.....etc etc

WVDreamin - Posted - 08/25/2021:  06:52:41

As much as I like a good pop song, much of what is pop these days come from literally 4 or 5 song writers who may or may not be from Sweden. And pop country, save for the vocal tones, is basically the same - pop rock. (remember Pop Rock candy?) yet if one is willing to try, good music can be found on the radio between the blegh. With providers like Spotify, it's easier to discover new music because the algorithms often make decent suggestions. Spotify opened the door for me to deep cuts from the rich and varied world of 70s R&B. So despite not listening to what I listened to on the radio in my younger days, I still prefer the production values of that era - live musicians, physical instruments and true voices - over sequenced electronic sounds that are manipulated in a somewhat musical fashion.

That said, there are definitely current pop musicians who can do it without the aide of technology. The pure voice of Dua Lipa (in an small ensemble or acoustic setting, not the over produced commercial releases) lights up the pleasure center of my brain.

banjoak - Posted - 08/25/2021:  18:56:01

quote:

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Originally posted by Professor Jive

I've read all the entries in the discussion and if my entry is off subject - blame me. Full disclosure: I'm an old guy. I've played and listened to acoustic folk, Old Time and Bluegrass all my adult life and that's my preference. However, that's not what I want to comment on. I want to issue a plea to bands or solo acts of any genre providing background music in eating and drinking establishments (exclude concerts or performances). Turn your sound down so people can talk!!! You're background music. Be aware that usually people are there to socialize with each other NOT to hear your music no matter how great it is. At one gig I did for several years, we set up sound equipment but did not turn it on. No one was the wiser. Not always the answer for sure but consider the listening audience first and adjust your sound level accordingly.

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It's really the call of the venue as  to how loud... and feedback should be directed to them.

I am not a fan of overly loud venues, and have played gigs just acoustically without sound reinforcement, and it can work fine for that venue. But acknowledge that atmosphere is not always what the venue wants, thinks works for their target customers trying to attract, and we need to pump it up a bit.

Keep in mind that one role of music (esp background music) is often to create sense of excitement and energy if not  bit of party atmosphere. The venue understands how volume psychologically plays a part to feel of energy... that is customers associate that volume with energy of the place. (not the only part, type of music, timbre and tempo play role). Been to places where the goal of lively music is just too quiet. So the music has to reach a certain critical level/balance to achieve the right feel (not be drowned out by din). But that would vary on the actual feel and atmosphere the venue think appropriate (along with type of music). Perhaps they want gentle quiet background music so it's inviting to folks who want discuss what ever deep conversation they have about weather, books, TV shows, or latest gossip. On the other hand, might find that venue a little sedate, not looking for quiet little place... and are looking for a little more lively, exciting atmosphere.  

One example comes to mind... is a popular Mexican restaurant, even with out SR... has a Mariachi band playing, those horns esp can be somewhat loud and hard to talk over... but it's part of the atmosphere.

FWIW, many might not think of most live old-time and bluegrass as quiet, nor good fit for sedate atmosphere, just faint in the background.

I agree though that some designated sound engineers (or the musician) by default perhaps might overly push "louder is better" more than they need to. As start to bump louder to get over the din, the louder folks talk creating more din; harder for musicians to able to hear, and at some point start to introduce other issues with sound in a room, not only GBF, but dealing with balance and mid-tone mud and/or harshness.

DC5 - Posted - 08/26/2021:  11:23:56

The restaurant wouldn't pay a musician if the musician wasn't bringing in customers. Same thing if they have a close up magician. There are plenty of restaurants without musicians, and they are usually much less crowded. Go there if you don't like music with your meal.