DIV - Posted - 04/23/2021:  14:48:34

I've been playing the 5 string for over 30 years, but I never had professional instruction and just learned from various book courses and tab books. Just about when I opened the first page of that first book, I got hooked on Tablature which has lead me to becoming mostly a "mocking bird" instead of truly learning the instrument and developing my "ear".

With hopes of freeing myself, I picked up 2 course books from Pat Cloud: "The Key to the 5-String Banjo" and for later, "Straight Ahead Jazz for the 5-String Banjo".

I'm already off to a pretty start as Pat Cloud's course is teaching me the fretboard by working through the Pantatonic scales. I feel like I'm just starting to have a better feel for the notes and I'm starting to know my way around the fretboard a bit more.
I'd like to free myself so I can improvise, play better by ear and expand to various playing styles.

I wanted to ask the veteran instructors if you have any other suggestions or course recommendations.

Thank you!

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/23/2021:  15:00:05

I don't have any suggestions on instructors or courses (but there are a lot out there and others will chime in), but noodling around on the banjo, trying to pick out melodies to songs (just the melody, nothing else) and then adding the frills (slides, hammers, rolls, partial rolls, hot licks) that make it bluegrass will help.

Learning the pentatonic scale is a good idea. When I first started playing by ear, my teacher taught me the pentatonic scale and said the majority of your melody notes will come from those 5 notes. He also gave me several of what he called "Melody phrases" which would work with numerous songs and I've added to those phrases since then. With an understanding of chords, chord sequences and a repertoire of musical phrases and a few hot licks, you should be able to play just about any song that you hear in a jam. Note: some fiddle tunes may not be that easy to figure out, but vocals should be fairly easy.

The best way to learn to improvise is going to jams and playing with others. If you've never been, it's intimidating at first, but if you have nice, understanding jammers, they'll help you, answer your questions and maybe even show you some of their ways of doing improvisation.

banjo1971 - Posted - 04/23/2021:  19:41:09

I don't know if this is too easy for you but the Murphy Method is great for people who are learning by ear.

FenderFred - Posted - 04/24/2021:  01:30:44

Hi Daniel, Let me just say right from the outset that learning from TAB is NOT BAD as some folks would have you believe. TAB is just a tool for learning, it helps teach you which string to pick and which string to fret. It can help you count the notes in a measure and lets you see the duration of each note. In short it's a pathway to learning the mechanics of playing the banjo. Not everyone has the gift of learning to play by ear right off the bat but it is possible to learn to play by ear with the aid of TAB.  Learning TAB from a book or printed sheet is not a good way to learn IMHO the process is way too slow and pretty frustrating. However TAB in a TEF File format played in TablEdit is an excellent way to help you learn and from that you can learn the skills needed to play by ear.



On the topic of Pat Clouds book. Many people have had success using this method but personally it just confused me.  I have to confess I get lost in music theory and playing scales over and over is simply boring I  would sooner spend time playing my banjo than devoting long hours trying to understand all the correct terminology. Do yourself a favour click on the link below and sign up for a FREE Silver Pick Membership  unlock three FREE lessons of your choice and work through the lessons at your own pace. You can use the TAB or not (the choice is yours) but once you see how beneficial that TAB can be to in helping you learn to play banjo you'll begin to see a marked improvement in your playing. Good Luck  banjobenclark.com I should add I am not a PRO so feel free to ignore all I have said.

Edited by - FenderFred on 04/24/2021 01:37:43

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 04/24/2021:  07:21:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Knecht

I don't know if this is too easy for you but the Murphy Method is great for people who are learning by ear.

---

FROM THE MURPHY METHOD SITE:

Thanks for your interest in the Murphy Method. You're probably wondering what the Murphy Method is. The Murphy Method is a way of teaching bluegrass music BY EAR. We use no tablature in our teaching because we believe tablature is a crutch that interferes with learning to play bluegrass. We explain each song note by note, so that it is easy and quick to learn. As you learn these tunes, you are also developing your ear, so that learning actually gets easier as you go along!

Yeah they also erroneously claim to teach BY EAR.  Using visual and aural prompting they tell you where to put your finger in a video!

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 04/24/2021:  07:29:01

Tablature can be a great starting point, but you should view each arrangement you learn (whether by tab or by any other method) as a vocabulary lesson. As soon as you've learned the licks and phrases in an arrangement, you need to identify what musical role they're playing--like 1511 turnaround, or two beats of G leading to a C chord--and then look for places in other tunes where the same role is called for and use them there.



At a slightly more advanced level (only slightly!) you can try changing a note here or therein the licks you've learned. Maybe use the same roll, but have one of your fingers pick some other string than in the original lick. Or maybe just change one of the notes your left hand is fingering. One of the most important phrases for expanding your musicality is, "What if...?"

Edited by - Ira Gitlin on 04/24/2021 07:29:13

DIV - Posted - 04/24/2021:  12:36:45

Great, great asvice, all including Ira....
Thank you very much for the great direction!

DIV - Posted - 04/25/2021:  10:59:28

Also, I need to spend more time at “noodling” or exploring. Unfortunately, I stopped doing that decades ago....

Bart Veerman - Posted - 04/25/2021:  11:46:17

When doing stuff by yourself (in your bio you mention mostly-solo) it can be hard for things to make sense.

Playing with others in a jam is always helpful. Don't worry about taking breaks, just playing simple backup stuff is fine. By listening to the other players you get to see how people do stuff in a way so it gels with others.

DIV - Posted - 04/29/2021:  19:36:51

Thanks Bart.
You're right....not better way to learn a language than "immersion" and no better way to learn an instrument than pushing yourself to "have musical conversations" with others. Unfortunately, jamming with others is not an option for me these days, (lack of free time), but I plan to play along with recordings of music from all different genres.

Thank you!

Banjo Lefty - Posted - 05/03/2021:  11:00:56

There's nothing wrong with tab. It's just another way of writing music, and it's fine to use it to learn a piece. It only becomes a problem if you can't play the tune without the tab in front of you. The goal, just like it is for classical musicians, is to get off the page as soon as possible. Once you can play the piece from memory, then you can begin to improvise. Start by adding some notes or a small lick where the melody takes a pause, such as at the end of a line. Try syncopating a bar or two. Play part of the tune a third higher for a harmony. Do it one way the first time through, and a different way on the next verse. And so on. Like everything worthwhile, it comes in very small parts which you need to absorb one at a time.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 05/04/2021:  07:00:57

You should also try figuring out simple melodies. Not licks per se, but just melodies. Anything and everything. "Mary Had A Little Lamb", "Happy Birthday To You", your phone's ring tone, some stupid commercial you heard when you were a kid.

The point of all of this is to develop a connection between the sounds you hear in your head and the places on the guitar fingerboard where those sounds reside. That's an absolutely essential musical skill.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 05/04/2021:  08:20:58

I recommend an old post of mine

banjohangout.org/archive/310544

DIV - Posted - 05/06/2021:  13:56:00

These are all great suggestions!
Thank you to all, and most recently to Banjo Lefty, Ira and Rick....awesome help guys....really!!!

Dan Gellert - Posted - 05/09/2021:  18:47:25

Just like in language, there's nothing wrong with literacy, and reading can broaden your vocabulary and enrich your conversational skills-- but the basic skills of expression have to be there first, and those only come with lots of listening and practice.

You're looking to break some habits of perception, so keep it simple and try approaching the process from as many directions as you can. My first suggestion would be for you to SING with the banjo. Some folks are real bashful about singing, but if you are one of those, believe this: if you can speak, you can sing. If you don't want anyone to hear you, find a practice space away from people. Singing will do all kinds of good for your listening skills.
Find some good old 3-chord songs, figure out what keys they work in for your voice, and start keeping time and changing chords on the banjo. Keep on messing around and listening to what you're doing.

Make lots of mistakes-- every clunker note has something important to teach you.