finger-picker - Posted - 04/10/2021:  06:50:05

This has been something I've been noodling on for awhile. I think I understand the implications but wanted to run it past the community for input as well. I play baroque music mainly and have pieces like Canon in D in standard G tuning that require the highest frets 21-22 throughout the piece. I really like to capo and play in A and B flat. But I can't capo this piece else those frets get pushed further up and thus cut off. So if I find the inversions X frets below for the chords or bars that are way up there in order to capo and switch keys, the tone would be changed, some chords will be lower, but the sound of the song should still stay the same, right?

Thanks

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/10/2021:  07:24:36

A "major" chord is a chord is a chord. As long as your inversion has the same 3 notes, you're fine, but you'll have to find where the other notes are located and it's usually within a fret or two from where you're inverted chord is. At least that's the way I understand it. And I'm talking here about major chords, not minor or augmented or any other type of chord.

250gibson - Posted - 04/10/2021:  07:47:38

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

This has been something I've been noodling on for awhile. I think I understand the implications but wanted to run it past the community for input as well. I play baroque music mainly and have pieces like Canon in D in standard G tuning that require the highest frets 21-22 throughout the piece. I really like to capo and play in A and B flat. But I can't capo this piece else those frets get pushed further up and thus cut off. So if I find the inversions X frets below for the chords or bars that are way up there in order to capo and switch keys, the tone would be changed, some chords will be lower, but the sound of the song should still stay the same, right?



Thanks

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Why do you want to capo to play that piece, especially if you are going to run out of neck. I assume when you say capo at A and B flat, you mean frets 2 and 3, which will actually change the key from Dmaj to Emaj or Fmaj. 

kww - Posted - 04/10/2021:  08:26:38

" ... the sound of the song should still stay the same" is a bit of a stretch. A G major chord is GBD, and if you substitute BGD, DBG, or DGB, you will certainly have a compatible chord. If you were playing background, it's unlikely that any listener would notice. If you're playing lead, it will change the sound and the feel. The change may be too subtle to worry about, and it may be an improvement, but it's not invisible.

finger-picker - Posted - 04/10/2021:  08:28:56

quote:

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Originally posted by 250gibson

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

This has been something I've been noodling on for awhile. I think I understand the implications but wanted to run it past the community for input as well. I play baroque music mainly and have pieces like Canon in D in standard G tuning that require the highest frets 21-22 throughout the piece. I really like to capo and play in A and B flat. But I can't capo this piece else those frets get pushed further up and thus cut off. So if I find the inversions X frets below for the chords or bars that are way up there in order to capo and switch keys, the tone would be changed, some chords will be lower, but the sound of the song should still stay the same, right?



Thanks

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Why do you want to capo to play that piece, especially if you are going to run out of neck. I assume when you say capo at A and B flat, you mean frets 2 and 3, which will actually change the key from Dmaj to Emaj or Fmaj. 

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Yes sorry, capo at 2 and 3 which would change the key to E and F. A few reasons to capo:

1) To see if I can

2) To see how it sounds in different keys

3) The tab I learned has some pretty big hand stretches, such as pinches at 1(11)  / 4(7) and 1(17) / 4(12). Playing with a capo should help reduce these stretches thus making it a bit easier to play

szbassoon - Posted - 04/10/2021:  08:55:29

Technically, it will change what the composer wrote, but it should work just fine. Some musicians (classical and bluegrass unfortunately) love to get bent out of shape about this.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 04/10/2021:  12:13:42

A Canon is basically the same melody used as two or more parts entering at different times and together forming a harmony by being offset from each other. ("Row, Row, Row, Your Boat" is a simple one.) I would think that by inverting whatever chord the two melodies might form would alter these melodies, or at least one of them, and you'd no longer have a true canon. One could also run into problems should a note combination heare and there be a dissonace. (An interval of a seventh sounds entirely different than its inversion, which is a second.)

While it's quite possible to invert chords and still have the same basic sound, doing so with a canon will change it immensely. Instead of inversions, perhaps you can get through some rough stretches by lowering a passage by a full octave. At least that won't alter the basic melody/countermelody form set up by the composer. You'd be playing the same melody notes; they'd just be in a different octave.

MacCruiskeen - Posted - 04/10/2021:  12:13:59

Try it. If it sounds good, it is good.

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 04/10/2021:  19:16:21

If you want to play classical music you will need to study about the chromatic range of a the piece of music in question and the chromatic range of the banjo which is constant, (34 in open G)

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 04/10/2021:  20:09:14

I agree with Rick. Transcribing a piece of classical music requires knowledge the piece (and the composer's intent) and of an instrument's capabilities.

finger-picker - Posted - 04/11/2021:  06:21:12

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I agree with Rick. Transcribing a piece of classical music requires knowledge the piece (and the composer's intent) and of an instrument's capabilities.

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So basically what everyone's saying is changing a classical piece in any way without really knowing what you're doing is "against the rules", right? 

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/11/2021:  08:56:55

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I agree with Rick. Transcribing a piece of classical music requires knowledge the piece (and the composer's intent) and of an instrument's capabilities.

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So basically what everyone's saying is changing a classical piece in any way without really knowing what you're doing is "against the rules", right? 

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Not necessarily "against the rules", but it might/will/could change the sound/orientation/meaning of the piece.... according to who you believe. 

To paraphrase a member who posts frequently:  it's your banjo, play it like you want or and I'd put it .... it's your piece of music, make it yours instead of the composer's music.

finger-picker - Posted - 04/11/2021:  14:54:50

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by finger-picker

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I agree with Rick. Transcribing a piece of classical music requires knowledge the piece (and the composer's intent) and of an instrument's capabilities.

---

So basically what everyone's saying is changing a classical piece in any way without really knowing what you're doing is "against the rules", right? 

---

Not necessarily "against the rules", but it might/will/could change the sound/orientation/meaning of the piece.... according to who you believe. 

To paraphrase a member who posts frequently:  it's your banjo, play it like you want or and I'd put it .... it's your piece of music, make it yours instead of the composer's music.

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That's good advice (and its good perspective from the others, if I were to play with other classical musicians on this piece I defintiely would not try to convince them to play in a different key, lol). I was able to convert it to E without too much difficulty and it sounds great, imo.