Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/22/2021:  10:20:09

I just picked up clawhammer banjo, and after 5 weeks of playing at least an hour a day, the nail on my right middle finger has gotten a huge wear spot and feels very thin/sensitive.

After searching through some of the archived discussions that mention nail polish/hardeners, salon gel nails, acrylic nails and CA glue, it seems like CA glue was fairly popular and since I have it on hand, figured I'd give it a try.

It turns out that baking soda and CA glue have an affiinity for one another and make a very hard surface that sets quickly. So I covered my nail with thin CA glue and then covered it with baking soda. After a minute or two, it was completely hard, but also pretty rough. A little work with the smooth side of an emery board gave a pretty hard/smooth finish.

Functionally, it seems really good. Time will tell how durable it is -- the baking soda/CA mix is very hard and may chip. On the downside, it looks a bit funky -- kind of a mottled white that suggests you have a serious fungal issue! :^)

Anyone else ever try this?

CFR - Posted - 03/22/2021:  10:28:45

I use only krazy glue on my picking nail.

davidppp - Posted - 03/22/2021:  10:59:35

I have a permanent crack in my favorite frailing finger, i.e., along the grain. What works for me is a small square of clean tea bag paper glued down with CA and then two coats of clear nail polish. It last two or three weeks.

Bob Smakula - Posted - 03/22/2021:  11:32:00

Many times when cyanoacrylate is applied to Baking soda there will be a super fast chain reaction set up time. The chain reaction releases an exceptional amount of heat. I have never burned a fingernail, but applying CA glue to baking soda on a fingernail seems to be a painful way to injure oneself.

Bob Smakula

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/22/2021:  12:07:03

Hi Bob,

I'm sure you use the CA/Baking Soda thing frequently in repairs, so you'd know about the heat, but I didn't really feel any heat at all. Maybe because it was in a thin layer that was spread out? Certainly wasn't painful or even noticeably warm.

At any rate, it makes a really hard shell and is only semi-hideous looking :^) I'm going to try it for awhile.

Rich

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/22/2021:  12:18:50

quote:

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Originally posted by davidppp

I have a permanent crack in my favorite frailing finger, i.e., along the grain. What works for me is a small square of clean tea bag paper glued down with CA and then two coats of clear nail polish. It last two or three weeks.

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Hi David,

Ouch.. glad you have a way to deal with that! So you're making a sort of composite with the CA glue and tea bag paper.. wonder if a spun material like tyvek might have a little more strength?

I saw something on Amazon called "Nail Wraps" that appears to a roll of silk fabric with adhesive on it. That might be an option too. The reviews suggest that the adhesive doesn't last very long, but maybe using CA would make a difference?

Rich

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 03/22/2021:  13:26:36

I agree totally with Bob Smakula about the heat. I suspect that you didn't feel much because a fingernail doesn't have nerves. Underneath and around the edges is a different story. When applying this mix, be extremely careful none of it gets under the nail, or at the layer of skin around the nail. You might regret it if the glue-soda mix hits a sensitive spot, and you may also suffer other injuries when the pain sends you to the ceiling.

GMB - Posted - 03/22/2021:  14:10:42

youtube.com/watch?v=7BqISqpMRo8 James Taylor reinforces his nails

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/22/2021:  15:00:45

quote:

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Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

I agree totally with Bob Smakula about the heat. I suspect that you didn't feel much because a fingernail doesn't have nerves. Underneath and around the edges is a different story. When applying this mix, be extremely careful none of it gets under the nail, or at the layer of skin around the nail. You might regret it if the glue-soda mix hits a sensitive spot, and you may also suffer other injuries when the pain sends you to the ceiling.

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As a matter of fact,  some did get on my skin and I'm telling you there wasn't enough heat in this particular reaction to even notice. However, that's not to say another time the reaction wouldn't be more powerful due to more potent CA or whatever, so  I take your point.

I do think the fact that it's a very thin layer of CA spread out over the whole nail has a lot to do with it.

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/22/2021:  15:11:40

quote:

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Originally posted by GMB

youtube.com/watch?v=7BqISqpMRo8 James Taylor reinforces his nails

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Wow, what a great video! Thank you for posting that Jerry!

That's just what I was looking for. I'm definitely going to try JT's method (once the baking soda/CA wears/chips off :^). Down in the comments someone points out that the fiberglass tape is a type of  "Nail Wrap" (I was looking at some on Amazon earlier today).

Any idea what "Nail Glue" really is? Wondering if that's CA or something else?

[EDIT] ... Appears to be  a type of CA, it's n-Butyl CA instead of ethyl CA, claims to be less brittle. Here's a variety sold to guitar players

Edited by - Clutch Cargo on 03/22/2021 15:18:52

Winged Words - Posted - 03/22/2021:  23:37:34

Long time classical guitar player here with a lot of time spent on nail care!

Take care with CA - it's OK for repair, but used long term in my experience it leaves the nail even weaker. In the old days we used layers of tissue paper and nail varnish. The silk and fibreglass tapes are pretty good with several coats of varnish or nail hardener.

I'd recommend consulting the experts, your local friendly nail bar. It takes a certain amount of neck, but generally they're interested and helpful. If not, find another.

And use nothing other than a glass nail file with a nail buff. They really work.

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AndyW - Posted - 03/23/2021:  00:28:20

Give using your index finger a shot. My middle nail used to thin right down and be prone to splitting, however now I use my index the problem has gone away due to the different angle of attack with my index hitting the strings. (It gets chipped away at the edge rather than thinned)

It will be awkward at first to use a different finger but you quickly adjust. You might think the tone is bad at first, but that is just because it is different and you are used to the tone the other finger produces.

If you don't permanently switch, at least you will have the ability to give your middle some 'breathing space' to not thin down as much and grow stronger naturally.

Helix - Posted - 03/23/2021:  03:08:57

Nurse Banjo says always remember proper nutrition from the inside out. And call your mom.

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/23/2021:  08:36:13

Thanks to all the advice on being cautious, I do appreciate it and duly take note of it all.



I am a banjo newbie, but I'm also an engineer who's  been working with my hands around sharp edges, soldering irons, chemicals, hot melt glue, machine tools, you name it, for a long time (50+ years) and have had more than my share of self-inflicted injuries due to basic stupidity... thankfully, I still have all my fingers and toes (ok, missing a bit of a toe :^) and have developed my own sense of self-preservation, which is based on practical experience and the best facts I can get my hands on.



CA was used for field surgery in Vietnam and I've used it for years to patch up deep cuts, for example, on the end of a  finger. Once, when I smacked myself in the forehead with a 2'x4' and had to go to the emergency room (Hey, it was an accident! Did I mention stupid self-injuries? and no, my wife didn't do it.. they asked me that 3 times!), guess what they sealed the 2" split on my forehead with? ... you guessed it, CA glue (dermabond, not krazy glue of course), right in the wound -- really looked awful for a week.

I get it that CA is nothing to take lightly but it is a useful tool, and like any tool can hurt you if you're not careful. The CA/baking soda trick has made a really nice, hard shell on my nail that I like, but it's really hard to get a neat appearance. So I'll keep it in my toolbox and probably won't use it all the time.

I'm not trying to push it on anyone who isn't comfortable and wouldn't want to see anyone get hurt (although on my own scale, this really does not rate a high risk.. others may disagree, which is fine.. dip your finger in water if it gets hot).

I will try what James Taylor showed in his video. A big revelation for me was that "nail glue" exists and is made of n-butyl cyanoacrylate, while "krazy glue" is primarily ethyl cyanoacrylate, so I'm going to get some of the nail glue and start working with that from now on.

Glad to see that people on BHO care enough to respond!

















 

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/23/2021:  08:40:30

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyW

Give using your index finger a shot. ...

Thanks Andy, I will give that a try. My middle finger is almost a full knuckle longer than my index finger so that might be a challenge (maybe true for everyone? IDK), but I can see how being able to switch back and forth would be a good thing

Edited by - Clutch Cargo on 03/23/2021 08:41:17

AndyW - Posted - 03/23/2021:  09:46:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Clutch Cargo

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyW

Give using your index finger a shot. ...

Thanks Andy, I will give that a try. My middle finger is almost a full knuckle longer than my index finger so that might be a challenge (maybe true for everyone? IDK), but I can see how being able to switch back and forth would be a good thing

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My middle is also a fair bit longer than my index, it doesn't really matter.

It will be a challenge, as like anything totally new will seem impossible at first. You just have to keep at it and give it a few sleeps with practice every day so your mind (muscle memory) can adjust.  Accept befor you start it will be an incremental progress and after a week or so it will be pretty easyish.

I've pretty much switched to index almost permanently as my nail stays ok with index, but still occasionally use my middle when I need to play quietly as I find that a touch easier with middle.

hweinberg - Posted - 03/23/2021:  12:06:01

CA is still widely used for wound closure. The "new skin" liquid that is sold to deal small cuts is just CA. I use silk nails that I put on myself -- 3 layers of silk and CA.

Lew H - Posted - 03/23/2021:  13:14:56

I've tried a bunch of different things, but press on nails are my current go to for broken or worn nails. One lasts me about two weeks. I haven't found a place to buy only one size: They are sold in sets for women's nail sizes, so only the thumb nail fits my frailing finger. Oh, there are some larger sets with larger prices for cross-dressers.

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/23/2021:  13:57:41

quote:

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Originally posted by Lew H

I haven't found a place to buy only one size:

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Lew, I just discovered that Strings By Mail  sells batches of a single size... Here's an example that's 17/32" (13.5mm) wide.. $7 for a 10-pack stringsbymail.com/strings-by-m...3331.html

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/23/2021:  19:10:04

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyW

quote:

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Originally posted by Clutch Cargo

quote:

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Originally posted by AndyW

Give using your index finger a shot. ...

Thanks Andy, I will give that a try. My middle finger is almost a full knuckle longer than my index finger so that might be a challenge (maybe true for everyone? IDK), but I can see how being able to switch back and forth would be a good thing

---

My middle is also a fair bit longer than my index, it doesn't really matter.

It will be a challenge, as like anything totally new will seem impossible at first. You just have to keep at it and give it a few sleeps with practice every day so your mind (muscle memory) can adjust.  Accept befor you start it will be an incremental progress and after a week or so it will be pretty easyish.

I've pretty much switched to index almost permanently as my nail stays ok with index, but still occasionally use my middle when I need to play quietly as I find that a touch easier with middle.

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I gave the index finger a try tonight for about an hour ... it definitely feels odd, but I can do it.

It is a lot louder (makes sense since the finger is a lot shorter/stiffer) and in some ways feels easier  to control than my middle finger. It does throw off what little "aim" I've developed for hitting the lower strings in dropped thumbing, but I'm sure I can get used to it.  Thanks for the advice.

carolynf - Posted - 03/24/2021:  13:07:30

I used to try stuff on my nails, but gave it up because polish-based stuff made my nails weaker, and press-ons took away some of the "feel." I heartily recommend being able to play with all 4 fingers of your right hand. Sometimes, just for fun, I'll play with my pinkie. You never know what you might need to do with playing your banjo.

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/24/2021:  18:27:20

quote:

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Originally posted by carolynf

I used to try stuff on my nails, but gave it up because polish-based stuff made my nails weaker, and press-ons took away some of the "feel." I heartily recommend being able to play with all 4 fingers of your right hand. Sometimes, just for fun, I'll play with my pinkie. You never know what you might need to do with playing your banjo.

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Thanks Carolyn, sounds like good advice. As a banjo beginner, I'm certainly using too much force and am in danger of wearing a hole in my middle finger nail --  it needs some kind of protection until it heals up and I get to be a better player.  I'm going to give the fiberglass wrap material and nail glue a try for now, and try to learn to use other fingers as well.

BTW, I said above that "nail glue" used n-butyl CA (used in surgical applications) and some brands apparently do, but I've since found out that most nail glues on the shelf are actually just ethyl CA, which is plain old superglue. I imagine that the UV resin would be good since it's a reaction with the light instead of using volatile chemicals, as long as you don't mind buying the UV equipment, etc.

carolynf - Posted - 03/24/2021:  19:12:06

If I were a professional performer, I’d slap some fiberglass nails on this week. But I can nuance how hard I play as I wish.

Random Scandinavian - Posted - 03/25/2021:  10:38:09

I remember an old VHS tape I had of John Renbourne where he mentions using ping pong balls and superglue. I never dared to try it myself as he recommended gluing them to the underside of an already long natural nail. It raises all kinds of questions.

Here is a (different) clip of him briefly mentioning it, starting at 1:30
youtu.be/LuYjmxkD-8Y

Clutch Cargo - Posted - 03/25/2021:  14:48:22

quote:

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Originally posted by Random Scandinavian

I remember an old VHS tape I had of John Renbourne where he mentions using ping pong balls and superglue. I never dared to try it myself as he recommended gluing them to the underside of an already long natural nail. It raises all kinds of questions.



Here is a (different) clip of him briefly mentioning it, starting at 1:30

youtu.be/LuYjmxkD-8Y

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Yikes! I don't know which is worse, the sight of how that thumb picking style threatens to lift the long thumbnail up off the thumb, or the idea of gluing pingpong ball shells under the nails.



Makes me very glad clawhammer only requires striking the nail from the top! Thanks for the video though, nice to see all possibilities and kind of puts things in perspective (too much f*****g perspective, as the Spinal Tap boys would say)