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Wildeman - Posted - 12/29/2020: 18:06:44
Just got this lovely old banjo with a bit of history. The research I've done tells me its a Lange built Banjo but i could be wrong, info is pretty scarce so please chime in if you know anything. This is definitely the fanciest instrument I've ever owned and i can tell it's previous owner Dee Freeman loved it alot. Dee was a member of the Peninsula Banjo band in the S.F. bay area and attended the Sacramento Banjo-Rama in '69, maybe that's where she had the head signed by none other than Eddie Peabody!
I'm proud to own this beauty, here she is.
pasdimo - Posted - 12/29/2020: 19:31:14
Congratulations ! I was watching this model at Music Go Round at a good price, is it this one ? There is another one on Reverb, I'm tempted but I'm still sceptical about the sound, definitely well made and beautiful banjos but a friend of mine who owned one didn't find it had an outstanding sound. I'm curious to know your opinion.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/29/2020: 22:33:21
If you’re in the Bay Area and haven’t taken it by Gryphon, you should do o when that’s possible. Richard and/or Frank may have some knowledge about it.c
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 04:08:35
quote:
Originally posted by pasdimo
Congratulations ! I was watching this model at Music Go Round at a good price, is it this one ? There is another one on Reverb, I'm tempted but I'm still sceptical about the sound, definitely well made and beautiful banjos but a friend of mine who owned one didn't find it had an outstanding sound. I'm curious to know your opinion.
Thanks, yes MGR is where i got it. It has a nice classic tenor sound to my ears, it's my first tenor, and first archtop though so take that fwiw. I have another on the way, a Bruno conqueror with a flat top skin head to compare it to when it gets here, seems i always need two of everything haha.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 04:12:17
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers
If you’re in the Bay Area and haven’t taken it by Gryphon, you should do o when that’s possible. Richard and/or Frank may have some knowledge about it.c
Hey, not in the BA but in the next town over from you in Galt. I've been to Gryphon a few times and it's a lovely shop, I'd like to go again at a sensible time.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 04:14:29
Here's couple more pix.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 04:38:51
More
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 04:41:25
Is there any maintenance these old geared tuners need? they work and hold but seem like a little lubricant might be in order.
Bill Rogers - Posted - 12/30/2020: 05:22:23
They look like they’re open if you remove them. Packing with Vaseline would both lubricate and protect them from rust.
tdennis - Posted - 12/30/2020: 08:55:32
This was made by William Lange. I have a tenor labeled Tempo Grand w/ many similar features, (in the shop waiting repairs). I acquired it in a state of disrepair so have not played it, but I have never been disappointed by a Lange product for sonic qualities & playability.
beezaboy - Posted - 12/30/2020: 09:17:53
The Bruno Royal Artist banjo was a brand name for jobber C. Bruno & Son of NYC. Bruno and Wm. L. Lange had a close business relationship from the very beginning (1897) until the later 1920's. The Royal Artist appears to have been introduced in 1925 but hard to document that exactly. For sure it was part of Bruno's banjo line-up in 1926 (see attached). There were 3 styles of The Royal Artist (A, B, and C) in the 1926-1927 Bruno catalog scans courtesy of Vintaxe
beezaboy - Posted - 12/30/2020: 09:19:06
The Royal Artist Style C attached.
Emiel - Posted - 12/30/2020: 09:22:40
The five-string version is called "regulation banjo"… 
banjowilly22 - Posted - 12/30/2020: 11:13:23
Hi, I used to own a style A which was an obvious copy of the Paramount style A model.
It was a really nice and well made Banjo, but didn’t have a sound as good as a Paramount.
.Keith
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 17:50:40
Good stuff guys, appreciate the information. The Bruno Conqueror i bought on line is from the same era, probably earlier than '26 and is clearly made by one of the Chicago jobbers. Stromberg Voisenet/Kay and Regal keep coming up in any research threads i follow. I own a '20s S.V. plectrum already and there's no similarities i can see, no Regal banjos here, only guitars so ill post that one here too. Thanks
DSmoke - Posted - 12/30/2020: 18:03:35
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hi, I used to own a style A which was an obvious copy of the Paramount style A model.
It was a really nice and well made Banjo, but didn’t have a sound as good as a Paramount.
.Keith
Many of the Bruno's look like copies, but I've yet to see a Bruno with the same tone ring setup as a Lange labeled banjo. Even the example here has a very unique tone ring setup which might only be seen on a Bruno banjo. Maybe some of the researchers here would know if this was a Lange or Bruno decision.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 18:16:46
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
quote:
Originally posted by banjowilly22
Hi, I used to own a style A which was an obvious copy of the Paramount style A model.
It was a really nice and well made Banjo, but didn’t have a sound as good as a Paramount.
.Keith
Many of the Bruno's look like copies, but I've yet to see a Bruno with the same tone ring setup as a Lange labeled banjo. Even the example here has a very unique tone ring setup which might only be seen on a Bruno banjo. Maybe some of the researchers here would know if this was a Lange or Bruno decision.
They're is another one of these on line with a clear head so you can see the tonering suspension, the only other similar thing ive found is by Lange. I too hope more knowledge gets shared here.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/30/2020: 18:20:34
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
This was made by William Lange. I have a tenor labeled Tempo Grand w/ many similar features, (in the shop waiting repairs). I acquired it in a state of disrepair so have not played it, but I have never been disappointed by a Lange product for sonic qualities & playability.
I'd love to see pix of your banjo if you can. Thanks
tdennis - Posted - 12/30/2020: 20:31:10
(Tempo Grand, missing pearl & not fully assembled. Apart from sharing many features, the pot & the suspension of the archtop ring is radically different from the Royal Artist.
tdennis - Posted - 12/30/2020: 20:42:05
Dowel is marked, Pat OCT 21-24
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 06:26:08
I was just looking at some Paramount Style B's and they are different still. It seems Wm. Lange wanted to be sure that their own banjo's were totally unique, a "if it don't say Paramount, then it isn't a Paramount " type thing, even if the high quality Lange construction is evident.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 06:44:54
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
Dowel is marked, Pat OCT 21-24
Mine is marked the same. I looked it up and it doesn't exist.
There is a patend filed on 12/14/21 and granted US1550826A on 8/25/25 to Wm. Lange for a shell resonator. Maybe it took a little longer than anticipated to get to the filing office.
I downloaded the patent in a pdf but cant figure out how to paste it here. Its quite interesting and shows the cutaway of a Paramount, tone ring suspension and all.
Edited by - Wildeman on 12/31/2020 06:55:22
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 07:07:25
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis
(Tempo Grand, missing pearl & not fully assembled. Apart from sharing many features, the pot & the suspension of the archtop ring is radically different from the Royal Artist.
Mine is actually starting to lose some of Its headstock inlay too, is there a good way to stop it that won't be too intrusive?
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:11:14
What if The Royal Artist and Tempo Grande banjos were made by Albert Houdlett & Sons on Melrose Street in Brooklyn and not by Wm. L. Lange?
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:17:55
tdennis has a Tempo Grande with dowel marked Pat Oct. 21-'24.
Attached is the patent.
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:30:10
At The Beefsteak Dinner of the Association of Musical Instrument Dealers of New York held in November 1925 at Keen's Chophouse Bert Lowe played a Royal Artist banjo. The Royal Artist banjo was furnished to Lowe courtesy of Albert Houdlett & Sons. This is the first mention in the press or otherwise that I can find about the Royal Artist banjo.
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:43:18
Albert Houdlett died in 1917. His musical instrument manufacturing business was continued by his six sons. Emil Houdlett was one of the managing sons in the Albert Houdlett & Sons business. I too once owned a Royal Artist tenor banjo. Attached is a photo of the innards of the rim depicting Emil Houdlett's patented elevated tone ring gizmos.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:49:49
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
At The Beefsteak Dinner of the Association of Musical Instrument Dealers of New York held in November 1925 at Keen's Chophouse Bert Lowe played a Royal Artist banjo. The Royal Artist banjo was furnished to Lowe courtesy of Albert Houdlett & Sons. This is the first mention in the press or otherwise that I can find about the Royal Artist banjo.
This is great research, thank you.
This seems to be the most likely builder for these banjos with evidence like this.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 08:55:14
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
Albert Houdlett died in 1917. His musical instrument manufacturing business was continued by his six sons. Emil Houdlett was one of the managing sons in the Albert Houdlett & Sons business. I too once owned a Royal Artist tenor banjo. Attached is a photo of the innards of the rim depicting Emil Houdlett's patented elevated tone ring gizmos.
tdennis's Tempo Grand has those same one's but it looks like my Royal Artist has a different setup. I really don't wanna take mine apart but im very curious to see. I concur that all three of these banjos are clearly by the same manufacturer.
Edited by - Wildeman on 12/31/2020 09:05:44
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 09:13:22
I don't know who determined that Wm. L. Lange was the maker of Bruno Tempo Grande and Royal Artist banjos. I have done quite a bit of research about Wm. L. Lange and never found a mention in the contemporary literature of Lange being linked to the Tempo Grande or Royal Artist banjos. Maybe the Lange builder attribution is mythical and just got passed on through the eons until it became fact. One of the Houdlett brand names was Nu Art. Attached are a couple of photos I saved from long ago. A Houdlett Nu Art tenor banjo with a peghead shape similar to the Tempo Grande and Royal Artist. This Nu Art is equipped with Emil Houdlett's patented tone hoop elevator gizmos and is dowel stamped like tdennis's Tempo Grande. In fact, it was tdennis' post about his Tempo Grande dowel patent stamp that got me to thinking about this interesting question. Who manufactured The Bruno Tempo Grande and Bruno Royal Artist banjos and why was the first Royal Artist to be played publicly furnished courtesy of the Houdlett firm.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 11:17:16
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
I don't know who determined that Wm. L. Lange was the maker of Bruno Tempo Grande and Royal Artist banjos. I have done quite a bit of research about Wm. L. Lange and never found a mention in the contemporary literature of Lange being linked to the Tempo Grande or Royal Artist banjos. Maybe the Lange builder attribution is mythical and just got passed on through the eons until it became fact. One of the Houdlett brand names was Nu Art. Attached are a couple of photos I saved from long ago. A Houdlett Nu Art tenor banjo with a peghead shape similar to the Tempo Grande and Royal Artist. This Nu Art is equipped with Emil Houdlett's patented tone hoop elevator gizmos and is dowel stamped like tdennis's Tempo Grande. In fact, it was tdennis' post about his Tempo Grande dowel patent stamp that got me to thinking about this interesting question. Who manufactured The Bruno Tempo Grande and Bruno Royal Artist banjos and why was the first Royal Artist to be played publicly furnished courtesy of the Houdlett firm.
Well, as with many "facts" on the internet, it's easy to take something and run with it, untill it eventually changes hands so many times that its the only thing you can find thus becoming fact like you said.
My banjo has the same dowel stamp so hopefully anybody looking will find this thread and know that these are Houdlett banjos. I appreciate all your input.
Edited by - Wildeman on 12/31/2020 11:18:30
DSmoke - Posted - 12/31/2020: 12:18:42
Fascinating beezaboy. I believe these pictures will more than justify why one would "assume" Lange made them. This is my Paramount B serial number 147 that I posted here about before and a Paramount Leader that I previously owned. This leads me to wonder what is the rim size on the Royal Artist and Tempo Grande? If I remember correctly the Tempo Grande is 11-1/2".
tdennis - Posted - 12/31/2020: 12:20:24
Thanks for your detailed research. It could be the case that these banjos were identified across the internet & on the BHO as Lange made because of the close similarities to the Paramount Jr. peghead , the complex tone ring suspension of Paramount instruments, & their connection to Bruno.
banjohangout.org/archive/157163/3
beezaboy - Posted - 12/31/2020: 14:04:17
The Royal Artist peghead sure looks like a Paramount in Dan's photos.
Emil Houdlett's patent does not have an assignment history in the USPTO website so there can be some conjecture here.
According to the Royal Artist peghead it is a Bruno Royal Artist.
I suppose it is possible that Bruno could have obtained a license or assignment from Emil Houdlett for the gizmo tone hoop elevator patent and turned the manufacture of the Bruno Royal Artist banjos over to Lange. Seems like anything is possible in banjo world. Bacon banjos made by Gretsch; Oscar Schmidt banjos with Lange rims; Ward's Recording Kings made by Gibson; etc., etc.
G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/31/2020: 15:04:58
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
The Royal Artist peghead sure looks like a Paramount in Dan's photos.
Emil Houdlett's patent does not have an assignment history in the USPTO website so there can be some conjecture here.
According to the Royal Artist peghead it is a Bruno Royal Artist.
I suppose it is possible that Bruno could have obtained a license or assignment from Emil Houdlett for the gizmo tone hoop elevator patent and turned the manufacture of the Bruno Royal Artist banjos over to Lange. Seems like anything is possible in banjo world. Bacon banjos made by Gretsch; Oscar Schmidt banjos with Lange rims; Ward's Recording Kings made by Gibson; etc., etc.
Another possibility is that Houdlett bought parts from Lange.
Wildeman - Posted - 12/31/2020: 15:23:08
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
Fascinating beezaboy. I believe these pictures will more than justify why one would "assume" Lange made them. This is my Paramount B serial number 147 that I posted here about before and a Paramount Leader that I previously owned. This leads me to wonder what is the rim size on the Royal Artist and Tempo Grande? If I remember correctly the Tempo Grande is 11-1/2".
My Royal Artist has an 11" head and does not have the patented Houdlett tone ring supports though it still has the patent date on it. Otherwise it is identical to the one Beezaboy posted.
tdennis - Posted - 12/31/2020: 15:32:03
The banjo in my shop has a shell diameter of 10 5/8", & the archtop ring is 9".
DSmoke - Posted - 12/31/2020: 18:38:14
quote:
Originally posted by Wildeman
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
Fascinating beezaboy. I believe these pictures will more than justify why one would "assume" Lange made them. This is my Paramount B serial number 147 that I posted here about before and a Paramount Leader that I previously owned. This leads me to wonder what is the rim size on the Royal Artist and Tempo Grande? If I remember correctly the Tempo Grande is 11-1/2".
My Royal Artist has an 11" head and does not have the patented Houdlett tone ring supports though it still has the patent date on it. Otherwise it is identical to the one Beezaboy posted.
I noticed in your pictures that it looks like your tone ring is supported by wood, which looks beveled inward from the rim. It could just be my perception of the photo. It looked very unique to me and unlike other Bruno's I've seen online. I would also like to confirm the 11" measurement. Most Paramounts are 11-1/8" and are often mistakenly fitted with 11" heads. However the Paramount rim is not 11", but the tone ring supports and metal band create that head diameter. So if there was a change in that design it is very conceivable that it could be 11"
banjotrader - Posted - 01/01/2021: 04:09:28
Remember Lange supplied parts, and also made full banjos to the boutique owners desire/specs. There is no question Lange was involved, but Bruno also had Epiphone do stuff for them as well. No different than today, a factory makes products for themselves and repackages for others. They were all marketing machines and seeing those factory photos you’d think they were major operations, when they probably only occupied a room or two in the entire building. Perception was, and still is, everything.
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 07:24:05
Found these Bruno Tempo Grande photos in an old file.
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 08:22:43
Happy New Year! It's dark and raining here. Perfectly grim outside. So FWIW here are some more Bruno Tempo Grande tenor banjo photos I took. Years ago I bought this banjo from a Storage Unit picker when I was trying to learn about banjos made in New York City.
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 08:31:16
A few more storage unit Bruno Tempo Grande pics. I never could figure out who made the odd tone ring assembly until tdennis revealed his patent dowel stick stamp. Who would have thought Albert Houdlett & Sons and Emil Houdlett?? Not me apparently.
tdennis - Posted - 01/01/2021: 08:41:15
John, (...one funny little detail , someone forgot how to spell the model name of my Tempo Grand) Even though some pearl is missing overall, there never was an "E".
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 12:22:39
tdennis - sorry about your missing "e". I'll bet nobody will ever notice when you get the banjo finished!
BTW - here is another Lange feature on the Bruno Tempo Grande. First a few photos of a Lange (plus Rettberg) Orpheum No. 1 tenor banjo #1890 which shows a skirt that does not fit snug to the rim but leaves some room between the outside of the rim and the skirt. I think I read that this was on purpose to allow the banjo tone to project from the elevated tone hoop through the gap left by the extended skirt.
Edited by - beezaboy on 01/01/2021 12:37:11
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 12:36:10
Now here attached is Storage Unit picker Bruno Tempo Grande. Note the skirt. Certainly appears to be a sort of Lange configuration as seen on the Orpheum - not the exact same but the Bruno Tempo Grande seems to track the idea. Both the Orpheum and the Bruno Tempo Grande were open back banjos.
tdennis - Posted - 01/01/2021: 13:02:38
(My Joke about the spelling has backfired ). This thread, & exchange of photos has made me realize that the tenor I have Is a no. 2, which is actually named "Tempo Grand", (no missing 'E"). It seems the change from no 1 to no 2 also entails a spelling change. I also noticed the peghead & fretboard inlays are different between the 1&2.
Thanks to everyone in this thread for setting up the revelation of some new details.
Wildeman - Posted - 01/01/2021: 15:05:48
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
quote:
Originally posted by Wildeman
quote:
Originally posted by DSmoke
Fascinating beezaboy. I believe these pictures will more than justify why one would "assume" Lange made them. This is my Paramount B serial number 147 that I posted here about before and a Paramount Leader that I previously owned. This leads me to wonder what is the rim size on the Royal Artist and Tempo Grande? If I remember correctly the Tempo Grande is 11-1/2".
My Royal Artist has an 11" head and does not have the patented Houdlett tone ring supports though it still has the patent date on it. Otherwise it is identical to the one Beezaboy posted.
I noticed in your pictures that it looks like your tone ring is supported by wood, which looks beveled inward from the rim. It could just be my perception of the photo. It looked very unique to me and unlike other Bruno's I've seen online. I would also like to confirm the 11" measurement. Most Paramounts are 11-1/8" and are often mistakenly fitted with 11" heads. However the Paramount rim is not 11", but the tone ring supports and metal band create that head diameter. So if there was a change in that design it is very conceivable that it could be 11"
Yes, the tone ring sits on a wood ledge, there are also some other supports in line with the hooks that are hard to see through the head.
Wildeman - Posted - 01/01/2021: 15:31:47
Bruno banjo number 2 is on its way. It will be my campfire tenor and looks more like a Oscar Schmidt or Stromberg Voisenet product to me. It was cheap and i really dig its vibe. Its a Bruno Conqueror.
Edited by - Wildeman on 01/01/2021 15:32:49
DSmoke - Posted - 01/01/2021: 17:01:18
beezaboy The Orpheums I've had the outer skirt rest on the top of the shoes, while the Paramount go over the shoes and rest on the perpendicular part of it. If that doesn't make sense I will take pictures tomorrow as I have both on hand.
beezaboy - Posted - 01/01/2021: 17:05:23
tdennis - Your correspondent with the No. 2 Bruno Tempo Grand[e] may have been the victim of the same miss-speller that you have encountered with your Tempo Grand[e].. Attached courtesy of Vintaxe are pages from the Tempo Grande section of the Bruno 1926-1927 catalog. Consistently Grande with an "e". Perhaps a miscommunication between Bruno and the manufacturer. Whoever that was!!
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