mattn - Posted - 04/05/2019:  19:15:20

For the tune of the week this week, I have selected Young Edward. This is a really great old Hiram Stamper tune that over time has mutated into Clinch Mountain Backstep. The story I heard was that Hiram taught Art Stamper, who taught it to Ralph Stanley when he was in the Clinch Mountain Boys, and that eventually became the basis of Clinch Mountain Backstep. CMB is kind of famous as a well-known crooked bluegrass tune, but it sounds like a Sousa march compared to how Hiram pulses the fiddle. It isn't actually super-crooked, but Hiram's phrasing and timing gives it a very surprising feel. It's a real fun challenge to try and get that same feel on the banjo!

 

I have sourced a bunch of variations on Young Edward to show the transitional forms between Hiram Stamper's version and modern versions of Clinch Mountain Backstep. They're all fun to play, you just can't go wrong with this tune...

Hiram Stamper (fiddle)

This is the track where I first learned Young Edward. Hiram Stamper fiddles it in his distinctive style, with crooked or unusual phrasing. You can get the feel for the pulse of the song after a few listens. The recording starts in the middle of one of the parts, making it seem even more crooked than it really is!

The notes on the recording call it a variation of Drunkard's Dream.

dla.acaweb.org/digital/collect...a/id/147/

Old Time Fiddle Tune on youtube (fiddle)

Sorry I don't know this guy's name, but I like his version too!



youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3Nz4EGS7w

Randy Adams (mountain dulcimer)

This is a cool rendition with a melody more like Hiram's. It plays out really nicely on the dulcimer!

youtube.com/watch?v=Omlk_GiO_Bc

Charlie Stamper (fiddle)

This is a recording of Charlie Stamper playing Young Edward solo. Compare it to the fiddling on the Wilkes & Stamper recording below!



youtube.com/watch?gl=SN&hl...GOkz_ZPEY

J.D. Wilkes and Charlie Stamper (fiddle and banjo)

This version is a kind of transition between Hiram's version and Clinch Mountain Backstep.

open.spotify.com/album/3b5HScp...sikpIzslY

 

High Ridge Ramblers

Somewhere between Hiram and Charlie's versions, but this one weaves in lyrics that are some variation of Drunkard's Dream.

youtube.com/watch?v=y537QWhMHAA

Ralph Stanley (banjo)

Now we're getting to the more modern variation of this tune, as Clinch Mountain Backstep. 

youtube.com/watch?v=Ur7cXcU5Nlk

Dora Mae Wagers (banjo)

This is a track from Kentucky Old-Time Banjo. Dora Mae plays Young Edward on the banjo, somewhere on the Clinch Mountain Backstep side of the spectrum.

 amazon.com/Young-Edward/dp/B00...7BI5uqG60

Me (banjo)

I tried to turn Hiram Stamper's version into something on the fretless banjo. This is in sawmill tuning, but lowered down to E or F or so.



youtube.com/watch?v=C--NQymy0tU

 

Janet B's banjo tab

Janet did a nice arrangement of Young Edward based on Charlie's fiddling that I have attached to this post. Thank you, Janet!

Other related tunes

Janet wrote to JD Wilkes and forwarded on to me some interesting speculation about the realtionship between Young Edward and the ballads Young Emily (youtube.com/watch?v=CeAPfHSzq3o) and Young Edwin in the Lowlands Low (youtube.com/watch?v=8kww3DY3jy0).

Edited by - mattn on 04/06/2019 07:56:28

Janet B's banjot tab for Young Edward

 

banjukebox - Posted - 04/06/2019:  06:22:33

That's a great tune! Thanks for all the info you provided.

janolov - Posted - 04/06/2019:  07:25:23

Great tune!

I have always associated Clinch Mountain Backstep with Lonesome John, by John Salyer:  slippery-hill.com/recording/lonesome-john which were recorded in December 1941. Lonesome John was a TOTW 10 years ago:  banjohangout.org/archive/152501

Salyer was born in 1882, and Hiram Stamper 1893 and both were from Kentucky. So a question is: if it is the same tune, who was first? Or is there another earlier version by an earlier fiddler/musician?

Edited by - janolov on 04/06/2019 07:32:10

mattn - Posted - 04/06/2019:  08:07:18

No answers here, but a bit more context about where the tune came from before Hiram Stamper was found in these liner notes from Bruce Greene, also found and forwarded along by Janet B (thanks again!). It says that Hiram learned Young Edward from his uncle Daniel Triplett.

Young Edward liner notes from Bruce Green

 

mattn - Posted - 04/06/2019:  08:21:51

Some more notes from the Berea College archives:

137-01  Young Edward: Key of A, fiddle tuned aeae. Recorded 03-20-77. This is an old song, The Drunkard's Dream, turned into a fiddle tune. Stamper sang bits of the song but could not remember it all. It is a version of Lonesome John, a very popular tune in the Magoffin / Morgan County area.

I'm not sure where Hiram Stamper was born, but I believe he died and is buried in Knott county, which neighbors Magoffin county to the south.

JanetB - Posted - 04/06/2019:  08:56:51

It was exciting, Matt, to first hear your fretless banjo post learned from Hiram Stamper. I'm a keen fan of Art Stamper so this further exploration is all welcome.

I heard the crookedness in your version, too, but when I listened to another version -- the solo by brother Charlie Stamper (embedded below), who learned it from their father, Hiram -- I hear a straight tune resembling Clinch Mountain Backstep, though more minor in its noting.  J.D. Wilkes, who recorded with and produced two CDs with Charlie, also noted that the title Young Edward in the Lowlands is an old English murder ballad which he feels may be related.  There are several on-line videos.  So far in my listening I don't hear enough similarity in melody to put the ballad and our tune together.



I would have recorded the Bruce Greene version as a medley with the Charlie Stamper version, but the 5th string is tuned differently. Otherwise, they're both in sawmill tuning.  Bruce's is crooked, learned directly from Hiram Stamper, though I only had to decrease one measure in the tab to 2 beats to make it come out evenly.  But when played and heard you feel more crookedness, and in a tab I'd want to see downbeats at the beginning of a measure and not at the end.  If I tabbed Young Edward in that manner, I think I'd have many crooked measures, which makes for a rather messy tab.  Further input from you is welcome.  Last night I wrote to Bruce, hopefully to learn more of his experience visiting Hiram and learning his fiddle tunes.

 

Young Edward (Bruce Greene) (TOTW)

Young Edward (Charlie Stamper) (TOTW)

Young Edward (Bruce Greene) (CH tab)

Young Edward (Charlie Stamper) (CH tab)

JanetB - Posted - 04/08/2019:  21:54:50

Bruce Greene is legendary in his work collecting Kentucky tunes from fiddlers whom I consider as the premier source recordings, so I'm happy to report that he answered some questions about Hiram Stamper and Young Edward.  He wrote that Art Stamper taught Ralph Stanley the tune, which was renamed.  

"Janet, Hiram played this, like most of his tunes, with considerable variation, so your version seems just fine to me.

Yes, Hiram's son Art took Young Edward and renamed it Clinch Mountain Backstep while he was playing with the Stanley Brothers.

I don't know about an old English murder ballad, but this Young Edward is a song once well known in East Kentucky, also called The Drunkard's Dream, so more of a regional song I think. It starts out, 'Young Edward you look healthy now / Your clothes are neat and clean / I never see you drink a drop / What's caused this happy change?'  One of those moralistic temperance songs, but quite a good one, and it fits the Young Edward melody.

Bruce"

hbick2 - Posted - 06/18/2019:  05:12:14

Sorry to chime in so late, but I was in Ireland when this topic was being discussed.

Art Stamper and I were best friends and played music together for 40 years. We started playing Bluegrass together in the 1960s when Danny Jones and I would go out to Art's farm on weekends and play all night. As I drifted away from Bluegrass and towards old-time music in the 1970s, Art began playing some of the older tunes that he remembered from his childhood.

Art and I played Young Edward together, but in 40 years I never heard him claim that he had taught it to Ralph Stanley who then recorded it as Clinch Mountain Backstep. I don't think he ever considered himself as Ralph's source. Hiram, however, could possibly have claimed that, particularly in his later years.

There was one funny incident that I thought I would relate. Art and I arrived at the family home early one evening and Hiram was standing there next to the record player. I think it was shortly after we had recorded the Lost Fiddler album. I seem to remember that Hiram was playing a record of Clinch Mountain Backstep as we walked in. Regardless, the subject of Clinch Mountain Backstep came up, most certainly by Hiram and not by Art or me. What I remember most was Hiram's gravelly voice saying "Ralph Stanley called this the Clinch Mountain Backstep. Hell! I've danced the backstep and that ain't it." I've always remembered those words and chuckled as I did so.

Hiram played and sang Young Edward for us very late one night, sitting at their kitchen table. Somewhere I have a tape of it that I will check, but I think these are the words he sang:

As I went home the other night
As dark and dismal gloom
I miss my wife, where could she be
And strangers filled the room

Pass around the bottle boys
Granny’s on a spree
Them that don’t like me boys
They can let me be

Hiram was a little hard to understand, so Art may have filled in a word or two, but this is basically it.

Harry Bickel
Louisville, KY

JanetB - Posted - 06/18/2019:  20:57:55

Thank you, Harry. How awesome you have had such a direct connection with the Stampers and added a rare personal touch to our thread.