Ybanjo - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:15:06

I just ran into a chord on some sheet music that I didn't recognize. It's called Dno3rd. I looked at the guitar tab for that chord and also looked up that chord information. To me it looks just like the chord D5. So, please tell me what is the difference between these two chords. Thanks.

HerbMeister - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:34:03

What the music calls for is D power chord. Assuming that the guitar is tuned E,A,D,G,B,E. I hope that helps you out.

music.stackexchange.com/questi...o3-chords

Edited by - HerbMeister on 05/29/2018 08:40:01

rfink1913 - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:34:36

I see what you did there

Ybanjo - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:37:53

I understand that D5 is the same as D power chord. I've also heard it called Super D chord. But what is the difference between these two chords? Are they exactly the same, with a different name??

Rick McKeon - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:48:48

That's a strange way to write it, but he's saying D chord without the 3rd (no3). As others have said, it's called a power chord and often used in rock music. Without the 3rd it is neither major nor minor.

Rick

Ybanjo - Posted - 05/29/2018:  08:59:29

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick McKeon

That's a strange way to write it, but he's saying D chord without the 3rd (no3). As others have said, it's called a power chord and often used in rock music. Without the 3rd it is neither major nor minor.



Rick

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So Rick, isn't that the same chord as D5??

Edited by - Ybanjo on 05/29/2018 08:59:55

krw2dbw - Posted - 05/29/2018:  09:32:05

The utility of power chords / 5th chords is that, since they are neither major or minor, anyone improvising has a larger selection of scales to choose from. When I first started learning blues on guitar I was using full chords which did not work so well at Jams. The Shuffle has no third so that the person playing lead can bend the third without causing dissonance. Once the person playing backup plays a major or minor chord he has limited the lead player selection of scales to play over the backup.

krw2dbw - Posted - 05/29/2018:  09:34:16

I am sure if it is actually a chord by definition since it is not three tones?

krw2dbw - Posted - 05/29/2018:  09:35:58

Let me try that again. I am not sure it is actually a chord by definition, since it is not three tones

janolov - Posted - 05/29/2018:  10:09:49

quote:

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Originally posted by krw2dbw

Let me try that again. I am not sure it is actually a chord by definition, since it is not three tones

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There are different opinions about how many notes there are in a chord. Wikipedia says: "A chord, in music, is any harmonic set of pitches consisting of two or more (usually three or more) notes (also called "pitches") that are heard as if sounding simultaneously", but in the references in the Wikipedia article there are both mentioned two notes and three notes:

• Benward & Saker (2003). Music: In Theory and Practice, Vol. I, pp. 67, 359. Seventh Edition. ISBN 978-0-07-294262-0."A chord is a harmonic unit with at least three different tones sounding simultaneously." "A combination of three or more pitches sounding at the same time."


• Károlyi, Otto (1965). Introducing Music. Penguin Books. p. 63. Two or more notes sounding simultaneously are known as a chord.

250gibson - Posted - 05/29/2018:  10:15:51

An X5 chord, power chord, and X(no3rd) are synonymous. However I agree they are not technically chords as chords at minimum are triads (3 tones). Root-5th played at the same time is usually called a double stop, not a chord.  A power chord is usually root-5th-octave, so that is technically not a double stop nor a chord. Usually the no3rd designation is used when there is an extended chord where the 7th, 9th, etc. indicate its role as either  major or dominate/minor when the third is omitted. In this case the minor and dominat are ambiguous as the 3rd would be missing. But they would technically be chords as they would contain 3 pitches (root, 5th, and either natural 7th (Xmaj7(no3rd) or flat 7th X-7(no3rd)/X7(no3rd). 

Edited by - 250gibson on 05/29/2018 10:24:42

frisco slim - Posted - 05/31/2018:  20:34:08

It's not technically a chord, but it functions as a chord.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 06/01/2018:  06:24:44

As frisco slim says, it functions as a chord. The way I see it, each note in a major or minor chord has a specific function.

The root--well, it's the root, 'nuf said, right? But if you play it by itself and ask someone, "What chord?", they can't say. After all, a single note could be a part of any chord.

As soon as you add the 5th, though, you can tell what the root is. So the function of the 5th is to point to the root and say "That's the root."

The 3rd adds richness to the harmony and makes the chord either major or minor. But the 1 and the 5 are enough to establish the basic tonality.

Rick McKeon - Posted - 06/01/2018:  09:38:43

Ybanjo, Yes, as others have said, it could also be called a D5. Rick

Ybanjo - Posted - 06/01/2018:  09:48:36

Thanks Rick! That's exactly what I wanted to know.

rcc56 - Posted - 06/26/2018:  21:59:49

D5, D no 3rd, and D power chord all mean the same thing. They are composed of the notes D and A, with the D functioning as the root or fundamental.

I have a master's degree in music and am qualified to teach music theory in any conservatory in the country, but I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not a chord must contain at least three notes by definition. It all depends on what books you read, what the application is, and what your point of view is.

For those who want to better understand how the harmony of two notes may imply bigger things, Hindemith's discussion on "combination tones" can be enlightening. To actually hear combination tones, plug an electric guitar through a distortion unit, set the distortion at a fairly high level [it need not be loud, though], play several different intervals, and listen carefully. For some reason, the clipped wave form makes the combination tones quite audible.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 06/27/2018:  10:47:14

Another way to see that two notes may imply bigger things would be to listen to a two-part invention or simple canon. Bach could imply almost anything with two-notes; to play chords with an invention, one can only use the progreeions that Bach implied or else a dissonant chaos ensues.

Organs are a good example of how tones can be used for some unusual things. Smaller pipe organs have been built with short, slightly mistuned bass pipes to generate an audible lower note than the short length of either pipe would allow. The mistuning, if properly done, generates a beat rate that's strong and smooth enough to be audible as that low note.

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 06/27/2018:  17:20:11

I’m pretty hopelessly stuck in the past.  Arthur Birkby taught me (in 1967) that two different notes constitute an interval, not a chord; three or more different notes comprise a chord.  Part of the reason, he explained, is to facilitate description and/or analysis of a chord by the intervals from which it is constructed.  This was consistent with the nomenclature to which I was introduced beginning in 1962.

Rick McKeon - Posted - 06/28/2018:  17:15:55

OK, this discussion could go on forever and ever (and probably will), so let me just stir the pot a little. We as banjo players should be very familiar with the concept of "partial chords." We only have 5 strings to work with, and some of them are the same, so it's pretty common to give up some chord tones. Many times a student will say to me, "There is a 'D' above the tab here but I don't see anything that looks like a D chord in the tab." and I have to tell him, "That is the chord in the chord progression for this song during this measure, but we are playing melody notes and rolls, so we might not be holding a D chord at all. If you were playing with a guitar player, that is the chord he would be holding."

Many bass players play only one note at a time, but you can hear the chord very clearly because they are artulicating the chord and adding in guide tones that lead to the next chord. It's all part of what's going on at the time.

So, is a "power chord" a chord? Well, it's a partial chord. :)

Rick

rcc56 - Posted - 06/28/2018:  22:07:04

I have heard the 2 fingered G chord [G DGDD] that is frequently used in "double C" tuning [G CGCD] referred to as "G, sort of."



It occurs to me that I have never heard of this referred to as a "power chord" in this particular application.     

"Smoke On the Water" on the banjo, anyone?   







You know, we really need a "smiley" graphic of a face with its fingers in its ears.

Edited by - rcc56 on 06/28/2018 22:09:18

rcc56 - Posted - 06/28/2018:  22:53:52

I have also sometimes jokingly referred to tertian harmony as "Martian harmony." This helps to keep my students from drowning when they're trying to understand basic theory.

________________________________________________________________________________

I took a semester of composition as an elective. My first piece was a duet for clarinet and double bass in quartal harmony with a jazzy feel to it. The course professor got upset about that and said "You can't do that." I responded "Why not?" and he said something along the lines of "We don't do jazz in here," although he had recently debuted a 3 movement piece and titled the middle movement "Blues." So far as I know, the debut was the only performance of his piece-- apparently nobody wanted to buy it. So I wrote a rhythmically angular, semi-atonal piece of junk with no redeeming value to pass the course.

I did perform my quartal jazz piece with a piano trio at a concert in Memphis a year or two later. The audience seemed to like my little original piece. They paid us well for that concert, better than what we ordinarily would have received for an overnight gig. We got nicer rooms than usual and had a couple of better than average meals. They booked us back the next year.

To this day, I can't think of any conventional chord symbols that would accurately represent the chords in that piece. Thank goodness for dots on a staff.

Jim Yates - Posted - 06/29/2018:  07:19:12

These chords are often used in Irish trad music as well as rock.
A G5 (Gno3rd) is often used by bluegrass players as well 3X0033 or GDGDG.
Ukulele players sometimes use what they call Hawaiian D7, which has no root. 2020 or ACF#A.