Kurt Kemp - Posted - 01/17/2018:  08:43:20

Was curious if any of the B&D experts could tell me anything about a supposed 1932 B&D Serenator Silver Bell. Have the opportunity to buy one and it's right down the street. Thanks for anything you could tell me! Especially if it is really from 1932.

jbalch - Posted - 01/17/2018:  10:16:18

Can you get a serial number? Polle's database is here: B&D serial Numbers

I am NOT an expert. But a couple of things look a little odd to me:

1. the flange with round holes is more like what I would expect on an earlier banjo (1925 or before).

2. the tailpiece is incorrect.

Good luck with it!

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/17/2018:  10:48:19

I agree with John Balch that there are some things about this banjo that don't look quite right, particularly the flange and the tailpiece (although tailpieces are sometimes changed). Also, to me, the peghead lettering looks too sloppy to have been done in the Groton factory.

I would remove the resonator and look for a serial number and other identifying marks. A photo of the inside of this banjo would help.

Like John, I'm no B & D expert, but you should definitely gather more information from an expert (preferably an in-hand inspection by same) before laying out any cash.

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 01/17/2018:  10:59:03

Thank you both! I do know the tailpiece looks like a cheap clam shell and I found another picture of this banjo on his Facebook page that shows this banjo with a different tailpiece on it. Anyway, I have contacted him and as it turns out he was one of my high school teachers back in the late 70's. He is going to get me the serial number and a picture of the inside of the pot this evening.

Thanks for your help!

rudykizuty - Posted - 01/17/2018:  11:07:49

The neck and resonator back plate are definitely 1960’s Gretsch made.

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 01/17/2018:  11:13:56

Thanks, I had a lot of reservations about it being 1932 because it just has a similar look to it like a 1962 B&D Senorita I had a couple years ago. It had that same plastique look to it. I don't know squat about B&D banjos. Glad you guys do!

Edited by - Kurt Kemp on 01/17/2018 11:14:15

beezaboy - Posted - 01/17/2018:  14:09:50

I will second rudykizuty's observation.
The neck is from a later model b&d serenader made by Gretsch and if it has a 5-digit serial number stamped on the dowel we can estimate the date of manufacture pretty closely. Especially if the serial number is prefaced by gold "Made In USA"
The Gretsch serenader had a plain wood resonator back.
The Gretsch symphonie had the plastic veneer like the one on this banjo.
The flange is wrong as the Gretsch serenader and symphonie had fleur de lis (sic) cut-outs.
Can't tell from photos but this banjo may be a Gretsch serenader neck attached to an orphan rim and flange with the Gretsch symphonie colorful plastic veneer glued on the resonator back?

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 01/18/2018:  01:43:28

Thank you! This has been very helpful! What is it about the neck the says late Gretsch? Is it the peghead overlay and heel cap or the shape/ color?

beezaboy - Posted - 01/18/2018:  04:25:02

billsbanjos.com/baconserenader.htm

First and foremost it is the peghead shape and overlay that easily distinguishes the Brooklyn Gretsch B&D Serenader from the B&D Serenader made by The Bacon Banjo Co. of Groton Conn mostly during the 1930's.  Gretsch acquired the Bacon Banjo Co in 1940 and made Bacon and B&D branded banjos for approx 20 years (not made during WWII years).

A Bacon Banjo Co. Serenader from the 1930's is linked.

This may sound corny (and it is) but look at the curleycue from the "R" in "Serenader" on the linked Bacon Groton B&D Serenader.  It's a swoosh.

Look at the Gretsch B&D "R" in "Serenader" and you'll see that it's clipped.  That's just the way the Gretsch's were.

This is a quick distinguishing tell that I use and advocate for people not familiar with the differences between the Gretsch B&D Serenaders and the Bacon Groton ones.  If you put a Bacon Groton Serenader next to a Gretsch Serenader you will see other differences as Gretsch quality was inferior to that of the Bacon Groton serenaders but the curleycue always works for me at a glance.

The Old Timer - Posted - 01/18/2018:  06:39:43

Beezaboy, I've never had much interest in B&Ds, but I read threads like this to discover advice like yours! It's funny, I can see that kind of stuff instantly on a Gibson.

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 01/18/2018:  07:20:21

Thank you all. This is great information. 32873 is what the owner told me he found. Trying to get a picture.