Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  07:27:43

Hi All, I currently own an Epiphone MB-200 and been thinking about stepping up a bit. So here's a few ads I see locally, help me getting an idea what might be worth it as a step up.

Deering Goodtime Special Resonator kijiji.ca/v-guitar/city-of-tor...311410950

Washburn B-23 kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...310121856

Washburn B-16 Deluxe Banjo (late 80,s) kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...320298656

Gold Tone BG250 kijiji.ca/v-guitar/markham-yor...307863738 

EDIT: Another Gold Tone kijiji.ca/v-guitar/mississauga...318774054

Thanks, much appreciated,

Yury

Edited by - Yury on 12/14/2017 07:34:04

BigFiveChord - Posted - 12/14/2017:  07:41:19

Get something with a tone ring. I have no idea what the market is like in Canada, but the B-16 and especially the BG250 (looks like it's actually a BG250F?) look good!

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  07:46:08

Thanks!

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/14/2017:  08:22:17

I guess your budget is around 1000 bucks.

For that you can definitely get a decent banjo with a tone ring, probably an Asian Import. The Gold Tones generally get good marks around here, as does Recording King. RK-35/36 (new or used) RK-80/75 (used) should all be attainable for your budget depending on new vs used.

I don’t know about the washburns, but I can tell you that the goodtime special is an underwhelming banjo for the money. I would not even consider it with your budget.

I know there is Fender Artist in the classifieds for about 1100 right now. That is a great price for a highly regarded banjo.

Good luck!

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  08:31:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlyinEagle

I guess your budget is around 1000 bucks.



For that you can definitely get a decent banjo with a tone ring, probably an Asian Import. The Gold Tones generally get good marks around here, as does Recording King. RK-35/36 (new or used) RK-80/75 (used) should all be attainable for your budget depending on new vs used.



I don’t know about the washburns, but I can tell you that the goodtime special is an underwhelming banjo for the money. I would not even consider it with your budget.



I know there is Fender Artist in the classifieds for about 1100 right now. That is a great price for a highly regarded banjo.



Good luck!

---

1000$ Canadian, not the same as 1000$ US :D 

800 CAD for the Gold Tone looks like a good price point for me. They go for over a 1000 CAD new before tax over here.

Banjo Lefty - Posted - 12/14/2017:  09:08:46

You live in Toronto, so get yourself down to the 12th Fret, a music store specializing in banjos. You can try out a number of them and see what you like.

Mooooo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  09:44:57

Keep saving until you at least double what you have now and get a really good used banjo...buying a slightly better not so great banjo isn't going to help you any. Good luck whatever you decide, you may find a diamond in a pile of poop.

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  09:55:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mooooo

Keep saving until you at least double what you have now and get a really good used banjo...buying a slightly better not so great banjo isn't going to help you any. Good luck whatever you decide, you may find a diamond in a pile of poop.

---

Well, that's ts a part of why I opened this topic. If these choices are only slightly better than my MB-200 then it makes no sense.

What brands/models should I be looking for?

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  10:01:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjo Lefty

You live in Toronto, so get yourself down to the 12th Fret, a music store specializing in banjos. You can try out a number of them and see what you like.

---

Actually yes. I certainly should. Thanks. 

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 12/14/2017:  10:07:39

Although I've never played one, I have seen vids of banjos in the RK series that sounding killer - and reasonably priced! However, there is no substitute for sitting in a room full of banjos and seeing which one talks to you...

thisoldman - Posted - 12/14/2017:  10:30:30

I'm cheap, so all of those banjos in the original post most seem to be overpriced for used banjos, some a good bit overpriced. The Gold Tone BG250 looks a lot like a BG250F (F for flange) which go for about $1300CN new here in the US, so if I had to choose it would be that one. It's specs are similar to a GT OB250 and if it plays and sounds like mine does, you will be happy. $800CN comes out to a bit over $600US so this seems to be the best value for your money. Good luck with your hunt.

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  10:37:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurence Diehl

Although I've never played one, I have seen vids of banjos in the RK series that sounding killer - and reasonably priced! However, there is no substitute for sitting in a room full of banjos and seeing which one talks to you...

---

Planning to do just that as soon as I can a drive dow to the store.

Mooooo - Posted - 12/14/2017:  11:20:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yury

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mooooo

Keep saving until you at least double what you have now and get a really good used banjo...buying a slightly better not so great banjo isn't going to help you any. Good luck whatever you decide, you may find a diamond in a pile of poop.

---

Well, that's ts a part of why I opened this topic. If these choices are only slightly better than my MB-200 then it makes no sense.

What brands/models should I be looking for?

---

I hesitate to tell you to buy this or that banjo, there are lots of great ones out there, you  have posted this in the forum that has dealt with this exact same question thousands of times. Do a little reading and find out for yourself. I agree that the best way to find a banjo is to try out as many as possible

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/14/2017:  12:04:53

The Gold Tone BG 250 (which I agree looks like a BG250F with a one-piece flange) is much more than a minor step up from an Epiphone MB200, which is an aluminum rimmed bottlecap.  For many players, a BG250F is all they'll ever need.  $800 Canadian sounds like decent price for a used one.  The Washburns would be runners up.  Do not get the Goodtime or the Gold Tone Cripple Creek.

I agree that used Recording King RK35, 36, 80 or 75  would be better than the Gold Tone BG250F, but I don't know Canadian prices or availabilities.

Good luck.

stephen100 - Posted - 12/14/2017:  12:11:01

go and try out different ones see what one fits you, it took me 2 years to find an upgrade.

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  12:28:16

I looked at 12 Fret's inventory and there is not much in my range so probably going there is not a priority given their inconvenient location. 

Edited by - Yury on 12/14/2017 12:29:35

RCraft - Posted - 12/14/2017:  16:26:50

How patient are you? The used banjo market here (I'm also in Southern Ontario) is pretty slow compared to parts of the US so good instruments don't pop up all that often. I check the Ontario Kiji listings pretty much daily, even though I'm not in the market. This year there was a minty looking RK-75 for $1400. Someone also had a Sullivan Festival for either $1300 or $1600 (I can't remember). Both of those were awesome deals when you consider exchange rates and lack of sales tax for private purchases. In the lower bracket, someone recently sold a nice looking Fender Leo for $300. They usually go for around $500 and are a huge upgrade from what you have. They seem to pop up every few months.

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:19:40

Thanks everyone. I will keep updating this topic as things pop up.

Yury - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:41:31

Washburn B-23 MYSTIC DL
kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...p_android

Price: $ 900

thisoldman - Posted - 12/14/2017:  18:47:24

If you can get a Fender Leo in very good shape at or less than $500 CAD, you should take a look. A bit of an upgrade from what you have now. Not in the same league as the RK banjos mentioned or the GT BG250F, but well made banjos. With a multi-ply rim and a pot metal tone ring, it won't give you the breadth and depth of sound the RK's or GT will, a well set up Leo will play easily and will still sound good up and down the neck.

gtani7 - Posted - 12/14/2017:  21:40:15

banjohangout.org/classified/66919

I searched ON and QC, kind of slim pickings for resonators (I live pretty close to BC so check that from time to time). I've played some of the Gretsch Broadcaster models, I think they come from the same factory as Gold Tone, Washburn etc. Properly setup the upper models are pretty decent for the money. I recommend the RK R-35 and gold tone ob-350. Heavy. Flange and tonering each about 1.4 kg

Yury - Posted - 12/15/2017:  18:28:03

What the heck might that be...


Steel reinforced neck banjo ,
kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...p_android

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/15/2017:  19:27:44

Aluminum rimmed absolute beginner's instrument. Probably 1970s.  Possibly Japanese.  Could be American from 60s, but I don't know if this type of banjo was made in the U.S. before entry-level manufacture went overseas.

Back in the '60s and '70s, it was pretty common to see "Steel Reinforced Neck" on what would in other cases be the truss rod cover.  It was a way for manufacturers to tell the purchaser that their inexpensive instrument had at least some structural integrity.  I don't believe you ever saw this label on a higher quality instrument, where it was assumed there was either a steel reinforced neck, or an adjustable truss rod.

thisoldman - Posted - 12/15/2017:  19:38:28

Agree with Ken. I have a 70's open back tenor with that "steel reinforced neck". Worth about $60 -70 today. That one would be a "downgrade" from your current banjo. If I were to consider an offer on that banjo, which I wouldn't, probably $100.

pickin_fool - Posted - 12/15/2017:  23:22:11

if we lived closer i'd let you try my ob-250...I swear by goldtone

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  06:15:04

Yeah a bit of a drive to Thunder Bay :)

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  06:41:04

I think its a Washburn...anybody can tell more from the pics?



Please view this ad:

BANJO,
kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...p_android

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  06:42:42

Also what about this Fender?



Please view this ad:

Fender banjo ,
kijiji.ca/v-guitar/city-of-tor...p_android

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  07:20:52

Answering my own question. That was a Washburn b8 which is entry-level.

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/16/2017:  08:35:06

Oh my goodnees.

You don't need to know the makes or models of any of these. You can tell simply by looking at them that they're lesser instruments than you Goodtime.

If you really want to upgrade to a bluegrass banjo, then you want an instrument with:

• solid wood rim - preferably 3-ply, but well-made multi-ply is acceptable


• full weight, bell metal (bronze alloy or brass), Mastertone style tone ring


• flange: preferably prewar style 1-piece flange though a 2-piece, tube-and-plate, flange is acceptable


• planetary style tuning pegs

If you see guitar style tuners, a metal rim and no flange, the banjo is no better -- and is probably worse -- than your Goodtime.

Though they have flange plates, most banjos with shoes will not be a meaningful upgrade from your Goodtime. The Deering Eagle II is a shoe banjo that is a serious professional instrument, a significant upgrade from the Goodtime, and probably outside your budget.

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  08:52:06

I don't have a Goodtime. I have an Epiphone MB-200.

I am still getting a hang of all these aspects, so going over specific models is helping. Especially when ads lack details or pictures don't show everything well enough. 

Edited by - Yury on 12/16/2017 09:05:40

bluenote23 - Posted - 12/16/2017:  09:33:20

Despite Ken thinking you had a slightly better banjo than you do have, I would take everything he said to heart. Do a little study so you can recognize visually the features he mentions.

Take your time. This will probably be a pretty long term project. If your town is like mine, with no real banjo tradition, then 99.9% of the banjos you see listed on Kijiji under $1200 are probably going to be at best a sideways move.

Keep you eye on the Marketplace here. You can filter out the results for Canada only or even just Ontario.
Study up and good luck.

Yury - Posted - 12/16/2017:  10:31:53

So far I feel that a Gold Tone BG250 seems like a reasonable bet. There is a couple for sale so it is not hopeless.
I do feel like upgrading reasonably soon as I am becoming somewhat painfully aware of the limitations of my MB-200. Even though I am within my first year I feel I might have overgrown it. These Gold Tones do seem to have some market so in the future I might break close to even if I decide to upgrade again.
The bottom line is that I feel I will progress better with a better instrument.

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/16/2017:  10:46:38

My mistake.

Got this confused with another discussion, either here or Facebook.

I went back to the opening message. I see that several of us said the Gold Tone BG250 (F?) was clearly an upgrade from what you own.  Seeing as that's a real bluegrass banjo with 3-ply wood rim, bell metal tone ring and one-piece flange, then everything else I said in my message still applies. 

The options you asked about at the outset included Mastertone-style bluegrass banjos (the BG250-F and a Washburn 16 or 23).   If you're not getting the Gold Tone BG250-F as some of us recommended, then for a meaningful upgrade from your beginner instrument you should still be looking at banjos with the features I listed above.  The Gold Tone and Washburn have those.  The other banjos don't.

Price will be another big clue. A bluegrass banjo with the right features is probably not going to cost any less than that Gold Tone.

Yury - Posted - 12/17/2017:  05:47:04

reverb.com/item/1077761-record...r15-banjo

GrahamHawker - Posted - 12/17/2017:  07:11:57

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yury

reverb.com/item/1077761-record...r15-banjo

---

A basic banjo with a multiply rim and brass hoop tone ring. An upgrade from what you have but not in the same league as the other banjos you have been looking at.

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/17/2017:  10:59:09

Yury: Perhaps you could tell us exactly what it is you're looking for in a new banjo.

Or perhaps tell us the amount you're really most comfortable spending.

The RK-15 you've shown us is, as Graham says, better than your Epi MB200, but less banjo than a Gold Tone BG250 or BG250F.  Those give you a 3-ply maple rim, Mastertone style tone ring and plantary tuners.

At under $400 US shipped ($508 Canadian), it's a good buy.  Still has guitar tuners, but you could upgrade those for not much money later on.

If $500 or so Canadian is all you want to spend, then get this banjo.  If you can go higher, then get the BG250F you showed us, before someone else gets it.

heavy5 - Posted - 12/17/2017:  11:58:48

I have quite a few high end banjos & also have one of these ;
banjohangout.org/classified/66494
In my opinion , they are a real sleeper ---super sounding well made --predecessor to the Gold Star .
Also would 2nd the mention of an early Fender Artist

Note , I have no knowledge of the Saga seller

Yury - Posted - 12/17/2017:  12:26:36

quotte:

---

Originally posted by Old Hickory

Yury: Perhaps you could tell us exactly what it is you're looking for in a new banjo.

Or perhaps tell us the amount you're really most comfortable spending.

The RK-15 you've shown us is, as Graham says, better than your Epi MB200, but less banjo than a Gold Tone BG250 or BG250F.  Those give you a 3-ply maple rim, Mastertone style tone ring and plantary tuners.

At under $400 US shipped ($508 Canadian), it's a good buy.  Still has guitar tuners, but you could upgrade those for not much money later on.

If $500 or so Canadian is all you want to spend, then get this banjo.  If you can go higher, then get the BG250F you showed us, before someone else gets it.

---

I am targeting 800$ CAD and Gold Tone BG250 would be probably fine. I was just curious about that RK. I knew it was too cheap to be in the same league as BG250 bit was just generally curious because of the brand.

Old Hickory - Posted - 12/17/2017:  16:49:01

Got it.

RK's serious bluegrass banjos -- that they still make -- start at the RK-R35. It costs $900 US ($1159 Canadian) new. Used, they go as low as $600 ($773 Canadian). Occasionally less.

The RK-35 would be feature-for-feature competitive with the Gold Tone BG-250F -- but most folks on the Hangout would choose the RK over the Gold Tone.

There are some RK models no longer made that would be worthy contenders should you come across one: RK-30BG (bluegrass machine) that had a 2-piece flange and tone ring; RK-R25 that had a 2-piece flange and no tone ring -- a "woody" with the head bearing on the wood rim. And the RK-R50 with a 1-piece flange and no tone ring. These woody models sounded amazing. It was hard to believe they didn't have tone rings.

Good luck.

Yury - Posted - 12/19/2017:  05:52:04

5 string Banjo: Washburn B-23 MYSTIC DL,
kijiji.ca/v-string-instrument/...p_android

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/19/2017:  06:23:02

I’m not sure why you don’t just save up a couple hundred more CAD more and get an RK35.



Listen to Old Hickory, he knows what he is talking about. They retail for less than 8 or 9 hundred USD brand spankin new. You can find one used within your current budget if you are patient. You won’t need another banjo for a long time.



Going from a crappy beginner banjo to a somewhat less crappy beginner banjo will not help you, and in fact, only serve to delay the time until you get a true upgrade.

Edited by - FlyinEagle on 12/19/2017 06:23:54

Yury - Posted - 12/19/2017:  06:38:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlyinEagle

I’m not sure why you don’t just save up a couple hundred more CAD more and get an RK35.



Listen to Old Hickory, he knows what he is talking about. They retail for less than 8 or 9 hundred USD brand spankin new. You can find one used within your current budget if you are patient. You won’t need another banjo for a long time.



Going from a crappy beginner banjo to a somewhat less crappy beginner banjo will not help you, and in fact, only serve to delay the time until you get a true upgrade.

See that's where I get confused. Some say these Gold Tones and Washburns are a great upgrade and here you say that they are "less crappy beginner" banjos. If this is indeed the case I might just go another way. I tried an open-back Epiphone MB-100 over the weekend. It's quite cheap, but you know what, I liked it quite a bit. Certainly has none of the nasty metallic twang of MB-200. Perhaps, I should get it for now and put getting an RK to on a back burner.

Edited by - Yury on 12/19/2017 06:39:01

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/19/2017:  06:56:07

 

See that's where I get confused. Some say these Gold Tones and Washburns are a great upgrade and here you say that they are "less crappy beginner" banjos. If this is indeed the case I might just go another way. I tried an open-back Epiphone MB-100 over the weekend. It's quite cheap, but you know what, I liked it quite a bit. Certainly has none of the nasty metallic twang of MB-200. Perhaps, I should get it for now and put getting an RK to on a back burner.

---

The metallic twang in your epiphone is because of the aluminum pot.  Banjos with thin wooden rims with brackets and shoes are a less metallic sounding, but still lack the full and complex sound produced by a 3 ply full thickness rim with a tone ring.

There are other things at play though, like the fit and finish of the banjo…how GOOD the neck of a quality banjo feels in your hands.  The robustness of the sound up and down the neck…the variability in tone a good banjo provides. 

You don’t have to get an RK, but it is the lowest cost banjo that gives you these things. 

Your budget is very close to affording all of that.

Edited by - FlyinEagle on 12/19/2017 06:58:20

Yury - Posted - 12/19/2017:  06:56:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlyinEagle

I’m not sure why you don’t just save up a couple hundred more CAD more and get an RK35.



Listen to Old Hickory, he knows what he is talking about. They retail for less than 8 or 9 hundred USD brand spankin new. You can find one used within your current budget if you are patient. You won’t need another banjo for a long time.



Going from a crappy beginner banjo to a somewhat less crappy beginner banjo will not help you, and in fact, only serve to delay the time until you get a true upgrade.

---

Is this the RK you are referring to?

ebay.ca/itm/Recording-King-RK-...wOA1aHRPl

Yury - Posted - 12/19/2017:  06:59:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlyinEagle

 

See that's where I get confused. Some say these Gold Tones and Washburns are a great upgrade and here you say that they are "less crappy beginner" banjos. If this is indeed the case I might just go another way. I tried an open-back Epiphone MB-100 over the weekend. It's quite cheap, but you know what, I liked it quite a bit. Certainly has none of the nasty metallic twang of MB-200. Perhaps, I should get it for now and put getting an RK to on a back burner.

---

The metallic twang in your epiphone is because of the aluminum pot.  Banjos with thin wooden rims with brackets and shoes are a less metallic sounding, but still lack the full and complex sound produced by a 3 ply full thickness rim with a tone ring.

 

There are other things at play though, like the fit and finish of the banjo…how GOOD the neck of a quality banjo feels in your hands.  The robustness of the sound up and down the neck…the variability in tone a good banjo provides. 

 

You don’t have to get an RK, but it is the lowest cost banjo that gives you these things. 

 

You’re budget is very close to affording all of that.

---

I understand what you are saying, just a bit bummed out by contradictory advice in this thread. That's ok, it's still helpful. Thanks.

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/19/2017:  07:14:07

 

---

Is this the RK you are referring to?

ebay.ca/itm/Recording-King-RK-...wOA1aHRPl

---

Yes. 

Yury - Posted - 12/19/2017:  07:20:58

Now, perhaps the most important question.
Will such an upgrade help me learn faster?

FlyinEagle - Posted - 12/19/2017:  07:33:05

 

---

I understand what you are saying, just a bit bummed out by contradictory advice in this thread. That's ok, it's still helpful. Thanks.

---

The advice boils down to: Full thickness rim with tone ring and flange > Thin rim with bracket and shoe > Alum bottle cap rim.

There is nothing wrong with any of the advice given, but it is up to you to wade through it and decide what best applies to your own situation…there can be many shades of grey in internet advice.

MY advice would be to find a shop somewhere that has banjos that you can play multiple banjos of various quality.  Some of the things mentioned in this thread will become very obvious to you if you do that.

I know that you are not exactly in Nashville, but Toronto is a big city.  There has to be a shop somewhere with a few banjos laying around you can try out.