1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/08/2017:  21:51:22

i heard through the grapevine that JD acquired granada # 1 that is from the 9584 batch ,,, is this for real?

terry m

eljimb0 - Posted - 04/09/2017:  03:01:01

If anyone in the world should have that banjo ...it is JD.

Stevespickn - Posted - 04/09/2017:  04:05:48

Years ago he had a Granada. That's where the Goldstar Crowe model came from in 1981.

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/09/2017:  04:45:17

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stevespickn

 

Years ago he had a Granada. That's where the Goldstar Crowe model came from in 1981.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the  one i am   refering to is one he just got and used to be in greensboro for years and yrears

       terry m

rupickin5 - Posted - 04/09/2017:  04:59:11

yes...

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/09/2017:  05:21:17

It would seem so Terry. He traded his famous 75 in on it. Don Wright was done there a few weeks ago and played the 75.

lightgauge - Posted - 04/09/2017:  05:35:40

That is the one at Lowe Vintage instruments. I looked back at my pics to make sure I remembered.  I was there again, a few months ago and they had finally put a price on it, so glad to hear it went to a highly appropriate home. Now Sonny, Earl, and J.D. all have played and owned 9584 litter mates. Quite the club!!

RB3WREATH - Posted - 04/09/2017:  06:02:44

Is the 75 for sale and if so how much?

Joe

Edited by - RB3WREATH on 04/09/2017 06:02:56

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/09/2017:  07:16:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB3WREATH

 

Is the 75 for sale and if so how much?

 

Joe

---

I would expect it is for sale but Don didn't reveal any price. He said they had it in a glass case but they did let Don pick it.

Stevespickn - Posted - 04/09/2017:  07:56:55

JD sold the "Banger" a while back to a hangout member.

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/09/2017:  10:22:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stevespickn

 

JD sold the "Banger" a while back to a hangout member.

 

---

We're not talking about "Banger" but the style 75 that JD got from Bob Rodgers many years ago. It's been his main axe for the last 25 years or so.

Stevespickn - Posted - 04/09/2017:  12:15:54

quote: i know. Just making comment.

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Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stevespickn

 

JD sold the "Banger" a while back to a hangout member.

 

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We're not talking about "Banger" but the style 75 that JD got from Bob Rodgers many years ago. It's been his main axe for the last 25 years or so.

---

Culloden - Posted - 04/09/2017:  13:29:25

Then what model is the Banger?

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/09/2017:  14:53:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Culloden

 

Then what model is the Banger?

---

It was a PB-3 originally,

gospelman97 - Posted - 04/10/2017:  05:34:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB3WREATH

 

Is the 75 for sale and if so how much?

 

Joe

---

Not currently for sale.

BanjoLink - Posted - 04/10/2017:  14:05:52

Glad JD got it.  I didn't know that he was actively seeking that kind of stuff now!  I talked to him for a good while at the Banjothon this year, but we only talked about cars and guns.  I figured he had been talked banjos all weekend and probably would like to talk about something else.  I think both of us enjoyed talking about another subject.

Edited by - BanjoLink on 04/10/2017 14:06:25

Bob Rodgers - Posted - 04/10/2017:  18:30:57

There is quite a story between 9584-1 and Crowe. Goes back many years. (Someone else can tell the story) I have heard the story from Crowe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/11/2017:  06:59:31

last time i played -1   it was sounding pretty dang good,, it had just had a good set up done on it  so everything had not settled in on it yet,,, but it was poppin pretty good.....  need to ride down to lowes and see if i can drag a pick on that 75,,,,  

terry m

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/11/2017:  07:01:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Rodgers

 

There is quite a story between 9584-1 and Crowe. Goes back many years. (Someone else can tell the story) I have heard the story from Crowe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

---

is that the one where a deck of cards were involved ?

terry m

Bob Rodgers - Posted - 04/11/2017:  07:26:06

banjohangout.org/global/ckedit.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-1px;-webkit-border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px;border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵

quote

:NEVER HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT A DECK OF CARDS,,WHO KNOWS,,,,

---

Originally posted by 1935tb-11

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Rodgers

 

There is quite a story between 9584-1 and Crowe. Goes back many years. (Someone else can tell the story) I have heard the story from Crowe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

---

is that the one where a deck of cards were involved ?

 

 

 

terry m

---

jwold - Posted - 04/11/2017:  11:08:07

So for those of us not "in the know" how about sharing the story?

Bob Rodgers - Posted - 04/11/2017:  13:08:30

quote: Not trying to be rude, Someone else can tell the story. Our personal conversations stay between us,,,,,Sorry

---

Originally posted by jwold

 

So for those of us not "in the know" how about sharing the story?

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southerndrifter - Posted - 04/11/2017:  18:50:11

9584-1 is a very good banjo and historically significant, but I guess everybody knows that it is a conversion?

rcc56 - Posted - 04/11/2017:  20:04:01

From what I was told about 9584-1 when it was first quietly offered for sale a few years ago, it is the Clay Everhart banjo.  There is a picture of Clay Everhart playing it on the Steve Or Jim [Huber Banjos] member homepage that was taken in '30s or '40s.  It was a five string then.

Edited by - rcc56 on 04/11/2017 20:05:11

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/11/2017:  20:08:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by rcc56

 

From what I was told about 9584-1 when it was first quietly offered for sale a few years ago, it is the Clay Everhart banjo.  There is a picture of Clay Everhart playing it on the Steve Or Jim [Huber Banjos] member homepage that was taken in '30s or '40s.  It was a five string then.

---

Yes, it's always been a 5-string, but it originally left the factory as an archtop.......at least, the photo evidence indicates that!

rcc56 - Posted - 04/11/2017:  20:23:25

Please refer me to the photo of it as an archtop.  The history of this particular banjo is of interest to me for personal reasons.

Edited by - rcc56 on 04/11/2017 20:25:18

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/11/2017:  20:26:08

went by and seen dave today,,, he was doing pretty good ,, we talked for a long while about alot of stuff,, but when it boiled to the final result he was very glad JD ended up with the banjo.  he said he introduced JD to the banjo back in the 70s when they used to pick around the corner from the store back in the days.

terry m 

jfb - Posted - 04/12/2017:  09:17:32

The banjo used to be only about four miles away from me when Dean Clawson (sic) owned it.  As I recall (not so accurate these days ) he acquired it from Florida from a trader named Yokley.  I really can't remember the details  how it went from Everhart to Yokley, but thats how I remember the history of it.  The history is rather interesting as others have mentioned above.  Me personally, I would rather have the 75, but thats just me.  Congratulations to the new owner.

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/12/2017:  15:50:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by jfb

 

The banjo used to be only about four miles away from me when Dean Clawson (sic) owned it.  As I recall (not so accurate these days ) he acquired it from Florida from a trader named Yokley.  I really can't remember the details  how it went from Everhart to Yokley, but thats how I remember the history of it.  The history is rather interesting as others have mentioned above.  Me personally, I would rather have the 75, but thats just me.  Congratulations to the new owner.

---

i haven't played the 75 but the granada sounded pretty dang good with the fresh set up a while back......  but dave still has one over there i been trying to get for 20 years ,,, now i don't  know if i can swing it..... but i put my 2 cents in yesterday while we were on the subject,,,,,,but i have a good idea who is going to get it,,, which i am ok with too.

terry m  

Robby Boone - Posted - 04/12/2017:  16:13:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

9584-1 is a very good banjo and historically significant, but I guess everybody knows that it is a conversion?

---

No......I don't guess I knew this was a conversion. Who converted it and when? Is there documentation of this or is this an assumption on someones part? I "assumed" that the five banjos on this lot were all flathead RB's. Wow, you learn something everyday......

Robby

rcc56 - Posted - 04/12/2017:  16:26:02

If southerndrifter is referring to a clipped label as evidence of it being an archtop conversion, it is generally accepted that all known banjos from this batch, including the Scruggs and the Sonny Osborne, left the factory with clipped labels.

Ebanjo - Posted - 04/12/2017:  17:29:44

Yes Bob, And doesn't that mean the shells were originally intended for arch tops, but were turned for flat heads later ? And Lynwood, J.D. did play the -75 a lot, but played his two -3's about as much. He told me he rotated them a year at a time (play one for a year, and then play the other, etc.). I remember the first time I saw 9584-1. It was at Dean Clawson's shop around October of 1978. I remember being disappointed because the head on it was broke and it wasn't playable. I did get to play it later when Dave Osborne owned it. It's a fine banjo.
Eric Ellis

TOMCAT - Posted - 04/12/2017:  18:25:12

Anyone got any pics of it?

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/12/2017:  18:57:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robby Boone

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

9584-1 is a very good banjo and historically significant, but I guess everybody knows that it is a conversion?

---

No......I don't guess I knew this was a conversion. Who converted it and when? Is there documentation of this or is this an assumption on someones part? I "assumed" that the five banjos on this lot were all flathead RB's. Wow, you learn something everyday......

Robby

---

There is a picture of the banjo and it was unmistakeably an archtop! The conversion was done by Gibson, presumably still during the "prewar" period. I didn't own the picture, I just saw it. I'm still looking for it and I'll post it if I find it.

Bob Rodgers - Posted - 04/12/2017:  19:40:51

banjohangout.org/global/ckedit.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-1px;-webkit-border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px;border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵

quote

:Robby, I sent you a link to the Clay Everheart banjo. I can,t tell nothing from blowing up the picture,,,I would not want to be the one who told Crowe the banjo left the factory as a A T. You Could see fire coming out both eyes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I Know The Man Like The Back Of My Hand,,,,,,,,,,,

---

Originally posted by Robby Boone

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

9584-1 is a very good banjo and historically significant, but I guess everybody knows that it is a conversion?

---

No......I don't guess I knew this was a conversion. Who converted it and when? Is there documentation of this or is this an assumption on someones part? I "assumed" that the five banjos on this lot were all flathead RB's. Wow, you learn something everyday......

Robby

---

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/13/2017:  01:45:43

is this the photo you are talking about.... i can't tell in this one.  it looks like a flathead here

dave was telling me that this banjo and an RB-3 that earl ordered came into a hardware store or barber shop

down that way somewhere in late 1934,,, i just wonder if it wasn;t the scruggs/reno 3  ?

terry m

Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 04/13/2017 02:27:37

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/13/2017:  04:05:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1935tb-11

 

is this the photo you are talking about.... i can't tell in this one.  it looks like a flathead here

dave was telling me that this banjo and an RB-3 that earl ordered came into a hardware store or barber shop

down that way somewhere in late 1934,,, i just wonder if it wasn;t the scruggs/reno 3  ?

 

 

 

terry m

---

No Terry, that's not the photo. The one I'm talking about is just the gentleman by himself. I think the barbershop story is the one about 9584-3 and 9584-5 being ordered on the same day and coming in to the barbershop on the same day. The RB-3 was sent back to Gibson and 9584-3 replaced it. The barbershop was in Bladenboro, NC. The banjos were shipped by train.

mdenny4 - Posted - 04/13/2017:  10:13:48

Where's this photo of 9584-1 as an archtop?

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/13/2017:  16:20:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1935tb-11

 

is this the photo you are talking about.... i can't tell in this one.  it looks like a flathead here

dave was telling me that this banjo and an RB-3 that earl ordered came into a hardware store or barber shop

down that way somewhere in late 1934,,, i just wonder if it wasn;t the scruggs/reno 3  ?

 

 

 

terry m

---

No Terry, that's not the photo. The one I'm talking about is just the gentleman by himself. I think the barbershop story is the one about 9584-3 and 9584-5 being ordered on the same day and coming in to the barbershop on the same day. The RB-3 was sent back to Gibson and 9584-3 replaced it. The barbershop was in Bladenboro, NC. The banjos were shipped by train.

---

pretty cool though.... go get your ears lowered and order a  granada and never get up !!!!

terry m

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/13/2017:  17:21:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by mdenny4

 

Where's this photo of 9584-1 as an archtop?

 

 

 

---

I'm trying to get a copy of it now. If I can get a copy, I'll share it with everybody.

I don't see how being a conversion diminishes it's value any. The change was made by Gibson at the Gibson factory. It was made during the prewar years........somewhere around 1937. An original prewar Gibson flathead ring was used. And this wouldn't be the first example of a prewar archtop being converted to a flathead by Gibson during the prewar years. The photo was very clear and there was no mistake.....

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/13/2017:  18:37:53

many were converted after the initial build because the flathead was starting to gain popularity ,,,, thats the only reason i can come up with.

somebody saw or heard somebody else who had a flathead and liked it better and sent it back to be converted,,,, aka cut lables ?

terry m

TOMCAT - Posted - 04/13/2017:  18:40:44

According to YouTube this is it........Is it?

1935tb-11 - Posted - 04/13/2017:  18:59:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by TOMCAT



According to YouTube this is it........Is it?

---

yeah thats it,,,,,   the video doesn't do it justice as far as how it sounds when you are playing it...

terry m

TOMCAT - Posted - 04/13/2017:  19:30:18

The room sounds echoish, but the banjo sounds good

RB3WREATH - Posted - 04/14/2017:  03:25:32

I played this banjo at Banjothon this year. It is a great banjo and I am glad JD has it. There is an important piece of information that is often overlooked. The labels were placed on the rim after the tonering's were installed. My 75 and Reno's 75 display the label on the rim and on the tonering. These water decals do not adhere to metal well at all and if there is any rubbing on the ring where the label is it would rub off. I also included a photo of my label with some of it on the ring. If they placed it just a bit higher it would have much more of the label at risk.

Here is Earls rim and I don't think his was converted and the photo in question , can anyone see the serial number of the banjo in the photo? If not all bets are off that this could be the same banjo.

Edited by - RB3WREATH on 04/14/2017 03:28:05

RB75

lightgauge - Posted - 04/14/2017:  05:04:58

The label in 9584-1 is near the height of your second pic, with the top of the letters MAS at the joint of ring/rim. I know nothing of it's history, but held it, played it, and took some photos when the nice people at Lowe Vintage shared it. 

southerndrifter - Posted - 04/14/2017:  06:30:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB3WREATH

 

I played this banjo at Banjothon this year. It is a great banjo and I am glad JD has it. There is an important piece of information that is often overlooked. The labels were placed on the rim after the tonering's were installed. My 75 and Reno's 75 display the label on the rim and on the tonering. These water decals do not adhere to metal well at all and if there is any rubbing on the ring where the label is it would rub off. I also included a photo of my label with some of it on the ring. If they placed it just a bit higher it would have much more of the label at risk.

Here is Earls rim and I don't think his was converted and the photo in question , can anyone see the serial number of the banjo in the photo? If not all bets are off that this could be the same banjo.

 

 

---

That may or may not be the case.......at least, not in every instance. And keep in mind, if the rim was fitted with an arch top ring, the label wouldn't come up to the ring (I don't think). Of course, we know what the labels look like once the rim is turned to accept the flat head ring.

RB3WREATH - Posted - 04/14/2017:  06:55:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by southerndrifter

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB3WREATH

 

I played this banjo at Banjothon this year. It is a great banjo and I am glad JD has it. There is an important piece of information that is often overlooked. The labels were placed on the rim after the tonering's were installed. My 75 and Reno's 75 display the label on the rim and on the tonering. These water decals do not adhere to metal well at all and if there is any rubbing on the ring where the label is it would rub off. I also included a photo of my label with some of it on the ring. If they placed it just a bit higher it would have much more of the label at risk.

Here is Earls rim and I don't think his was converted and the photo in question , can anyone see the serial number of the banjo in the photo? If not all bets are off that this could be the same banjo.

 

 

---

That may or may not be the case.......at least, not in every instance. And keep in mind, if the rim was fitted with an arch top ring, the label wouldn't come up to the ring (I don't think). Of course, we know what the labels look like once the rim is turned to accept the flat head ring.

---

Lynwood,

A cut rim looks just like Earl's rim and Sonny's rim but these were not cut.If you worked in a factory where you were putting labels on every day and you placed them 1/2" from the bottom of the  an archtop rim  and when someone slipped in a few flathead rims you would find yourself with the label overriding the tonering when you were keeping your label 1/2" from the bottom. There water decals crack and split if you try to move them as we all know from model making as kids. This would be a real life process to identify and change your workers habits to keep quality under control. This is my feeling on many of the labels that look slightly cut and the banjo has a real pre war flathead ring in it. Don't get me wrong I know what a cut label looks like.

Joe

rcc56 - Posted - 04/14/2017:  20:40:25

Every banjo from this batch and the previous two batches that we have easily accessible pictures of has "slightly cut" labels. All three batches were flatheads.  See the pictures of the Butch Robbins and Sonny Osborne banjos in the Jim Mills book, and the pictures of PB-Granada 9582-3 on the earnestbanjo website.

I have never heard of any of these other banjos from these batches being characterized as "conversions." 

Edited by - rcc56 on 04/14/2017 20:54:03