iolson - Posted - 04/03/2017:  13:07:51

Hi,

I'm attempting to put a calfskin head on my Deering Goodtime. I'm having trouble with the tension hooks- many of them are not actually 'hooking' on the tension hoop, so they're sliding off or only somewhat attached. The hooks towards the neck are ok, but the ones towards the tailpiece especially are having trouble attaching. I've attached some pictures below (click on the square to open them). It doesn't feel or look like there's enough room for the hooks to 'hook' on, and I don't want to force it and damage the pot.

It's my first time attempting to put a skin head on, so I have a feeling I did something wrong somewhere, although I'd love to know if there's a way to fix this without taking everything off and starting over again.

Any suggestions? 

Edited by - iolson on 04/03/2017 13:25:57

Helix - Posted - 04/03/2017:  13:20:02

I have a small pair of channel loks which have soft felt jaws. Grab the hook with the pliers, loosen the nut, turn the hook even with the tension hoop and retighten.

My trouble was keeping it wet enough, so a spray bottle was a great fix for that.

deestexas - Posted - 04/03/2017:  14:01:53

Looks as if you have cut the excess skin off too soon and have pushed the tension ring too far onto the rim.   Here's a good how-to instruction from Stewart-MacDonald:  stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Reso...head.html

5strings3picks1banjo - Posted - 04/03/2017:  14:20:31

This is common on banjos designed for mylar heads. Sounds like your nearly there so try as Helix suggests and if that wont work you may have to start again.

If you cannot get it on correctly you need to evaluate where the problem lies. 

2 things that can create this is flesh hoops are larger than your flange and with the skin being doubled back through the hoop your hook angle is affected and they pop off tension hoop, so some people bend the hooks.

Skin is too think for the banjo. Extra soaking and rolling the skin can help this problem.

Modern banjos are built to very tight tolerances so making changes (as simple as a skin conversion should be) can be frustrating.  

5strings3picks1banjo - Posted - 04/03/2017:  14:22:38

You Neck fit can also be effected doing this.

rudy - Posted - 04/03/2017:  14:46:04

You're going to have to undertake a do-over in any case because there is no room left between the flesh hoop and the shoe to allow the head to be tightened.  The tension band should be above the level of the head before the hide is dried to allow the hook to grab the top lip.

Your photo shows the lack of clearance between the flesh hoop and the shoe:

In retrospect, The Goodtime isn't a great candidate for hide but I think it can be done.  That's not much help now, though.

A thin hide would be an advantage as you need enough clearance between the double layer of hide and the inside of the tension band for the hook to grab.  The bent hooks will generally not withstand near as much tension without the curled end straightening as opposed to a steel J hook in a notched tension band, so that's another disadvantage.  The Goodtime has fewer hooks than a lot of other open back banjos so it's more difficult to apply enough tension to get the head up to where many currently like to tension their heads.

Edited by - rudy on 04/03/2017 14:50:19

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 04/03/2017:  16:41:58

I totally agree with everything Rudy says, but most especially the part about a do-over. You've already pretty much run out of threading on the hooks, and any attempts at further tightening may result in breaking them. 

Parker135 - Posted - 04/03/2017:  19:40:46

John Balch for a thin goat skin head, either premounted or do it yourself if you want to try again. He provides flesh hoops also.

ClayTech - Posted - 04/03/2017:  20:24:26

Yep. You need to have the top of the tension hoop sitting above the head as the head dries. You just need 4 hooks to hold the hoop in place, pulling up on the edge of the head to get it good and tight while it's still wet. Once it's totally dry you add the other hooks and bring it up to tension. You may not have enough of the head left to be able to do it again. A pair of pliers may come in handy in this case.

5strings3picks1banjo - Posted - 04/04/2017:  04:17:02

Oh dear, one of your photos just opened for me. it looks very neat like you have the skill but very wrong looking at it. 

Listen to Rudy he knows his stuff. What would help protect against hooks putting a hole in the skin would be an old grooved tension hoop and hooks. But that is more cost and your neck may not refit at the fretboard 

iolson - Posted - 04/04/2017:  11:43:24

Thanks for your help, all. I ordered a thinner head and am going to try again. If I strike out again this time, I'll put the original back on.