Brice Alms - Posted - 12/24/2016:  20:45:14

I cant get my minstrel banjo tuned to g tuning,

i'm am tryin' to use a fender instrument tuner on it.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 12/24/2016:  21:54:26

What happens when you try to tune it?

What kind of strings are on it?

Without answers to these questions, it's pretty hard to give you advice.

Here' are some thoughts that may or may not apply to your particular situation:

If they are a heavier gauge nylon or Nylgut string, they won't want to be tuned that high, so tune them in the same intervals but in a lower key.

Also, nylon and especially Nylgut strings take a long time to stretch so they will keep going flat until they have stretched enough.

Brice Alms - Posted - 12/25/2016:  00:18:59

I actually got this banjo yesterday, so I do not know much on tuning them.

The strings are nylgut with 4th wound string, it is also a 27 inch scale banjo.

I also have another question, can use an electric tuner on a minstrel banjo.

Edited by - Brice Alms on 12/25/2016 00:26:34

dbrooks - Posted - 12/25/2016:  04:32:56

If it is a minstrel banjo like those made by Bell and others, it may have heavier guage nylon (or Nylgut) strings. Typically these are tuned lower, and that gives them their distinctive sound. The open G-like tuning would be dADF#A (key of D). The same open-G chord shapes and scales can be used. The equivalent double-C tuning is dGDGA (key of G). Yes you can use a digital tuner like a Snark.

David

bartmcneil - Posted - 12/25/2016:  05:39:43

An electronic tuner doesn't care what kind of instrument you are tuning. Normally it clips on the headstock. Also it reads the vibrations in the wood not the noise in the room so even in a noise-filled room it will hear only the vibrations in the wood of your instrument.

You can buy a tuner which doesn't attach to your instrument but reads the sound only.  Some people prefer this type but its disadvantage is that it can be thrown off by a noisy room or environment. If you play alone this one might be handy.

I have both types and I use whichever tuner has a good battery in it at the moment. 

Edited by - bartmcneil on 12/25/2016 05:47:03

Brice Alms - Posted - 12/25/2016:  08:01:05

also how do you tell if your nylgut string is close to its breaking point. I got my banjo tuned 2nd string-b 3rd string-g 4th string-d 5th-g, i was afraid to go any higher than c# on first string.

Dan Gellert - Posted - 12/25/2016:  08:09:20

If you're used to instruments with steel strings, you might not realize how much nylon (or gut or nylgut) strings STRETCH.  

If you are tuning one string at a time, by the time you've tuned the 5th one the 1st will be out of tune.  That is just the way it works.  You have to go through the process a bunch of times before the tuning is stable enough to even play through one tune.

You can hurry the process along a bit by stretching the strings out by hand-- tune the string, pull it away from the fingerboard about in the middle of its open length, tune it again, repeat....

You really should be tuning down to D as was already recommended.  dADF#A.  Another recommendation:  once you've got it in the neighborhood of the right pitch, ditch the tuner and learn to tune the banjo to itself by ear-- an absolutely essential part of learning to play a fretless IMO.

Edited by - Dan Gellert on 12/25/2016 08:11:15

hughstrawn - Posted - 12/25/2016:  14:43:25

Here are a couple resources for you regarding minstrel banjos.

Tim Twiss downloads (minstrel banjo tuning video etal) timtwiss.com/free-downloads.html

The Minstrel Banjo web site      minstrelbanjo.ning.com/

hugh

Tom Berghan - Posted - 12/25/2016:  18:26:46

Do you have calipers? If not you might consider buying a set as they are a VERY useful tool for musicians of stringed instruments. If you tell me the gauges of the strings, I can tell you what pitches to tune them to (the pitches the string maker intended) .. . But we need to know the gauges of the strings (the diameter of each string)

Tom Berghan - Posted - 12/25/2016:  18:31:47

Also, you may need to dress the friction pegs. Use white soap and chalk. The soap is to make turn smoothly. The chalk makes it grip. If you get too much of one or the other simply wipe it off.

John Gribble - Posted - 12/25/2016:  23:55:33

I think we need more information about the banjo. It may not be designed to play in G at all. If it is based on historic models, it ought to be tuned several frets low. My Bowlin with its heavy strings was meant to be tuned to a low D (dADF#A), same intervals as G tuning (gDGBD), but five frets low, or to A, C tuning five frets low. 

Tom Berghan - Posted - 12/26/2016:  09:22:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Gribble

 

I think we need more information about the banjo. It may not be designed to play in G at all. If it is based on historic models, it ought to be tuned several frets low. My Bowlin with its heavy strings was meant to be tuned to a low D (dADF#A), same intervals as G tuning (gDGBD), but five frets low, or to A, C tuning five frets low. 

---

Hi John,

There is nothing about a the design of a Bowlin banjo, or any other banjo, that determines the pitch.  It is solely a function of scale length (nut to bridge) and the diameter of each string.  Your Bowlin has a pretty short scale compared to the average of banjos made before about 1865.  The average is closer to 26 or 27 inches long.  However, one can find both shorter and often longer scales.  The Bowlin has a scale something like 24.5 inches.  

As an example, at 25 inches scale, if you wanted to tune the first string to D (like a modern banjo) then a nylon string with a diameter of about 0.022 will work well.  However if you try to tune that same string down to A (a fourth lower) then it will not have enough tension.  However if you changed the string to a nylon string with a diameter of 0.028 it will be fine at the lower pitch of A or even B . . . but a 0.028 will be far too tight if the player tries to tune it up to D.  The string might break . . . it will feel too tight and probably sound very strained.  And of course using strings that are super tight will eventually lead to neck bow.  

The bottom line is the player must first select the pitch they wish fo the open strings, then select the appropriate string diameters (gauges) for that pitch.  This is true for gut, nylon, or metal strings.  We cannot simply buy a set of generic banjo strings and then tune to any pitch we want.  This is absolutely true.

dbrooks - Posted - 12/26/2016:  09:46:44

Wayne (the original poster) has gotten varied opinions here. Perhaps the two videos below will give an idea of what the target should be. I have a Bell Boucher-style banjo and an Eric Prust tackhead banjo. They both respond well to Nygut Minstrel strings and produce a sound similar tyo what you hear in these videos.

Michael Miles: youtube.com/watch?v=vD6rL03jMWI

Hilarie Burhans: youtube.com/watch?v=tplPVBlTtJI

David

John Gribble - Posted - 12/26/2016:  17:00:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Berghan

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Gribble

 

I think we need more information about the banjo. It may not be designed to play in G at all. If it is based on historic models, it ought to be tuned several frets low. My Bowlin with its heavy strings was meant to be tuned to a low D (dADF#A), same intervals as G tuning (gDGBD), but five frets low, or to A, C tuning five frets low. 

---

Hi John,

There is nothing about a the design of a Bowlin banjo, or any other banjo, that determines the pitch.  It is solely a function of scale length (nut to bridge) and the diameter of each string.  Your Bowlin has a pretty short scale compared to the average of banjos made before about 1865.  The average is closer to 26 or 27 inches long.  However, one can find both shorter and often longer scales.  The Bowlin has a scale something like 24.5 inches.  

As an example, at 25 inches scale, if you wanted to tune the first string to D (like a modern banjo) then a nylon string with a diameter of about 0.022 will work well.  However if you try to tune that same string down to A (a fourth lower) then it will not have enough tension.  However if you changed the string to a nylon string with a diameter of 0.028 it will be fine at the lower pitch of A or even B . . . but a 0.028 will be far too tight if the player tries to tune it up to D.  The string might break . . . it will feel too tight and probably sound very strained.  And of course using strings that are super tight will eventually lead to neck bow.  

The bottom line is the player must first select the pitch they wish fo the open strings, then select the appropriate string diameters (gauges) for that pitch.  This is true for gut, nylon, or metal strings.  We cannot simply buy a set of generic banjo strings and then tune to any pitch we want.  This is absolutely true.

---

Tom, I agree and understand. But if our friend has purchased a minstrel style banjo, it is not unreasonable to think that it was designed and set up to be tuned at a lower pitch than G, in keeping with historical practices.

Again, I think we need more information from Wayne to give appropriate advice.

Edited by - John Gribble on 12/26/2016 17:03:18

howbah - Posted - 12/27/2016:  09:33:52

Seems like the kind of question that the person who bought the banjo should ask the person who made the banjo.

Tom Berghan - Posted - 12/29/2016:  14:00:39

The OP's name is Brice and he is 14 years. He has also apparently disappered (Bad Form Brice, but we will over look this as a folly of youth)

If you go to Brice's home page you will see that he has a "Minstrel Banjo" made by Terry Bell. It does not say which model (Terry offers six) . . . but this means the scale is 26 to 27 inches . . . and Terry makes fairly faithful reproductions of early 19th century banjos, and as such the "period tuning" would be either D or E . . . as explained in Briggs and Converse.

Ergo a good set of strings would be as follows:

AQUILA 7B "MINSTREL" BANJO SET
LOW (D or E) TUNING - These strings are made in Italy from a synthetic material called "Nylgut". This set is longer (about 51") and heavier than the "Classical" set. Intended for lower tunings, not likely to survive being brought up to standard G tuning.
1 = .0275
2 = .0325
3 = .039
4 = .028w
5 = .0275

And that Ladies and Gentlemen is the rest of the story.